Paying for Information and Education

[beamstas]

Some people are just talented at teaching/coaching

Look at golf, afl, sports like that

Example; Sheedy, was a pretty good player but boy was he a great coach.

It takes something special to be a good trader
If takes something special to be a good educator

Some people are gifted with both qualities, why not use them both?? I don't see why there is the mentality of "Those that can do, and those that can't teach", because some people actually can do both!

 

[Sean K]

Some people are gifted with both qualities, why not use them both?? I don't see why there is the mentality of "Those that can do, and those that can't teach", because some people actually can do both!

Yes, I totally agree.

You could 'do' and 'coach' at the same time. There are still a lot of Captain-Coaches out there, and it only disappeared from VFL level a few years ago, but it has disappeared. Could we see it again?

The disparity I'm seeing in this discussion is between traders who teach, and people who could trade who have decided to teach.

The origin of this thread seems to be about a black-box-magic-trading 30 min a day system, or like it, and the presenter is the guru who should be trading!

Or, they have people trading their system for them..

The original post was:

Hello to all. Im a novice when it comes to trading and not sure where to start or what to look at. I have looked at some companies that will sell you a program, trading platform and access to their live trade calls for Commodities, Currency and Eminis and the returns seem great if you want to believe it. I have no problem with paying for education or information as long as it is effective. Has anyone brought from these companies, is it a good thing for the novice or should they be avoided. Thanks

Maybe we're off topic a tad.

 

[tech/a]

Kennas

Your right.
There is a deep seated need for everything.
Even if you dont "Need" to do it.
I need to Ride because I love it and there isnt a phone.
The missus cant catch me and no one knows where I am.

T/H.
Whats good value and from whom?
My idea/yours Kenna's and others will all look at the same thing and express a vastly different view.

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

Kennas

Your right.
There is a deep seated need for everything.
Even if you dont "Need" to do it.
I need to Ride because I love it and there isnt a phone.
The missus cant catch me and no one knows where I am.

Tech,
It is you're as in you are......

You don't need to ride. You CHOOSE to ride to satisfy your need.

You need to ride your bike because the car is at the garage. And always look to your left and your right.

Kennas,

Rich people should give back to society even if they make people pay for it at times.

I support capitalism and see nothing wrong with people educating for profit, but only if they have the capacity to do so and are not scamming.

Communism and socialism suck and bring about poverty.

Cheers..

 

[Mr J]

Rich people should give back to society even if they make people pay for it at times.

I support capitalism and see nothing wrong with people educating for profit, but only if they have the capacity to do so and are not scamming.

Communism and socialism suck and bring about poverty.

Why should the rich give back? They owe as much to the general public as a lion does to a gazelle. I also find it interesting that you suggest the rich should give back, while criticising socialism.

Communism and socialism suck? The systems don't suck at all, the significant examples have been extremely poor implementations of these systems. They've worked fine at family and small community level for thousands of years.

 

[ozbecool]

I agree with all those above who say that:
- educate yourself first - there are plenty of books
- be very careful with subscribing
As for books: there are many different approaches to trading (speculative, trend followers, value investors, chartists and the mixes of those). You have to find out first what is your own psychological profile, how much time you are prepared to spend, what is your time frame (short, medium or long term), your risk tolerance, why you want those 'yet to be earned' profits from trades, can you wait when trend goes against you, etc etc - a lot of things to consider BEFORE you start trading - this is why I think you should get a few books, read them and then you would know that you are past the point that 90% people who buy/sell shares don't actually do. When YOU read books and then pick stocks for BUY it is your decision, otherwise you just follow somebody else and often you might not know WHY are you buying a particular stock

I personally thing that a good starting point are (there are many good books, but for beginners - do not start reading too complex material):
- "EXPLODING THE MYTHS - What your broker doesn't know or won't tell you" by Frank Watkins (2003 and 2008 editions), ~ $AUD 35
- "INVESTORS GUIDE to selecting shares that perform", by R.Koch, rev 4, 2007
- "The Australian Stockmarket: A Guide for Players, Planners ...", by R.Bennetts, 8th ed, 2006, I think ~ $AUD 20
NOTE: may be there are newer editions, I do not know

Subscriptions might be good but only do that if other people (whom you trust) tell you that it worked for them. Otherwise do not pay any money for those $1k+ per year sites (There is one that I know - they want ~ $5.4k per 3 years; what they say sounds OK (eg. money back guarantee) but the problem is that nobody I know heard about them and I was not able to find any FEEDBACK on the internet.

There are services like eg. RIV..N REPORTS that are purely advice based (SELL/BUY recommendations; cost around $600-$800 / yr), but I tried them some time ago and their performance was not better than my picks. But services like that might be helpful as the FIRST SIEVE of what you might CONSIDER to buy.

 

[beamstas]

Yes, I totally agree.

You could 'do' and 'coach' at the same time. There are still a lot of Captain-Coaches out there, and it only disappeared from VFL level a few years ago, but it has disappeared. Could we see it again?

I'd sure like to
The likes of Buckley, would have been a great player/coach.

His speech to those Vic Country kids at half time was bloody amazing, he sure knows the game and imo he could have led collingwood quite well.

Lets see if he ends up at the roos.

 

[ozbecool]

Paying for Information and Education - mistakes

May be this would be a valuable lesson for some ...
~ 12 years ago I entered Australian sharemarket as a novice and I paid dearly for my 'naked' approach : I DID NOT EDUCATE myself at all. All I saw was the price of the stock. I read a little bit about the company, invested way too much money in ONE company (I diversified but not deep enough) and ... that company ... did not go bust, but now is worth ~ 15% of my initial investment 12 years ago !!! So I made MOST of the beginners mistakes at the same time - you might say that the way I entered the market destined me for a failure.

But the ROOT of my mistakes was that I did not read at least a few books (to get different perspectives) that would explain basic available strategies and most common 'traders' mistakes.

Now 12 years later and some books read (~ five cover to cover and a few more focused on particular issues) : I trade with profit - I do not use any subscription and this way I invest those 'yet to be subscription fee' money in stocks and multiply them - slowly at times but multiply. I do not use any sophisticated program - I just found the mix of approaches (from literature) that suits me and I follow them RIGOROUSLY. Of course strategy keeps evolving - new information from the net articles and books helps to improve the system that I use.

 

[tech/a]

Re: Paying for Information and Education - mistakes

May be this would be a valuable lesson for some ...
~ 12 years ago I entered Australian sharemarket as a novice and I paid dearly for my 'naked' approach : I DID NOT EDUCATE myself at all. All I saw was the price of the stock. I read a little bit about the company, invested way too much money in ONE company (I diversified but not deep enough) and ... that company ... did not go bust, but now is worth ~ 15% of my initial investment 12 years ago !!! So I made MOST of the beginners mistakes at the same time - you might say that the way I entered the market destined me for a failure.

Holding your loss destined you to failure.

But the ROOT of my mistakes was that I did not read at least a few books (to get different perspectives) that would explain basic available strategies and most common 'traders' mistakes.

No the root of your mistake was holding your loss.

 

[ozbecool]

Re: Paying for Information and Education - mistakes

Holding your loss destined you to failure.



No the root of your mistake was holding your loss.

No : the root was the lack of education, holding to the stock was the consequence of the original mistake

 

[tech/a]

Re: Paying for Information and Education - mistakes

No : the root was the lack of education, holding to the stock was the consequence of the original mistake

Oh
Education taught you??

I'll guess.
Not to hold your losses!

 

[motorway]

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah

Do I want medical treatment that matches my Psyche ?
done by someone how ever unqualified !!

Do I need to only traverse bridges engineered the same ?

Do I want to fly in a plane that feels good ?..

The last thing anyone needs is something to match their
Psycholgical profile.. The sick would get sicker

What they need is something THAT WORKS

THAT IS REAL...


What works WORKS
Everything else is feel good illusion...

motorway

 

[McGoldrick]

I have been day trading shares for about 18 months now and after a shakey
start I am now doing OK. I find it easier to be profitable in todays markets than when it was bull, bull, bull. I want to trade options. Can any one recommend a
good beginners book.
McGold

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

I also find it interesting that you suggest the rich should give back, while criticising socialism.

Thank you.

 

[Timmy]

I have been day trading shares for about 18 months now and after a shakey
start I am now doing OK. I find it easier to be profitable in todays markets than when it was bull, bull, bull. I want to trade options. Can any one recommend a
good beginners book.
McGold

McG - have a look around this forum here for the threads about options from WayneL and Sails. This should get you started really well and you should be able to find good reference to option texts in them.

 

[Timmy]

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah

Do I want medical treatment that matches my Psyche ?
done by someone how ever unqualified !!

Do I need to only traverse bridges engineered the same ?

Do I want to fly in a plane that feels good ?..

The last thing anyone needs is something to match their
Psycholgical profile.. The sick would get sicker

What they need is something THAT WORKS

THAT IS REAL...


What works WORKS
Everything else is feel good illusion...

motorway

I think I might get this chiselled into my wall, fantastic.

 

[wayneL]

It is funny how the cost of the course has little relationship to the quality of the material thou

But correlated to the BS in the marketing.

Hahahahah!

Sooooooooooo true!

I would add that people "almost" deserve it. Tell them the truth about trading and they don't want to know at any price. Tell them something completely unrealistic like the secret to making a million dollars by 3:00PM and they'll flock to you and pay thousands.

T
Communism and socialism suck and bring about poverty.

Cheers..

Yes indeed.

Communism and socialism suck? The systems don't suck at all, the significant examples have been extremely poor implementations of these systems. They've worked fine at family and small community level for thousands of years.

That's because you can get away with absolute authoritarianism in family groups and small communities. A modern liberal democratic nation is entirely another matter.

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah

Do I want medical treatment that matches my Psyche ?
done by someone how ever unqualified !!

Do I need to only traverse bridges engineered the same ?

Do I want to fly in a plane that feels good ?..

The last thing anyone needs is something to match their
Psycholgical profile.. The sick would get sicker

What they need is something THAT WORKS

THAT IS REAL...


What works WORKS
Everything else is feel good illusion...

motorway

That's true, but there several approaches that work and several timeframes that people trade in. A persons's psychology will dictate which approach they gravitate to.

 

[tech/a]

I have been day trading shares for about 18 months now and after a shakey
start I am now doing OK. I find it easier to be profitable in todays markets than when it was bull, bull, bull. I want to trade options. Can any one recommend a
good beginners book.
McGold

The New Options Advantage
Caplan
ISBN1-55738-863-6

Hahahahah!

Sooooooooooo true!

I would add that people "almost" deserve it. Tell them the truth about trading and they don't want to know at any price. Tell them something completely unrealistic like the secret to making a million dollars by 3:00PM and they'll flock to you and pay thousands.

You dont have that venue address do you?

That's true, but there several approaches that work and several timeframes that people trade in. A persons's psychology will dictate which approach they gravitate to.

Surely the Market should dictate approach/timeframe!

 

[Mr J]

Hahahahah!
That's because you can get away with absolute authoritarianism in family groups and small communities. A modern liberal democratic nation is entirely another matter.

There's nothing that says a communist or socialist system can't be modern, liberal and democratic. Communism and socialism are both meant to promote an egalitarian society, not to install a dictator and ruling class. What would a proper socialist system look like? Take the wealth of society and distribute it evenly ('evenly' can be defined multiple ways - it's not necessarily an equal share).

 

[wayneL]

There's nothing that says a communist or socialist system can't be modern, liberal and democratic. Communism and socialism are both meant to promote an egalitarian society, not to install a dictator and ruling class. What would a proper socialist system look like? Take the wealth of society and distribute it evenly ('evenly' can be defined multiple ways - it's not necessarily an equal share).

It all sounds nice until the realization that redistribution of wealth involves taking money earned by one person and giving it to another who hasn't, all under threat of violence and/or incarceration.