Patience & Effort with Aboriginals

[roland]

4 Corners tonight on ABC is yet another story on the Australian Government's continued efforts with trying to elevate the social standing of the younger Aboriginals in our country.

I am continually surprised at the dedication and persistance of the education, social, medical and police professionals that bend over backwards to try and get these people into a better life. Not to mention the untold millions of dollars that are invested in infrastructure and funding.

The highlight in most of these documentaries is the extreme hinderence by the older aboriginals through family violence, alcohol abuse and lack of "law and order" in allowing their younger generations to gain education.

Ruined by a seemingly never ending pool of social welfare there seems to be little incentive to gain education and jobs. Welfare cheque days produces close to zero school attendance on that day.

What's the solution? Should the government give up on the Aboriginals?

 

[Julia]

What's the solution? Should the government give up on the Aboriginals?

No, of course they can't. Not necessarily because they care, but if they were to do so it would wipe out much of their voter base.

 

[Wysiwyg]

What's the solution? Should the government give up on the Aboriginals?

There is no easy solution but it has to start with breaking the cycles of blame, self pity, alcoholism, low self image, rejection and others.Indeed in all social groups.One would have to walk a mile in their shoes to really understand though.

 

[Nyden]

What's the solution? Should the government give up on the Aboriginals?

Yes. I know I have

They've been given countless opportunities, formal apologies, we've recognized them as a critical part of our culture / heritage ... yet they still shun us, & still refuse to assimilate / join up as productive members of society.

I say we scrap their payments, scrap their benefits, & adopt a more simple approach - help those that help themselves (offer help to those that want it, not just genetically-inherited perks)

... Either that, or we "steal" another generation; better to have an orphaned child, than an abused one. Best way to force-assimilate them really ... just remove the next generation from their abusive outback communities.

 

[2020hindsight]

well I'd say that that 4 corners doco illustrated the scale and variety of the problems they face,

in that some kids loved going to school and learning - and some were totally unreliable, truant as often as not.

I personally think we'll progress a lot faster since "sorry day" - and I'm confident that we are heading in the right direction, albeit much slower than desireable.

patience - good choice of title there roland

PS not cheap granted - kids at boarding schools cost $70K per year compared to $16K at high schools I think they said .

 

[kenny]

What are the authorities hoping to achieve? Equivalent living standards and state of health/education? What do the communities want themselves? Are there any comparable situations globally that we can model from a successful outcome?

Like our poor health care system, throwing more money at the problem does not necessarily solve it unless the funds are directed with an endgame in mind and with targeted, quantifiable results & goals.

Regards,

Kenny

 

[Julia]

On "PM", ABC Radio, this evening it was stated that the government is going to set up a "Healing Fund" in the wake of The Apology. At the time Mr Rudd delivered The Apology, he stated clearly that to apologise did not mean there would be any compensation. There were, of course, the predictable rumblings of disagreement on this point.


Now, it seems, this Healing Fund is going to provide full medical, dental and funeral expenses for the lifetime of all members of the stolen generation.

On this evening's programme, an aboriginal spokeswoman said the Healing Fund was not sufficient.
She said what she wanted was the money, to be spent as she saw fit.


I'm unsure how it will be administered as to date there doesn't seem to have been any conclusive list of the people who would qualify. Various estimates of the numbers involved have varied quite widely.

Perhaps there will be more detail to come, but at this stage, it does seem like another of Mr Rudd's frequent 'thought bubbles'.

 

[Spaghetti]

I live in an area with about 12-15% aboriginal/torres Strait Islander population, mainly employed and paying private rentals or have home ownership. Some, though few, in public housing. No problems associated with some settlements. No pub or club so no alcohol problems. So essentially just normal people. Not really noticeable, just normal area to live. Yet the values of properties are lower than any other comparable area due to their presence. I hear "stories" about my town from non-residents that are simply not true and based purely on prejudice.

So yes we do offer all sort of assistance but those that do meet the challenge are hit head on with racism. Frustrating if you do whatever is considered the right thing just to be a victim anyway.

I see it constantly, a person would need very high self esteem to deal with petty prejudice they would have to face on a daily basis. Seeing so many have low self esteem it would be so difficult for them to move forward.

The only way to my mind is if we started to appreciate what they do well and take more interest in their heritage, instead of focusing on the negatives all the time. If you pick on anybody all the time, bring up their faults and their failures they will end up with mental health issues. It is normal human reaction.

 

[2020hindsight]

Twiggy to the rescue

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/08/03/2322574.htm?section=justin

Rudd commits to Indigenous training plan
Posted 10 hours 56 minutes ago
Updated 9 hours 29 minutes ago

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has committed the Government to providing training places for a scheme to create 50,000 jobs for Indigenous Australians.

Australia's richest man and the head of Fortescue Metals, Andrew Forrest, is behind the plan for the corporate sector to create the jobs.

He has asked the Government to support the proposal and Mr Rudd has told Channel Nine he is happy to help.

"We'll do so in a practical way by providing the necessary training places to support those Indigenous Australians to make them training ready to go into those companies which Andrew Forrest will help us bring about," he said.

"It's a practical program, it's a big plan on his part, very tough goals he's set for himself, but we're prepared to support his enterprise.

"In all, the Australian employers that I've met are they ready for that challenge, do they have the heart for that challenge, do they have the ability to meet this challenge? The answer's absolutely yes."

Noel Pearson optimistic (thrilled) .......

A working group has been set up to oversee the scheme, including Noel Pearson, who says he is thrilled with the idea.

"I've hung around corporate Australia for a number of years, I've heard a lot of goodwill from people but I've never been actually sure about whether those doors are openable from the outside," he said.

"Andrew [Forrest] assures me - and I'm sure he's correct about this - that these doors are there for the opening."

 

[spartn]

Hi Guyz

I personnally believe the government should only help the Aboriginals that want to be helped. I was on the Train coming home from work and their were 2 scruffy and drunk Aboriginals on it drinking alcohol, yelling out stuff like white people should have to pay rent to the Aboriginals to live in Australia. I was too tired to get into an arguement with them, but a guy on the other side of the carriage full on went ape sh*t, saying something like "what! isn't the money you get from the dole, and the amount you make from prostituting your children enough".

A few people on the train actually starting laughing. But if you have been reading the newspapers in the past year it is actually true.

I don't really want to start an arguement with you guyz, but! is the main reason that Aboriginals are in the state that they are in at present because the whole 'Lost Generation' started by the government 'Failed'.

Think about it the aboriginals wanted an apology because of the lost generation, but now they want help.

And when you see what happened to the African Americans in the early 60s in the American Southern States. And now just 45 years later there is a big possibility the next President of the USA is African American.

I am just tired of the whole Aboriginal thing, mainly for the fact they are still complaining of what happened a 100 years ago for the reason they are in the position they are in now, even though there are alot of Aboriginals who have made something of their lives.

Spartn

:viking:

 

[shmi]

They are aborigionals, they are people, they are Australian. So they should be helped but only as much as any other Australian. People arent thankful for what they have, because im pretty sure if Aust was a spanish or chinees colony, things would be a lot worse for them.

 

[white_goodman]

On "PM", ABC Radio, this evening it was stated that the government is going to set up a "Healing Fund" in the wake of The Apology. At the time Mr Rudd delivered The Apology, he stated clearly that to apologise did not mean there would be any compensation. There were, of course, the predictable rumblings of disagreement on this point.


Now, it seems, this Healing Fund is going to provide full medical, dental and funeral expenses for the lifetime of all members of the stolen generation.

On this evening's programme, an aboriginal spokeswoman said the Healing Fund was not sufficient.
She said what she wanted was the money, to be spent as she saw fit.


I'm unsure how it will be administered as to date there doesn't seem to have been any conclusive list of the people who would qualify. Various estimates of the numbers involved have varied quite widely.

Perhaps there will be more detail to come, but at this stage, it does seem like another of Mr Rudd's frequent 'thought bubbles'.

itll get to the stage where the aboriginals keep demanding and demanding stuff and the current soft govt will keepp giving and giving.... then the rest of Astralia will kick up a storm and they will get all benefits taken

 

[Tink]

Protesters shut down city centre and warn more chaos to come

Rallies held to protest against threat of remote community closures in Western Australia

The protest, the third since March, shut down part of Melbourne's CBD, bringing traffic to a standstill.

There were similar protests in Perth, Darwin, Adelaide and Alice Springs as well as in Wellington, New Zealand.

Demonstrators voiced their concerns in what they called a “proud expression of Aboriginal sovereignty’’ and a signal to governments not to scale back support services in remote *Aboriginal communities.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...re-chaos-to-come/story-fni0fit3-1227330925461

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-...ssible-closures-of-remote-communities/6437046

 

[pixel]

Protesters shut down city centre and warn more chaos to come

Rallies held to protest against threat of remote community closures in Western Australia

The protest, the third since March, shut down part of Melbourne's CBD, bringing traffic to a standstill.

There were similar protests in Perth, Darwin, Adelaide and Alice Springs as well as in Wellington, New Zealand.

Demonstrators voiced their concerns in what they called a “proud expression of Aboriginal sovereignty’’ and a signal to governments not to scale back support services in remote *Aboriginal communities.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...re-chaos-to-come/story-fni0fit3-1227330925461

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-...ssible-closures-of-remote-communities/6437046

And in this age when instant globalization applies to everything, including "news", those protests have been reported Overseas as well, including http://www.theguardian.com/australi...igenous-community-closures?CMP=share_btn_link

 

[Tink]

Interesting article.

A legal change of no worth

Seven years ago, the Rudd government apologised to the Stolen Generations. As the recently released Closing the Gap report indicates, this achieved nothing for Aboriginal living standards.

The unemployment rate for Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders is still three times the national average, and Aborigines overall have shocking health outcomes and die at younger ages, especially in rural and remote areas.

You’d think the politics of the empty gesture would have fallen out of fashion by now. But no; if anything, things are getting worse. They now include the ridiculous claim that recognising indigenous Australians in the Constitution will somehow improve their health and welfare.

I’ve had to sit through speeches in the Senate asserting this, and have read newspaper articles making the same argument. And yet there is not a shred of evidence to support the claim. The national fondness for political symbolism became evident with full force when I made a speech in the Senate opposing constitutional recognition. I argued that it would be conjectural, divisive and contrary to the rule of law.

It was the last point that generated the most vitriol. My argument was that we should all be equal before the law, while constitutional recognition is a campaign for the specific recognition of a specific people. Apparently a lot of people think otherwise.

Prior to 1967, the Constitution included the power to make laws for “the people of any race, other than the Aboriginal race, in any state, for whom it is deemed necessary to make special laws”. We now recognise this as racism. What made it racist was not just that it had been interpreted negatively, but that it allowed people to be treated differently because of their race.

If the Constitution is to be changed, it should be to remove the remaining “race power”, which allows parliament to make laws for “the people of any race, for whom it is deemed necessary to make special laws”, and Section 25, which allows the exclusion of whole races when drawing up electorates.

No constitution should permit governments to make laws that apply to certain races and not to others. It is racist, and amounts to a standing invitation to engage in abuse of power. But I don’t kid myself that removing those sections will have any effect on Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander health or welfare. The Constitution may be an important document, but individuals needing special assistance should be treated equally before the law, whatever their race. Australia must be colour blind when it comes to reducing poverty and disadvantage.

My party has no policy relating to Aborigines. Our policies are simply about people. We think the property rights of remote and rural Aborigines should be upgraded to the same as for everyone else, allowing them to fully participate in the general economy.

In the book Recognise What?, Anthony Dillon writes movingly of those Aboriginal people who have enjoyed success in wider society without constitutional recognition.

“Do not segregate yourself from society,” Dillon advises. “Treat others with respect and see them as equals; pursue an education (whether it be formal or informal); make valuable contributions to the community in which you live; be a role model for others to emulate; make healthy choices; and adhere to a personal moral code.” This is good advice.

Constitutional recognition will not “close the gap”. In fact, it is not likely to achieve anything positive at all.

David Leyonhjelm is Liberal Democrats senator for NSW.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/a-legal-change-of-no-worth/story-e6frg6zo-1227349533222

 

[qldfrog]

I fully agree we are all australian and should be treated the same.
If not we de facto cement the current situation and the atrocious future of some of these kids while fattening a few leaders and parasite organisation and lawyers

 

[Tisme]

I wonder how those in jobs with Fortesque will fair if the company is wound up.

 

[MrBurns]

An interesting point of view on the Adam Goodes latest controversy from an ABC forum.

If you want equality, then stop pointing out what makes you different.

 

[trainspotter]

Adam Goodes is a dead set legend in my book. I have been to a Sydney training session and he was the first to lead his team mates around the park and the first to sign autographs with the fans after the training session and was the last to leave. Brett Kirk had to come and drag him away from the fans.

Collingwood president Eddie McGuire, who made an on-air comment in 2013 that Goodes should promote the King Kong musical, called the act "strange" and during post-match analysis on Fox Sports said: "It is quite aggressive, let's be honest."

On Saturday McGuire said he was "offended" that a journalist told Goodes the Collingwood president called the war dance "violent and aggressive".

"That is the greatest misquote and lie of a situation I've ever heard put to somebody," McGuire told radio station SEN.

"It was an absolutely misleading and mischievous quote to Adam, trying to get a rise out of him. It's disgraceful."

McGuire said he would call Goodes to clarify his comments and ensure the Swans star had not taken offence.

Fox Footy commentator Barry Hall told viewers that his former teammate's actions "weren't great".

"I understand he's very proud of his heritage and where he's from and that's fine. But I really don't like to see this," Hall said.

In the aftermath of the dance, Goodes' Wikipedia page was vandalised with a string of monkey photos and references to him being a "sniper" on the football field. The page has since been restored and locked from anonymous editing.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/on-ya-...dam-goodes-postgoal-war-dance-20150530-ghd1bh

Interesting to note Eddie McGuire said that Goodes should promote the King Kong musical implying he was an "ape" after he was called an "ape" by a Collingwood supporter. Apology accepted Eddie.

Interesting to note Barry Hall king hit Brent Staker and denied he did anything wrong and then has the balls to say that Adam Goodes actions "weren't great". Apology accepted Barry.



Now this does not mean that I condone what he has done. To me it is an act of aggression to the fans who pay his meal ticket with gate takings. The AFL has come out and banned racial and religious vilification both in the stands and in the game. Adam has shrugged it off saying it is part of his culture and likened it to the Kiwi HAKA. As this is the first time he has done this it is a bit rich in my opinion that he is prepared to dish out to the football fans that this is part of his culture. If he did this after very goal he kicked since the day he played then yeah ... maybe. But to bring it out in the "Indigenous round" smacks of hypocrisy.

Can't wait for the "Cultural round" to see what Brendon Ah Chee is going to do (His ancestors were Australian Aboriginal, Chinese, Dutch, Scottish. His great-grandfather was Chinese.)

 

[SirRumpole]

Adam Goodes is a dead set legend in my book.

+1.

To me this latest incident is another example of the inclination of the media to make mountains out of molehills so they can have something to talk about so as to justify their overblown status as "commentators".

I doubt if Goodes is the sort of person to do such a war dance without extreme provocation and its interesting that there doesn't seem to be much focus on the actions of the Carlton fans who no doubt gave Goodes a razzing.

This sort of thing should be quickly forgotten, I got a good laugh seeing the incident live, to imply some deeper meaning to it is a waste of time.