wayneL
VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!
- Joined
- 9 July 2004
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Magdoran said:Anyway, you can get exercised with a bull call (less likely, and easier to deal with, but a nuisance just the same).
Mag
Magdoran said:Hello Wayne,
Re your post #101: Yeah, didn’t we cover the risk of assignment in posts #90 and #100?
Magdoran said:Sure, assignment is more likely to happen to bull put spreads than for bull call spreads, and said this too. Each strategy has a trade off, and this is one of them. That’s why I suggested how to manage this kind of strategy, and made the comment about this pitfall.
Now, if the market moves strongly against you, any directional position is going to suffer, isn’t it? Different strategies will fare differently, but most will take a hit in a strong adverse move. If you decide to enter this strategy you should do so knowing the maximum loss, and how to manage the position.
Magdoran said:Re assignment – can’t happen if you’ve closed the position, and you’d know immediately if you were assigned, you’d have the shares in your account and a big red number. It’s happened to me, and it’s no big deal. That’s why you should get set with a good deal of premium, to reduce the risk, and offset any assignment activity if it occurs.
Magdoran said:Don’t forget, you still have the open long puts for protection, and they will have a value if you buy the shares on assignment day to fulfil the contract, or you could also exercise the long puts if required.
Magdoran said:So, you raised a good point here Wayne, perhaps you would be kind enough to outline the mechanics of how assignment works, and your experiences on either side of it?
This would be really interesting and would certainly like to understand more how they work (especially our local MM's) and would love to hear of any ways you've found to get a better advantage - sounds great!...Sorry, but there are so many aspects to trading, and perhaps we could look at how market makers work, and talk about the different players there like optiva and susquana, and timberhill to name a few…. There are all sorts of tricks to getting set at an advantage, and observing the market makers and other players is key to this, but this is a whole topic in itself. ...
Magdoran said:Anyway, it’s “Wayne’s World” here! Hahaha
Must away!
Magdoran
Magdoran said:Wayne: Meaning: "it's your house (thread) - your'e the moderator - not trying to steal your thunder".
Magdoran said:What's going on here - we've gone from cordial to less cordial for some reason. Am I missing something?
sails said:Here's an interesting article on debit vs. credit spreads by one of the Optionetic's instructors - so obviously they don't all agree on this issue. I believe the author was previously a market maker: http://www.optionetics.com/articles...idNo=14840&intChoice=0&mType=3&mSearch=kramer
When a trader is contemplating buying a call spread or selling a put spread at the same strike prices he/she is undertaking a major waste of time as they are the same thing – period. Let me clarify before people's diastolic pressure go through the sphygmomanometers. I am stating that the two spreads are accurately priced with no arbitrage potential, of the same month, same underlying, etc. “How can that be, Kramer”? I really don't know, and I am still trying to figure it out, but it is so.”
Just a couple of questions. I'm motoring through those options books you recommend Wayne, some great stuff. Read the covered call section in the Mcmillan book twice now, and am a third through the Natenburg book. Should be doing study, but am enjoying them too much.
Just on delta neutral strategies... what happens if you get an early excercise whilst using this strategy? And is this still profitable? If the market thinks there are a lot of people using this, will it start hunting certain levels? A lot of people have claimed they were ruined because agents knew positions and were targeting them, didn't they?
There are different ways of looking at this, all via synthetic relationships. Realistically there are two instances where you are in danger of early assignment on short . ITM puts and calls where there it is about to go ex-dividend and there is a financial benefit for the call owner.
With euro style options (index) this is not a problem.
Let's say you are constructing an iron condor. You will have a short ITM put which could get exercised early. The answer is to construct an all call condor. People like to do irons for the credit, but at the end of the day there is not much difference, unless there is an issue with the spread. They are synthetically equal.
On the call issue, just watch for the ex div date is the obvious thing.
If you do happen to be assigned. It's a matter of re-evaluating where your at, and adjusting to suit. Lets say your assigned the short put in an iron condor. Now you have a leg of long stock. You can keep the stock and sell a call against it, and you have a synthetic short put again.
Will the market hunt levels? I don't know, but you should have a defence strategy in place.
On stocks, I don't go straight fro the condor. I'll do a credit spread and go delta neutral and start hedging with stock, roll, flip, or whatever if it goes pear shaped.
And is this strategy even possible on Oz stocks? Considering in a lot cases, you would need several 100k worth for a lot of stocks.
Is there any way I can write puts, with the intention of being comfortable with being assigned, for a $50 dollar stock in Oz, without needing 50k? Only say, wanting 5k of it? Not really. Not without the risk of the 50k position that I can think of.
Also, is there any easy reference to the full list of optionable stocks on the ASX? And which ones only settle every three months, and each month.
What is the full cost in brokerage on IB, from writing and purchase, to excercise/ assignment?
I don't know these two as will be different to US. Sails will know.
Does the fact that ASX options are in lots of 1000, rather than 100 lead to the illiquidity problems in Oz options? And do you think they would be better off changing that?
I reckon so. But don't have any evidence to prove it. But a lack of MM competition has a lot to do with it as well.
Sorry for the questions. Just very enthusiastic atm. Cheers.
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