PCG - Pengana Capital Group

[Sean K]

Hunter Hall International Ltd (HHL) operates an investment management business which manages Australia's largest ethical investment trust, the Hunter Hall Value Growth Trust, as well as the Global Ethical Trust, the Australian Value Trust, the International Equities Fund and Hunter Hall Global Value Ltd (ASX code HHV), a listed investment company.


I had some money in the VGT a while ago but dumped all my managed funds in Jan.

I imagine all the funds are performing poorly at the moment, but not sure if they're outperforming the market or not.

One thing for certain, the market is factoring in a major reduction in their dividend.

Current pe is 6.6 and dividend is 14%!!

Fugly chart.

I wonder if this will be a turn around story at the other end of the recession/depression, or it's bound for the sin bin?

 

[So_Cynical]

Re: HHL - Hunter Hall Limited

I wonder if this will be a turn around story at the other end of the recession/depression, or it's bound for the sin bin?

Well the world didn't end and HHL bottomed like everything else and came good like almost everything else...Hunter Hall suffered a big reduction in FUM during the GFC and cut there dividend by about half the pre GFC amount while still maintaining there 5% pre tax profit charitable donation policy.

I don't want to come off all charitable and ethical etc...i brought HHL today cos i like there business, and there SP was trading close to a post GFC low and if the dividend holds its a 11.5% gross yield, and if the divi takes a little cut it could still end up paying over 10% gross.

For an ethical investment fund manager most of HHL's funds have actually performed quiet well..so i brought a few at today's low of $5.29 (about 20% of today's volume ) and my second fund manager, love these closely held stocks....my chart takes off close to where the chart posted by Kennas ends.

http://www.hunterhall.com.au/
~

 

[So_Cynical]

Re: HHL - Hunter Hall Limited

HHL has announced a capital return/return of capital :dunno: probably at around 20 CPS with the ex date and details to come...see today's ann

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20110119/pdf/41w7yjdrqnzxfw.pdf

(4th-August-2010) i brought a few at today's low of $5.29 (about 20% of today's volume ) and my second fund manager.

And that return of capital announcement was responsible for today share price jump of 3% which was just enough to get my 3 week old sell order filled at $5.77 giving me winning trade number 44 and a profit of 79.1 CPS (14.9%) gross, including the last dividend and franking credits.

As per my "retirement in paradise" plan...kept the profit in and matched it with a similar amount of capital as a long term hold and dividend, franking credit stream...will build into the position at the next significant dip.

 

[So_Cynical]

I entered HHL late last week @ 3.99 ~ my second entry, this time at a price significantly lower than last time....no big deal as the shares im holding from my first entry are 60% free carried anyway and the yield is still ok even with the reduced dividend.

HHL is a good fund manager, FUM will increase at some point in time and on the back of that so to will the SP and dividends...one day.

-----------------

Money is made looking forward not back.

 

[clinta44]

I had some money in the VGT a while ago but dumped all my managed funds in Jan.

How did you find the return in the VGT fund verses the return in the shares?

 

[robusta]

HHL is a good fund manager, FUM will increase at some point in time and on the back of that so to will the SP and dividends...one day.

-----------------

Money is made looking forward not back.

I could not agree more, that is why I bought some today.

 

[Ves]

I could not agree more, that is why I bought some today.

Just remember the events of the last two decades (lots of surplus funds were piled into our markets via managed funds) may not be repeatable. It was a pretty big bull market on the ASX until 2007.

 

[robusta]

Just remember the events of the last two decades (lots of surplus funds were piled into our markets via managed funds) may not be repeatable. It was a pretty big bull market on the ASX until 2007.

Yeah it was, I imagine there will be a lot of smaller bull and bear markets in the future.

 

[So_Cynical]

Just remember the events of the last two decades (lots of surplus funds were piled into our markets via managed funds) may not be repeatable. It was a pretty big bull market on the ASX until 2007.

The next bull wont be exactly the same...but to suggest that there will never be another bull, that the world will never be awash with money looking for a home, that people wont get rich by borrowing money to buy stuff in order to sell it to someone else who has borrowed more money.

Its the only game in town...and the new players at the table are Asians.

 

[Boggo]

Just remember the events of the last two decades (lots of surplus funds were piled into our markets via managed funds) may not be repeatable. It was a pretty big bull market on the ASX until 2007.

I remember those glory days of buy, hold and forget.
Similiar results are available nowadays, just got to work a bit harder with a more hands on approach.

Intelligence is the ability to adapt to change.
Stephen Hawking

XAO Weekly - click to expand.

 

[robusta]

Call me crazy (there are plenty that do) but I read this;

http://afr.com/p/personal_finance/portfolio/deverall_got_devil_of_day_job_QTWZV0Kn8b8yIpbLHwJjMO

and I hope for the price to fall further so I can buy some more.

 

[tech/a]

Robusta
I've had a read.
It tells me HHL is going to alter what it currently does.
There is no telling how it's going to perform.

Why keep buying something on it's way down which hasn't been proven and doesn't look
Like coming good for years?

It's just buy and hope?

 

[So_Cynical]

Robusta
I've had a read.
It tells me HHL is going to alter what it currently does.
There is no telling how it's going to perform.

Why keep buying something on it's way down which hasn't been proven and doesn't look
Like coming good for years?

It's just buy and hope?

tech i would be interested in your answers to a "what if" question.

Lets say you have access to a time machine and can go back up to 5 years in time twice to buy/sell HHL..what month and year would you choose to buy? also please nominate the month and year you would sell.

Thanks in advance for indulging me...5 year chart below.
~

 

[robusta]

Robusta
I've had a read.
It tells me HHL is going to alter what it currently does.
There is no telling how it's going to perform.

Why keep buying something on it's way down which hasn't been proven and doesn't look
Like coming good for years?

It's just buy and hope?

HHL are not going to alter what they are doing, they are just adding a couple of new funds.

The long term performance of the flagship fund, the investment style, and the companies they hold give me confidence HHL will perform well at some point in the future.
I guess the main question that is vexing you tech is why do I buy something when the price is falling? Well the answer is I have no idea nor do I much care what the price does over the next six months. The market is allways looking forward, investment returns might improve dividends hungry investors may snap up shares or more of the same and the share price might fall another 20%. I don't know what will happen, do you?
One thing I am reasonably confident about is HHL will provide a positive return at some point in the future.

 

[tech/a]

tech i would be interested in your answers to a "what if" question.

Lets say you have access to a time machine and can go back up to 5 years in time twice to buy/sell HHL..what month and year would you choose to buy? also please nominate the month and year you would sell.

Thanks in advance for indulging me...5 year chart below.
~

Ill mark up a chart and explain.
Also reply to Robusta.

 

[tech/a]

I guess the main question that is vexing you tech is why do I buy something when the price is falling? Well the answer is I have no idea nor do I much care what the price does over the next six months. The market is always looking forward, investment returns might improve dividends hungry investors may snap up shares or more of the same and the share price might fall another 20%. I don't know what will happen, do you?

I can definitely tell its not turning for any appreciable return.
Having said that.
Right now if you were a punter there is a low risk entry opportunity (Technically)
I've marked it on the chart

Your right I cant see why people with serious money say 312000 shares would sit in a stock which has fallen from $2.85 to $2.60 and dropped $78K in a week. Liquidity is rubbish as well if you wanted to move your 312000 shares you'd be pretty hard pressed average trading is 25 000 ish a day. (I know your not trading these quantities but its the principal and there are those who seemingly do!).---That is just too much risk.---in my view.



So Cynical.
I would have had 3 trades 2 wins and a loss.



Blue are buy points and Red sale points.
I didn't and haven't traded it.

 

[skc]

Why keep buying something on it's way down which hasn't been proven and doesn't look
Like coming good for years?

It's just buy and hope?

Not saying Robusta will or will not be right, but somebody's got to buy it at some stage so the chart will turn and offer the technicals for you to trade.

Since no one trading technicals will buy base on the downtrending chart, whoever is buying must be doing so on fundamentals. All bottoms of trends are printed by FA. They are right some of the time.

 

[tech/a]

Not saying Robusta will or will not be right, but somebody's got to buy it at some stage so the chart will turn and offer the technicals for you to trade.

Since no one trading technicals will buy base on the downtrending chart, whoever is buying must be doing so on fundamentals. All bottoms of trends are printed by FA. They are right some of the time.

Mate of mine a Doctor said to me once.

I love hypochondriacs every now and then they get it right!

But for the hypochondriacs they are happy they are wrong
its one in the bank---sweet victory---with the knowledge
that one day they may well be right!

Like the trader who sees price fall and declares--great I can buy more at a cheaper price!
Then when that occurs and price keeps falling----Great I can buy more at a cheaper price!

Since no one trading technicals will buy base on the downtrending chart,

Thats not true.

Some charts display good low risk entries at bottom of channels like HHL now. (Among other analysis).
The difference with most well heeled techies is they will have a stop and or move a trade as quickly as possible to break even and wont ride it down or buy more
at another point. If the price goes against them.

 

[notting]

Some charts display good low risk entries at bottom of channels like HHL now..

That's where everyone should be happy! Most rewarding.

 

[GG999]

I entered HHL late last week @ 3.99 ~ my second entry, this time at a price significantly lower than last time....no big deal as the shares im holding from my first entry are 60% free carried anyway and the yield is still ok even with the reduced dividend.

This is something I haven't yet understood about share investing - the idea of 'free carry'. Why potential capital gains in different shares have different values to investors depending upon the original prices that they paid.

Surely the 'free carried' shares are no less important to you than any of your other shares (?)