OZL - Oz Minerals

[frogfuzz]

I think its rather obvious as to which way the price will go.

According to a Sydney Morning Herald article: "The Herald contacted OZ several times, both yesterday and on Tuesday, seeking comment about why the debt maturity was listed as 2012 in its accounts released in August, but has yet to receive a response" (Yet now they are trying to refinance the debt???) http://business.smh.com.au/business/oz-under-financing-cloud-20081203-6qqk.html. (I do not endorse or take responsibility for material in the hyper-linked site) The article says ASIC is now interested in Oz. Wonder why?

How do you burn almost $1 bill in 12 months? It's insane. I think Mr $8 Mill Heggarty could answer that question, as could the current CEO who has done nicely out of the merger.

Why are dumb shareholders (read myself) standing for this? After the merger of my ZFX shares into this "Oz", it meant that my "buy in" was at $3.5 (funnily enough around the "independant valuers" valuation of this wonderful stock). Now it's .55 cents. I'm sure many OXR shareholders feel the same.

Lets all watch the "perfomance bonuses" get issued soon on that performance! IMO seems to be a history in Oz of big payouts for pathetic share price "returns". Management of Oz make our politicians performances look good, and cheap to keep.

If you haven't guessed - yes I own this fantastic stock and (foolishy) believed the re-assurances of management and their statements.

 

[random]

So the price of zinc goes down. I don't like it but i can live with that!
So the price of copper goes down. I don't like it but i can live with that!
So the price of nickel goes down. I don't like it but i can live with that!
The share price drops. I don't like that much either but i can live with that to.

That the information that the directors of the company put out as to the actual position regarding cash at bank and true debt situation was a lot of crock. Thats the part that really gets to me.
The cash we supposedly had sitting in the bank was a major decision in me retaining my shares for so long. But guess what! Now you see it now you don't! Woof - its gone.
Now i really don't like that and i guess i have to live with that to.
Come on ASIC.
Do something!
I'm really not a vindictive person but surely charges should be on the cards here regarding disclosure.
I mean lack of!!!

 

[random]

Don't get me wrong.
I think it would be great time to buy into OZL.. when we can again with all the spare cash i have.....don't have.......really do have ...... ah tricked ya!

No serious. It would be a good time to buy in its just that we will have to wait a year or two before the sp comes good again to benefit. For all those who are looking on and don't have any shares at the moment its a great deal.
We still have our resources, our mines which are very efficient and that is great.
We just have to wait for the people of the world to want to buy it all again in the quantities and prices that make us shareholders happy.

 

[nikemi]

So the price of zinc goes down. I don't like it but i can live with that!
So the price of copper goes down. I don't like it but i can live with that!
So the price of nickel goes down. I don't like it but i can live with that!
The share price drops. I don't like that much either but i can live with that to.

That the information that the directors of the company put out as to the actual position regarding cash at bank and true debt situation was a lot of crock. Thats the part that really gets to me.
The cash we supposedly had sitting in the bank was a major decision in me retaining my shares for so long. But guess what! Now you see it now you don't! Woof - its gone.
Now i really don't like that and i guess i have to live with that to.
Come on ASIC.
Do something!
I'm really not a vindictive person but surely charges should be on the cards here regarding disclosure.
I mean lack of!!!

Yeah, and even if ASIC does bring proceedings like in the case with FMG/Forrest in 2004 (that is still ongoing), everyones shares will be worth NIL and there will be nothing to claim by the time it gets to finality.

It is such a joke for the average you and me that thinks we are making an informed decision. Turns the whole investing/trading think in nothing more than a gamble!!!

 

[GumbyLearner]

The Directors of OZL have an obligation to disclose the financial position of the company to shareholders.

While I have witnessed the relentless short-selling on many trading days this year maybe ASIC have been inundated with complaints this year.

Only time will tell what they will do with this one!

:bs:

 

[auswede]

How do you burn almost $1 bill in 12 months? It's insane. I think Mr $8 Mill Heggarty could answer that question, as could the current CEO who has done nicely out of the merger.
.

Have they adjusted the figure due to the drop of the Aussie dollar? Has fallen 30cents odd.
Have they adjusted the figure due to the drop of the Aussie dollar? Has fallen 30cents odd.

 

[gilbo]

Looks like we are witnessing the latest defence mechanism to ward off short sellers - declare a trading halt! Whereas the roll-over of loans is definitely a tricky business in this current environment, I'm not sure that trading halts are supposed to be used to provide a protective envelope around the company so that they can wait for some good news to tell the market. The market is (now) fully informed about the situation so why can't shareholders trade?

 

[dandyjac]

Things just seem to get worse for Oz minerals

http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/showAnnouncementPDF.do?idsID=00912095

 

[Ashsaege]

Things just seem to get worse for Oz minerals

http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/showAnnouncementPDF.do?idsID=00912095

so what might that mean for old 'ZFX to OZL' shareholders? that they are going to sue OZL which will be funded my IMF?

 

[Prospector]

so what might that mean for old 'ZFX to OZL' shareholders? that they are going to sue OZL which will be funded my IMF?

Count me in! If it is to be funded by IMF then of course people will join. Might make others more inclined to disclose appropriately too.

 

[gfresh]

.. I think it's a fair case. I am pretty down on the management of OZL throughout this whole thing assuring everybody everything was "all fine"

Not much $ left now for me, but would nice to get some back.

I notice they haven't yet put up an "information pack" as they have for the other stocks they are chasing. What a charming list

http://www.imf.com.au/

 

[electronicmaster]

Things just seem to get worse for Oz minerals

http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/showAnnouncementPDF.do?idsID=00912095

OZL Management issues is an understatement. They seemed to have lots of money action before (or even without) saying anything. This is not a good sign at all

Well.... Time to buy more Silver.......

 

[Prospector]

I notice they haven't yet put up an "information pack" as they have for the other stocks they are chasing. What a charming list

Yeah, I just ordered an information for MFS from them coz those buggers got me too! Surely this will be the last time.

 

[Eloise]

Hyperthetically, what would happen if OZL was bought out by BHP or a larger company? what would happen to the current OZL shares people are holding?

 

[chops_a_must]

The Directors of OZL have an obligation to disclose the financial position of the company to shareholders.

While I have witnessed the relentless short-selling on many trading days this year maybe ASIC have been inundated with complaints this year.

Only time will tell what they will do with this one!

:bs:

How on Earth were they able to come out and say they had "no net debt" in September, then all of a sudden have a billion in debt???

Were they recording it off balance sheet?

If so, who was lending that to them, for they surely would have known that that was illegal. If it was an Australian bank, what are the ramifications of them lending to someone knowingly recording it off balance sheet? Because that bank may turn out to be in some serious doo doo.

Also, what other companies are the directors on the boards of? As I have a feeling they may prove to be incredibly lucrative shorts.

 

[GumbyLearner]

Too many Chiefs and not enough Indians!

Just look at the votes of the merger GM.
Lots of shareholders voted against the Board of ELEVEN! :screwy:

 

[Aussiejeff]

Too many Chiefs and not enough Indians!

Just look at the votes of the merger GM.
Lots of shareholders voted against the Board of ELEVEN! :screwy:

But, the Board Of Eleven hold the largest packets of shares and can easily vote down any dissent from the masses of "minority" shareholders.

Sounds a bit like a Communist system of governance if you ask me!

Still, Capitalists LOVE Communist ideals if and when it suits them....


With most major companies operating in this fashion (ie where mega-powerful cadres of board members with massive majority shareholdings can vote themselves whatever they like with almost total impunity) with the complete blessing of current governments and regulators (federal and state) I don't see the situation changing significantly for the better anytime soon.

Good luck


aj
(don't hold)

 

[gilbo]

How on Earth were they able to come out and say they had "no net debt" in September, then all of a sudden have a billion in debt???

Were they recording it off balance sheet?

If so, who was lending that to them, for they surely would have known that that was illegal. If it was an Australian bank, what are the ramifications of them lending to someone knowingly recording it off balance sheet? Because that bank may turn out to be in some serious doo doo.

Net debt is the difference between cash & cash equivalents and interest bearing liabilities. At 30th June 2008 Oz Minerals (which at that time was just Oxiana with a name change; the merger with ZFX didn't happen until 1st July) had about $750m in interest bearing liabilities and $100m in cash. However, ZFX was carrying around $1.1bn in cash & equivalents and only around $150m in liabilities - so put the two together and that should be $1.2bn cash and $0.9bn liabilities - hence no net debt.

However, the new entity on 1st July still had the $0.9bn of liabilities that is presumably the debt needing to be rolled over, so it is possible for there to be a net cash position (i.e. a "no net debt" position) but with a substantial liability position.

Presumably the cash could be used to pay the borrowings, but that would leave very little working capital and so the preference would be to roll the debt over. I suppose.

 

[GumbyLearner]

Yet more bad news

Noticed that a Chinese group are trying to get a 51% stake of Perilya.

I wonder what OZL will sell if they cant obtain refinancing.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,24780879-36418,00.html

DEBT refinancing negotiations for Australian diversified miner Oz Minerals are unlikely to succeed, which will force the company to pursue asset sales

The Melbourne-based miner said one lender who was in negotiations to refinance two debt facilities has pulled out.

The Melbourne based miner were in negotiations to refinance two debt facilities, one amount of $US420 million ($640 million) and one to $US140 million ($212 million).

One leader who was drawn to the agreements, whose deadline was December 29, has pulled out.

"One of the prospective new lenders has advised OZ Minerals that it no longer wishes to participate in the refinancing (...), in light of the above, completion by December 29 is now highly unlikely," the company said in a statement.

The company has been approached by a number of parties in respect of several assets, and all of these are at various stages of due diligence.

 

[crayfish]

Yet more bad news

Noticed that a Chinese group are trying to get a 51% stake of Perilya.

I wonder what OZL will sell if they cant obtain refinancing.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,24780879-36418,00.html

DEBT refinancing negotiations for Australian diversified miner Oz Minerals are unlikely to succeed, which will force the company to pursue asset sales

The Melbourne-based miner said one lender who was in negotiations to refinance two debt facilities has pulled out.

The Melbourne based miner were in negotiations to refinance two debt facilities, one amount of $US420 million ($640 million) and one to $US140 million ($212 million).

One leader who was drawn to the agreements, whose deadline was December 29, has pulled out.

\\\"One of the prospective new lenders has advised OZ Minerals that it no longer wishes to participate in the refinancing (...), in light of the above, completion by December 29 is now highly unlikely,\\\" the company said in a statement.

The company has been approached by a number of parties in respect of several assets, and all of these are at various stages of due diligence.

Has anyone heard the rumour that BHPB is after Prominent Hill? Not sure what the deal is but I heard it today from a good mate of mine.

Another guy I know says that OZ just sacked the guy who made Sepon work. The guy with all the connections in Laos...Apparently he had too much to say to the board...Did someone mentoin communism?! FWIW Sepon is currently this companies mosy profitable operation from what I can tell. (I am surprised they haven\\\'t shut down Century yet which MUST be running at a loss!). Have they shot themselves in the foot yet again? This is all scary!