Paid Parental Leave (PPL)

satanoperca · 20 August 2013

Re: Paid parental leave

tech/a said:
Well that's all well and good.
But you wont be able to find a rental property for love nor money.
You won't see an investor for miles.
Those that can afford to positively gear will be in the position
Of naming their price due to shortage of stock.

This is a little disappointing, thought you would know better.

NG does not add to the construction industry or new builds as clearly has been shown.

As for the rental argument, yes you will, people will need somewhere to rent and I am sure there will be investors will to offer them a home for a price.

What it really means is that prices would have to drop significantly for investors to be interested in a real yield and not one subsidized by the taxpayer.

As NG doesn't add to the rental stock to the degrees claimed, NG should only apply on new builds, which would immediately see an uptick in the construction sector, just what the RBA is looking for, would add to supply of rental properties, abet not in an area the gen Y would want but hey.

Cheers

Julia · 20 August 2013

Re: Paid parental leave

sptrawler said:
I can't help but wonder if Abbott will dump it, saying that he is bowing to public pressure. This would then blow a hole in Labors argument and help Abbotts economic image.

I agree with drsmith that this is unlikely during the campaign. Abbott seems genuinely obsessed with this ridiculous, unfair policy.

It's also worrying that, apart from the policy itself, he is demonstrating such obstinacy even in the face of such widespread condemnation of it. Shows pretty poor judgement on his part imo.

MrBurns · 20 August 2013

Re: Paid parental leave

Julia said:
I agree with drsmith that this is unlikely during the campaign. Abbott seems genuinely obsessed with this ridiculous, unfair policy.

It's also worrying that, apart from the policy itself, he is demonstrating such obstinacy even in the face of such widespread condemnation of it. Shows pretty poor judgement on his part imo.

I don't think he has much choice Julia, if he relented now it would be backflip Labor spin from here on.

sydboy007 · 20 August 2013

Re: Paid parental leave

MrBurns said:
After the election the gloves are off but right now the Libs have to play the game, it seems being truly honest isn't an option any more. The ends, however, justify the means,

Honesty is a choice, not an option.

If Abbott chooses to be dishonest, so be it, but don't try to make out he somehow has been forced into it!

Have a read of The Ethical Brain by Michael Gazzaniga. It describes quite well the "rationlisations" our politicians go through to justify what they do.

satanoperca · 20 August 2013

Re: Paid parental leave

Firstly, I apologize if I am going over old ground.

But this is a ridiculous policy, just like the child care rebate and before someone tears my head off, I have a young child and are a single father, who has need child care and after school care.

If some sort of controls had of been put in place, like weighting house price increases in the inflation calculations and try to curb the massive RE price increases and debt binge over the last 20 years, none of these schemes would be required.

Property or should I say shelter has got so expensive you now need dad to work, mum to work and soon we will have the children working, tried outsourcing the dog as a drug sniffer but kept returning to my shed, all to support the RE industry and namely the banks.

Our pollies need to grow some balls.

Cheers

drsmith · 20 August 2013

Re: Paid parental leave

sydboy007 said:
Honesty is a choice, not an option.

Labor's record in government leaves this as a bigger problem for them than it does for the Opposition.

That's why Labor's consistently behind in the polls.

sydboy007 · 20 August 2013

Re: Paid parental leave

drsmith said:
Labor's record in government leaves this as a bigger problem for them than it does for the Opposition.

That's why Labor's consistently behind in the polls.

To a degree I agree with you. The ALP have only themselves to blame for where they are.

I just find it objectionable to say the ends justify the means as some members in this forum seem to believe. That ends at up with the 'It became necessary to destroy the town to save it'

I'd just like to see the same yard stick applied to both parties, which doesn't seem to happen very often.

Direct Action and PPL are signature Abbott policies. It amazes me that the ALP have taken a far more market approach to both issues. At least with the current PPL scheme from labor companies that have their own more generous schemes still benefit from that. Under Abbotts scheme that is no longer the case.

Even the Greens seem to be more market based with their way of handling climate change. Admittedly they tend to go too extreme, but they do seem to believe it's best to set the goal and let the market achieve it.

drsmith · 21 August 2013

Re: Paid parental leave

sydboy007 said:
To a degree I agree with you. The ALP have only themselves to blame for where they are.

I just find it objectionable to say the ends justify the means as some members in this forum seem to believe. That ends at up with the 'It became necessary to destroy the town to save it'

I'd just like to see the same yard stick applied to both parties, which doesn't seem to happen very often.

Direct Action and PPL are signature Abbott policies. It amazes me that the ALP have taken a far more market approach to both issues. At least with the current PPL scheme from labor companies that have their own more generous schemes still benefit from that. Under Abbotts scheme that is no longer the case.

Even the Greens seem to be more market based with their way of handling climate change. Admittedly they tend to go too extreme, but they do seem to believe it's best to set the goal and let the market achieve it.

With regards to ends justifying the means, the comparison is Labor destroying the town to save it's own club. For the electorate as a whole, it's going to be a question of rating one side relative to the other.

I won't comment directly on other members, but in a broad sense, acknowledgement of something does not necessarily equate to acceptance.

While I don't agree with either of the Coalition's Direct Action or PPL leave policies, the characteristics of Labor's carbon tax policy in particular was not a product of sound economic management. If it was, the price itself would be far lower than it is now. It was an ends justifies the means outcome for Labor in terms of gaining office with the Greens and Independents.

Calliope · 21 August 2013

Re: Paid parental leave

sydboy007 said:
Direct Action and PPL are signature Abbott policies.

Yes both policies are stupid, unnecessary and wasteful of billions with negative cost/benefits, especially Direct Action, now that the Global Warming industry is in continuing decline.

http://joannenova.com.au/2013/08/the-day-the-global-warming-death-spiral-began/

sails · 21 August 2013

Re: Paid parental leave

drsmith said:
...While I don't agree with either of the Coalition's Direct Action or PPL leave policies, the characteristics of Labor's carbon tax policy in particular was not a product of sound economic management. If it was, the price itself would be far lower than it is now. It was an ends justifies the means outcome for Labor in terms of gaining office with the Greens and Independents.

I don't agree with Direct Action and PPL either, but it's the choice between that or how many more hundreds of billions in debt under labor plus uncontrolled borders at massive cost while the people we are supposed to be helping keep missing out. And an ETS that, by treasury's predictions, could go to $38 per tonne in a few short years.

I feel we have to put up with the least damaging policies offered by the coalition. There are no other choices. Voting for minor parties generally sees their preferences go to one or the other major two.

So it's a choice of more of the same for 6 years or a change with a couple of policies I don't like but better chance of improving the country.

Julia · 21 August 2013

Re: Paid parental leave

Agree with all the above, again it comes down to the least worst alternative which is pretty depressing.

Radio National this morning spent quite some time following up on Robert Gottleibson's observation yesterday about the loss of franking credits and therefore that shareholders will be helping to pay for the Coalition's PPL.
This will affect a lot of people, not just retirees.

Might be worth some emails to local federal candidates?

drsmith · 21 August 2013

Re: Paid parental leave

sails said:
I feel we have to put up with the least damaging policies offered by the coalition. There are no other choices. Voting for minor parties generally sees their preferences go to one or the other major two.

So it's a choice of more of the same for 6 years or a change with a couple of policies I don't like but better chance of improving the country.

That's essentially it.

In relation to so-called carbon price, we need to go back to the drawing board with the starting point being the effective price from current subsidies for renewable energy such as solar. I hope the Libs direct action is an early victim of the budget reality.

------------------------------------------------------------------

drsmith said:
One obvious group of losers initially at least will be shareholders that receive franked dividends. The franking rate will obviously reduce with the corporate rate, but corporate profit growth with the associated company tax cut will be largely offset by the new levy.

The above issue with the PPL scheme corporate levy has now hit the mainstream media.

SHAREHOLDERS will take a $1.6 billion annual hit from Tony Abbott's parental leave scheme by losing tax breaks on their dividends, sparking furious calls last night for the Opposition Leader to reveal the details of his plan.

Escalating the fight over the controversial policy, experts urged the Coalition to release the policy costings it has withheld for the past four days to clarify how companies would pay a 1.5 per cent levy to fund the scheme.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...-plan-introduced/story-fn9qr68y-1226700927225

Logique · 21 August 2013

Re: Paid parental leave

PPL - so there are to be different classes of babies then.

Some babies are worth 6 mths @ $150k pa, while others are only worth 6 mths @ $600 per week, and still others must sit in detention centres for months, or years @ $zero.

The class system is alive and well if you are a baby.

Not a good look for conservative party leader with three daughters of marriageable age.

burglar · 21 August 2013

Re: Paid parental leave

Logique said:
PPL - so there are to be different classes of babies then.

Some babies are worth 6 mths @ $150k pa, while others are only worth 6 mths @ $600 per week, and still others must sit in detention centres for months, or years @ $zero.

The class system is alive and well if you are a baby.

Not a good look for conservative party leader with three daughters of marriageable age.

Hi Logique,

The three daughters (of marriageable age) probably pressganged him into it!

drsmith · 21 August 2013

Re: Paid parental leave

burglar said:
The three daughters (of marriageable age) probably pressganged him into it!

Perhaps he (TA) is trying to avoid the dowry.

banco · 21 August 2013

Re: Paid parental leave

Logique said:
PPL - so there are to be different classes of babies then.

Some babies are worth 6 mths @ $150k pa, while others are only worth 6 mths @ $600 per week, and still others must sit in detention centres for months, or years @ $zero.

The class system is alive and well if you are a baby.

Not a good look for conservative party leader with three daughters of marriageable age.

Surely shoring up the class system is one the duties of a conservative party leader?

Julia · 22 August 2013

Re: Paid parental leave

Already the rorts of Tony Abbott's PPL are being worked out. A caller to RN's "Life Matters" program, a small business owner, said he thought it was a great opportunity for him and his wife.

His wife presently takes no part in the business. She stays at home, doing something entirely unrelated.
The caller said they would 'put her on the books' at $150,000 p.a. for a while before they wanted to start a family, she would duly conceive, and whacko, they get the full parental leave payment at the highest rate.
There was at no stage any notion of her actually doing even an hour's work in the business

tech/a · 22 August 2013

Re: Paid parental leave

Julia said:
Already the rorts of Tony Abbott's PPL are being worked out. A caller to RN's "Life Matters" program, a small business owner, said he thought it was a great opportunity for him and his wife.

His wife presently takes no part in the business. She stays at home, doing something entirely unrelated.
The caller said they would 'put her on the books' at $150,000 p.a. for a while before they wanted to start a family, she would duly conceive, and whacko, they get the full parental leave payment at the highest rate.
There was at no stage any notion of her actually doing even an hour's work in the business

Easy way around that is an average of taxed earnings over the last 3 yrs.

drsmith · 22 August 2013

Re: Paid parental leave

Julia said:
Already the rorts of Tony Abbott's PPL are being worked out. A caller to RN's "Life Matters" program, a small business owner, said he thought it was a great opportunity for him and his wife.

His wife presently takes no part in the business. She stays at home, doing something entirely unrelated.
The caller said they would 'put her on the books' at $150,000 p.a. for a while before they wanted to start a family, she would duly conceive, and whacko, they get the full parental leave payment at the highest rate.
There was at no stage any notion of her actually doing even an hour's work in the business

I would have thought he would have been doing that as a means of income splitting.

Ves · 22 August 2013

Re: Paid parental leave

drsmith said:
I would have thought he would have been doing that as a means of income splitting.

He probably is. It just shows up on her ITR as a dividend or a trust distribution, rather than a salary. All he is doing is manipulating the taxable earnings to gain access the PPL scheme. The net tax effect across all entities and individuals would be the same, but she could still potentially get the PPL benefit.

Our tax system is broken - those who earn a salary / wage and don't run a business probably have no idea what goes on, but the amount of legal tax reduction schemes open to those with business structures would be alarming to them if they did.

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