Options courses

[novice]

I know there are a lot of education out there and all claim to be the best and blah and blah.

I was wondering if anyone here has gone through any of the education systems?

1-optionetics

2-Kim Riley

3-Safety in the Market

what are your opinions?

kind regards

 

[money tree]

+ 4.

 

[novice]

mm???

 

[sails]

Novice, I have done Optionetics in the last couple of years and also Safety in the Market about 8 years ago so not up to date with their current courses, however I think they are still teaching the same ideas. Will post my opinions later as a bit busy now. Haven't done Kim Reilley's so can't help there. Bottom line is I feel the courses were too expensive and overall did not give good value for money spent.

 

[wayneL]

Novice, I have done Optionetics in the last couple of years and also Safety in the Market about 8 years ago so not up to date with their current courses, however I think they are still teaching the same ideas. Will post my opinions later as a bit busy now. Haven't done Kim Reilley's so can't help there. Bottom line is I feel the courses were too expensive and overall did not give good value for money spent.

.....and I doubt there is anything in the courses that you couldn't find out from a few books for much much less $$$$$.

I haven't done it, but Money Tree's course could be interesting though.

 

[money tree]

the problem with most of the $3000 courses is that they pretend there is some magic secret formula for making money from options, and they tell you its so easy a child could do it.

Trading options IS NOT easy.

These courses often regurgitate old option strategies that can be read about in a lot of books. The difference is, they will sugar-coat it....

At the end of the day they teach you another way to pick direction. 97% of people cant do that.

 

[wayneL]

the problem with most of the $3000 courses is that they pretend there is some magic secret formula for making money from options, and they tell you its so easy a child could do it.

Trading options IS NOT easy.

These courses often regurgitate old option strategies that can be read about in a lot of books. The difference is, they will sugar-coat it....

At the end of the day they teach you another way to pick direction. 97% of people cant do that.

Then theres the ones that say covered calls are the holy grail!

Want to go on a two month holiday to Europe? Just write a few covered calls! Too Easy!

 

[wayneL]

the problem with most of the $3000 courses is that they pretend there is some magic secret formula for making money from options.

Yeah, don't tell you that the secret formula is selling $3000 courses on options! LOL

 

[sails]

Novice, the following is my opinion and understanding based on the time I attended Optionetics:

Positives:
- Professional seminars with excellent instructors
- Life time free repeats of the 2 day seminars anywhere in the world
- Large number of attendees which is good for meeting other traders
- Good content, but found out later where it was lacking in certain practical areas.
- Discussion boards and lots of free articles on their site which, but they are also open to the public. The “ask the traders” section are mostly their instructors.

Negatives:
- High cost for the 2 day only to find it is just the beginning. Then there is the ICT course, the masters ICT, the Advanced course, the masters Advanced, etc. All are several thousand each. The advanced course is only held in the US, so factor in fares and accommodation as well. Check out the list of courses and prices in US$ on their website http://www.optionetics.com/products/seminars/store_seminars.asp

- Costly software and subscription services are demonstrated throughout the 2 days – then you are offered “special” deals (which are genuinely discounted deals compared to normal retail prices) in the last hour or so of the second day which were only applicable for that day.

- Be aware that they can change their software supplier with no warning – this has just happened. Those who own Advanced Get now find that ProfitSource is the software of choice and seems like all future Optionetics courses may only be using this latest software. Too bad for those who just recently purchased Advanced Get. Some unhappy customer comments can be found on the Optionetics discussion board.

While most students that have attended the advanced courses have glowing reports about the event itself, when asked if it has actually made a difference to their profit, the answers are usually along the lines of “er… well… no… not really”. Have heard of the occasional one that is doing OK, but out of the several I have met this is not the case. I have only done the 2 day course so have no first hand knowledge of their other courses.

One other thing regarding the 300% return or money back guarantee (if it is still the same) – I believe specific conditions do apply so the refund may not be quite so simple. I have attended two x 2 day seminars over the last couple of years and found that making money with option strategies has been very difficult and has not produced the steady income that we were looking for.

Yes, we got sucked in by the slick marketing, wonderful testimonials and our need for income. By the end of the 2 days, you are rationalising with yourself that, after all you are buying a business, so you really should get the proper tools (the software, subscriptions, etc). However, the problem is that you are going in to a business that has a huge failure rate and takes a lot more than education to make it work.

Hope this helps – let me know if you have any more questions.

 

[Synapse]

Hi Novice,

It's great that you are taking the time to do your own research before committing to any particular Option Trading course...

I personally know over 20 graduates of one of the courses you have mentioned, and you might be surprised to hear that only 1 of them managed to achieve consistant profits for a number of months after completing the course. Recently, though, they had a situation occur where a single trade failed badly and cost them most (if not all!) of their profits they had made up until that point in time. Ouch!

My opinion: I suspect that the courses marketed for thousands of dollars fail to give an accurate enough portrayal of what can go wrong when trading Options. Furthermore, it seems that their claims of "easy money" are often exaggerated and unlikely to be achievable by the majority of their attendees. (It makes sense, doesn't it, that if a promoter charges a lot for their course, then they have to make it sound particularly good for anyone to be interested in paying for it?!)

The disturbing part of all of this, is that I have personally noticed first-hand that most people are more interested in chasing fantasies, rather than knowing all the facts about what they are interested in.

Which of the following do you think most people would choose?

1) An expensive and "professionally" run course, revealing the "secrets" of trading for a living by spending just "minutes a day" with virtually "no risk"; OR

2) An inexpensive guide that explains how Options work, without making any claims of easy or guaranteed profits, but requires the reader to think for themselves and be responsible for their own trading decisions.

Despite what anyone says, the actions of most people appear to demonstrate that they think choice 1 is the most appealing. Yet, most people end up losing money trading!?

Ask anyone who's been in the market long-term (let's say AT LEAST 3 years) to tell you about their trading experiences, and their response usually isn't very glamorous. These people will tell you that trading takes a lot of discipline, careful money management, dedication and a significant amount of time (especially in the early days) to determine what approach actually works for them and to plan their trades. Furthermore, most have read many Option Books, spent hours studying Pay-off diagrams and also backtested multitudes of trading systems & strategies...

Here is one simple fact about Options: For every Contract traded, there must always be another party involved in the transaction taking the opposite side. Whatever profit one party makes, the other party is losing. In isolation, Options are simply a way of transferring wealth from one person to another. It would be impossible for everyone in the Option's Market to all profit simultaneously.

Does it seem strange that someone who is successfully trading Options would wish to share their exact trading system with you, knowing that this could potentially lead to a situation where their "successful" system will no longer work due to an eventual lack of participants in the market that are NOT using their system? Furthermore, does it seem strange that they would feel a need to share their winning strategies with you, if it was so easy to generate their own profits consistantly? And why would they need to create a live seminar environment to share their teachings? Couldn't it just be written in a book, or distributed via the internet as an EBook for example?

Wouldn't it be tragic if many of the Option Trading Courses on offer were based on one (or more) of the following factors:

a) A method of introducing more people into the market, encouraging trading in a manner which gives the presenter/promoter more trading opportunities by trading a different system to what is being taught.

b) A method of generating income for the presenter/promoter, as they understand some theory, but are unable to personally achieve the results that they are claiming are so easy to attain.

c) Offering a course which has little more going for it than simply flipping a coin to make trading decisions, but making it seem sophisticated and then counting on the fact that most people would blame themselves, or be too embarassed, or just have too much pride, to talk about their losing trades with others.

d) Not revealing how all traders are disadvantaged with frequent trading, due to the continuous brokerage charges gradually eating away at the wealth being transferred from one participant in the Option's Market to another. (Without some kind of "edge" to your trading, trading Options long-term will most likely ultimately lead to losses. Ooops! I bet that's not something anyone wants to hear!!).

... Ok, so this all probably sounds a bit gloomy by now. But that's not really my intention. The point I'm trying to make is that being a successful Option Trader is not necessarily an automatic outcome just from attending a seminar. In fact, attending some of the seminars on offer could reduce your chances of achieving success!

In my experience, trading Options is an ongoing, evolving process, where many of the most important aspects of it were not revealed to me without experiencing a lot of "real-life" lessons along the way. It seems that characteristics such as my level of motivation & discipline (and also passion for what I am doing), have become more important than where I source my knowledge. Indeed, all the knowledge in the world is of no benefit, if it is not applied in some useful way.

I suggest being very careful not to get too caught up in the hype used by many presenters/promoters of Option trading seminars/courses. Very few people even recover the costs of the course, let alone go on to make a full-time living out of it. Some end up much worse financially and would have actually been better off reading a book or two to see if Option Trading is something that really was of interest to them. Believe it or not, trading Options isn't for everyone!

One other point: I have heard of at least two seemily reputable seminar companies that have very strict policies in place which make requesting a refund very difficult. I suggest checking out any conditions imposed on issuing refunds before handing over any of your money.

Whichever way you choose to go from here, I wish you all the best with your pursuit of knowledge and achieving your financial goals...


Kind Regards,

Jason.


P.S. What I have written is simply my opinion as at the time of writing. No part of this post should be considered as any form of endorsement, disparagement or investment advice.

 

[money tree]

excellent post Synapse!

I would add that trying to make money from options when you are a novice is like getting in the ring with the heavyweight champ. You cannot realisticly expect to take money from the professionals. they are there to take money from you! If they are smarter, more educated, better informed, more experienced and better funded than you, you must have rocks in your head if you think you can beat them at their own game.

You really need the experience and education (as a minimum) if you want to play this game. And I got bad news for ya: these seminars dont tell you the good AND the bad.

For example:

Many seminars claim 'covered calls' produce 4-8% a month with little risk. The truth is, covered calls retain 95% of the same risk as a naked position, and the annual return is improved by only around 5%.

If you want the truth, go with a smaller operator.

 

[wayneL]

If you want the truth, go with a smaller operator.

I totally agree. But most people don't seem to want the truth. They seem to be happy to be spun a sugar coated yarn. They want to be told they can turn their $1,487.98 (all that's left after paying the educators) into $1,000,000 by next week.

I often go to the free intro seminar of these clowns, just to observe the salesmanship and a bit of mischief making.I once met a guy at on of these, who had forked out $10k to one of the above mentioned concerns... and was considering the $6,000 course on offer.

How much did he have to invest now that he had paid for education? ... $0.00!!!!!!!! The six grand was going to go on the never never, and he'd have to save up for trading capital.

And he was wearing one of those silly grins as if he had just joined Amway...SHEESH!

I guess that's why the smaller operators are smaller and will stay smaller....less bullsh.., less hype, expectations are realistic....less customers!

Still, if I was running an education business, that's how I'd do it, even if it meant staying small. After all, a real trader trades! All the rest should just be a sideshow.

Cheers

 

[captsunlight]

Hi Folks
New here and I have also done the optionetics course I thoroughly enjoyed it and learnt a lot, I had read numerous books prior to attending and the course was like a light going off in my head.
I must be one of those who need it graphically explained I guess.
Was it value for money I think so.

Happy trading

 

[SuperTed]

Now the key test is if you can make money using what you learnt in the course.

Did they talk you into buying the software??

 

[happytrader]

Hi there

Option courses abound and so do extremely profitable paper traders. Also a lot of these people selling courses don't actually trade or are yet to be profitable. So ask them straight up do they trade and are they profitable?

The absolutely best way to learn to trade options is to beg someone with real results to allow you to sit in and observe them in action. Might be a little difficult but grovelling is a lot cheaper.

Cheers
Happytrader

 

[imaginator]

I have been to Optionetics etc.
I think these educators trying to teach the public about buying options are really smarties.

How many people really make a lot of money from buying options?
U place a bet, u got to hope the price is going to hit, plus the timing must not be too late or it will expire.

My opinion, u know why they are teaching us how to buy options and how good it is blablabla?
Because they are the one making easy money by writing/selling those options.
When u sell an option, u get the money first, it may or may not get exercised.
If doesn’t get exercise, they still get to keep their stock, AND the option money!
If it does get exercised, they sold their stock (usually at a better price than they bought initially), AND the option money!

Now, now

 

[Magdoran]

Fully agree with money tree, Sails (Margaret), Synapse (Jason), and Wayne.


I found myself nodding in agreement right the way through reading Synapse’s articulate and comprehensive post. It says it all.

Margaret tells it like it is from the inside... and money tree succinctly gets to the core points.

Add Wayne’s sagacious stamp of approval (from the crypt! Ha!) - What more do you need?


Magdoran

P.S. Only just saw this thread… nice to see such well answered responses.

 

[Hopeful]

Speaking of options seminars, have I got a treat for you!

Here are some FREE and immediately-available seminars. It is the easiest way to get the basics stamped into your brain - they get to the core quickly. Reading books from cover to cover is taking me a relatively long time (I'm reading ebooks not paper ones BTW), but just click here and there and walaa - a seminar on your screen, I'm addicted to these things!

I'm yet to spend one cent on options education yet my learning curve is very steep at this stage. Donations accepted for this information, PM me for my bank details (only the stuff that folds please, nothing that jingles), cheers!

http://www.888options.com/seminars/webcasts.jsp

http://www.iseoptions.com/education/webinar.aspx

My broker, IB, also has some webinars, but you might need to be a client. Check your own broker's website.

 

[Prime]

Then theres the ones that say covered calls are the holy grail!

Want to go on a two month holiday to Europe? Just write a few covered calls! Too Easy!

Funny you should say that ....

I do write covered calls (and naked puts) ... I DO make very good money from both ... and I am going on a 3 week trip to Europe next year!

Did you do the same course as me?

 

[wayneL]

Funny you should say that ....

I do write covered calls (and naked puts) ... I DO make very good money from both ... and I am going on a 3 week trip to Europe next year!

Did you do the same course as me?

Genius is a bull market.

Stupidity is not realising it, but I'm sure you do.