On the wagon...

Hi all, I'm about to enter the market and am keen to trade on a regular basis. I have $10K that I will look to spread across 5 stocks initially. Can anyone recommend any trading platforms that could possibly assist in my analysis and decision making processes? I've heard there are some very useful tools out there but would like to draw on others experience to ensure I get off on the right foot. Thanks!

georgebell said:

Hi all, I'm about to enter the market and am keen to trade on a regular basis. I have $10K that I will look to spread across 5 stocks initially. Can anyone recommend any trading platforms that could possibly assist in my analysis and decision making processes? I've heard there are some very useful tools out there but would like to draw on others experience to ensure I get off on the right foot. Thanks!

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You need to spend minimum $5000 on each stock otherwise its not worthed

From that post I assume you don't have any experience and therefore will lose money. You will try this and you will try that, thinking there must be a way. There are not a lot of people who trade shares and there is good reason why. Most people lose but you will be encouraged to try because the smart money needs more new players with delusions of grandeur, not to mention the brokerage fees you churn. Be clever and buy fundamental based quality shares and look at holding for the longer term. Research thoroughly.

But you will try trading anyway because you think you can and will be set up by the professionals who will gladly take your hard earned when you try.

Oh and if you buy .... buy in a bull market.

georgebell said:

Hi all, I'm about to enter the market and am keen to trade on a regular basis. I have $10K that I will look to spread across 5 stocks initially. Can anyone recommend any trading platforms that could possibly assist in my analysis and decision making processes? I've heard there are some very useful tools out there but would like to draw on others experience to ensure I get off on the right foot. Thanks!

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What kind of decision making process?

Fundamental analysis? May be Comsec research or Lincoln indicators.
Technical analysis? Some charting package is needed.
Tossing a coin? Here, take my $2 coin.

If you want proper help and information you need to elborate on what you are looking for.

:chimney Put you money in a term deposit, and ask santa to bring you a copy of the Intelligent investor, by Ben Graham

Tysonboss1 said:

:chimney Put you money in a term deposit, and ask santa to bring you a copy of the Intelligent investor, by Ben Graham

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That is getting close to giving financial advice there champ,

are you a qualified financial adviser Tysonboss1?

explod said:

That is getting close to giving financial advice there champ,

are you a qualified financial adviser Tysonboss1?

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I hardly think a book recommendation is giving financial advice ... do you honestly believe someone should require a diploma to state 'save and learn' to a beginner to the markets ?

RandR said:

I hardly think a book recommendation is giving financial advice ... do you honestly believe someone should require a diploma to state 'save and learn' to a beginner to the markets ?

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Telling you to put money in term deposit is.

You won't get much quality advise here georgebell...play and learn is the only way...

Forums are a good way to learn once you eliminate the BS, so discard 90% of what you read here. Better to lose $10,000 than $50,000 in your first run...

I only have 2 words of advise, research and patience...

RandR said:

do you honestly believe someone should require a diploma to state 'save and learn' to a beginner to the markets ?

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My thoughts exactly

explod said:

Telling you to put money in term deposit is.

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Suggesting That some one keeps their cash safe until they have had time to gain a bit more knowledge on markets is not investment advice,

You don't have to be a driving instructor to suggest that a person leaves their car in the garage until they have had some driving lessons.

Success is all about risk control, you cannot really employ good risk control until you have 20 to 50K to utilize. Really you need a minimum of 100K to do it properly and to justify the investment in third party fundamental research that will make a major difference to performance. Learn good, simple T/A (don't marry the idea), get good fundamental research (it will cost but it will pay) and learn about risk control. With less than 100K you are unavoidably gambling more than investing but it is a stage that you have to survive in order to appreciate what it takes to succeed. Starting with 10K is a real challenge... I know, I started in the markets with 20K and can thank good luck as much as good judgment to have survived the early years of my investment career.

For now invest in education...



PS> Ben cut his teeth in the 50's, todays world is different, the same but different. It is not gospel, it is about performance. Remember this one thing --> The market discounts all knowledge and if you at your level know it then it is discounted. Fade what you think you know, buy your fear and sell your ego pumping successes... fade the fact that YOU ARE THE DUMB MONEY. It will kill you but you will succeed!

Mr Z said:

1, Ben cut his teeth in the 50's,

2, todays world is different, the same but different.

3,It is not gospel, it is about performance.

!

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1, He Retired in the 1950's, He released his text book "security analysis" in 1934 and published his last book in 1970's. He worked on wall street through WW1, the roaring 1920's, the great depression and WW2 and the ensuing Booms and Busts.

2, Thats right, but the investment frame work does not really change over the decades, it's application will alter slowly, but the general idea is the same. The book the intelligent investor is also a great read in financel history, and it will help you understand the market.

3, No, But his work is as close to it as it gets, thousands of investment books have been defunct in recent decades, Some only months after being published, the underlying principles in bens work still ring true.

Yeah I read it... long time ago.

It is by no means all you need to know to understand todays environment.

THIS IS NOT RELIGION & things are different.... even Warren is prostituting himself to stay alive.

Ben lived in a different world and there is a fundamental shift in where value will be derived in the future and where safety is found.

Hey... but what would I know right... young fella?

LOL



Success is about risk control ---> Just focus on that.

Mr Z said:

Success is all about risk control, you cannot really employ good risk control until you have 20 to 50K to utilize. Really you need a minimum of 100K to do it properly and to justify the investment in third party fundamental research that will make a major difference to performance. Learn good, simple T/A (don't marry the idea), get good fundamental research (it will cost but it will pay) and learn about risk control. With less than 100K you are unavoidably gambling more than investing but it is a stage that you have to survive in order to appreciate what it takes to succeed. Starting with 10K is a real challenge... I know, I started in the markets with 20K and can thank good luck as much as good judgment to have survived the early years of my investment career.

For now invest in education...



PS> Ben cut his teeth in the 50's, todays world is different, the same but different. It is not gospel, it is about performance. Remember this one thing --> The market discounts all knowledge and if you at your level know it then it is discounted. Fade what you think you know, buy your fear and sell your ego pumping successes... fade the fact that YOU ARE THE DUMB MONEY. It will kill you but you will succeed!

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Good post as usual Z.

The "fads", the "in thing" is the prime driver today. Its called sentiment.

And from the news, which is known to some prior, the up or down sentiment button is pressed on the computer for the daily, hourly or micro second trades.

Go against the breeze at your peril.

But above all learn and be aware of the playing field, it is dangerous.

IM very HO.

Thanks X!

I'd not really describe Ben as a fad but I would like to know exactly what bond/stock ratio his Aussie devotees are running and what "margin of safety" they are finding where... IMO the reality of todays markets is not quite as simple as back in the day.

Long story short is you need to constantly learn and react to todays reality.

Mr Z said:

1, It is by no means all you need to know to understand todays environment.

2, Ben lived in a different world and there is a fundamental shift in where value will be derived in the future and where safety is found.

3, Hey... but what would I know right... young fella?

4, Success is about risk control ---> Just focus on that.

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1, The intelligent investor is an introduction for the layman, It's not ment to be the "be all and end all", But saying that it ten times better than most of the other crap out there.

2, Well I don't aggree, I think someone how was a fund manager through the great depression and WW2 would have some insights a person could use in this market.

3, I don't know what you know,... But you seem to think you know maore than Warren and Ben, who's combined investment experiance spanned 1914 to the present, and included some of the most feared and earth shattering events.

4, Thats what Ben speaks of the most.

Mr Z said:

1, I would like to know exactly what bond/stock ratio his Aussie devotees are running.

2, what "margin of safety" they are finding where...

3, IMO the reality of todays markets is not quite as simple as back in the day.

4, Long story short is you need to constantly learn and react to todays reality.

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1, His strict Bond/stock ratio is suggested for the defensive investor, I doubt anybody taking the time to read the intelligent investor and security analysis etc. would consider themselves defensive, and saying that In australia you can just use cash accounts rather than bonds

2, you can certainly invest today with a margin of safety.

3, Yeah, the threat of America "Maybe" going into a recession is so much worse than the great depression, and the current Euro crisis is so much worse than the Euro crisis of 1939.

4, Total agree, But you have to working from the the right frame work to begin with. the reason I such Bens work is because in my opinion, It provides the best foundation for the learning process to begin, and it leads the person away from alot of the traps that people so easily fall into.

Tysonboss1 said:

1, The intelligent investor is an introduction for the layman, It's not ment to be the "be all and end all", But saying that it ten times better than most of the other crap out there.

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Big statement... how much exactly have you read?

Tysonboss1 said:

2, Well I don't aggree, I think someone how was a fund manager through the great depression and WW2 would have some insights a person could use in this market.

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Things are fundamentally different now... in many respects. While history may rhyme and there are lessons to be learned that is where it ends.

Tysonboss1 said:

3, I don't know what you know,... But you seem to think you know maore than Warren and Ben, who's combined investment experiance spanned 1914 to the present, and included some of the most feared and earth shattering events.

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Now where did I say that? You obviously have trouble with comprehension young fella! LOL Anywhoo... as I said Warren is prostituting Ben ideals to stay alive these days and Ben is dead and has no idea about current conditions. I would say he'd roll his eyes and be rethinking a number of things if he where 'current'... but we will never know.

Tysonboss1 said:

4, Thats what Ben speaks of the most.

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and what every good trader has known since before Ben ever bought a stock.

Sure he wrote some good stuff... BUT IT IS NOT RELIGION. He wrote of his experience over a hand full of decades during which we where on a relatively stable monetary standard. You seem to CONSTANTLY fail to take into consideration what is happening to the worlds currencies.... this effects everything. Look at asset pricing into the 2008 crisis... tell me how Bens models took account of that environment? Answer... they didn't very well... it was without precedence in his experience!

You are late twenties, have read a few books and seem to think you have it all wired! I am a few decades on from you and have survived in the markets full time for most of them and my message is to you is --> although you may think you have it wired, you (we!) don't! While the teachings of the old masters are very worthwhile reading you very much need to keep learning and applying what you learn to the markets. Going forward the financial world will look NOTHING like Ben could have anticipated or it seems you are expecting, a number of things are going to flip on there heads for various reasons and although we can see broadly what is happening forecasting the details is going to be tough... even for Warren... and we are not on his speed dial!

So I say again... this is not religion... nothing is set in concrete... learn the rules well enough that you can bend them and see when they need to be bent. This is as much the art of interpretation as it is the absolute science of fundamental research.

Anyway just what stock/bond allocation are you running? Have you ever bought a bond? Where are you finding Ben's margin of safety these days? Do tell... I am curious to see how you are applying Ben's knowledge!