New to the stock market: Where do I begin?

[It's Snake Pliskin]

Re: Beginner

Paper trading is like knitting with invisible thread, or playing air guitar, or buying a blow up doll to ....

 

[tech/a]

Re: Beginner

So businesses which compile cash flow projections are just fooling themselves?
Market research is plainly delusionary.

Snake.
Ever noticed how the larger majority grab hold of a "trueism" and become one of the flock---yet those with true success set themselves apart from the flock.

 

[websman]

Re: Beginner

I use Etrade but you might also want to check out IB (interactive brokers)

 

[websman]

Re: Beginner

Paper trading is like knitting with invisible thread, or playing air guitar, or buying a blow up doll to ....

What's wrong with the doll thing???

 

[karmatik]

Re: Beginner

My question back to you would be

How and why?

My answer to the very same question would be NO IF you know HOW and WHY you made the profit.

As far as Im concerned, paper trading would not involve the stress, risk, and the psycholgical factors that you undergo in money trading and the effect of rumours and market sentiment. Surely you would trade with a clearer mind when paper trading and not be as adversely affected by external influence.

Understanding how or why is a matter of experience whether you paper trade or money trade.

When I play Monopoly, my decision to buy hotels/houses to grow my empire is not affected by insurance costs, maintenance, rates, depreciation, inlflation etc etc.

Would you not consider this to be a fair point??

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

Re: Beginner

So businesses which compile cash flow projections are just fooling themselves?
Market research is plainly delusionary.

Snake.
Ever noticed how the larger majority grab hold of a "trueism" and become one of the flock---yet those with true success set themselves apart from the flock.

Tech,

I see considerable differences with paper trading and marketing. I studied marketing and management and would be the first to acknowledge the power of forcasting and setting targets based on projections etc. But trading is different and it's the emotional aspect and discipline aspect that need to be sorted out. Real trading can only do this - once you lose real money it hits home like a tonne of bricks. It's rather like learning an instrument or a craft.

Snake

 

[tech/a]

Re: Beginner

Tech,

I see considerable differences with paper trading and marketing. I studied marketing and management and would be the first to acknowledge the power of forcasting and setting targets based on projections etc. But trading is different and it's the emotional aspect and discipline aspect that need to be sorted out. Real trading can only do this - once you lose real money it hits home like a tonne of bricks. It's rather like learning an instrument or a craft.

Snake

Hmm If your trying to tell me that marketing or better target marketing and targeting a demographic is without emotion and or that carrying out a marketing plan or programme doesnt require discipline-------?????

I can take emotion completely out of the equation for you or any trader.

No it has nothing to do with being a systems trader/user.
It is however a very clear example of stepping outside of the herd of sheep.

Trading with herd mentallity is like playing the drums with a pair of baseball bats!!

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

Re: Beginner

Tech,

Are you able to post without talking down to people?

 

[tech/a]

Re: Beginner

Tech,

Are you able to post without talking down to people?

If you see my posts as talking down to you then your not cut out for trading let alone business.I'll make my point and have without personal attack.
I'm not going to agree with comments I know to be flawed

If I offend you place me on ignore.

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

Re: Beginner

If you see my posts as talking down to you then your not cut out for trading let alone business.I'll make my point and have without personal attack.
I'm not going to agree with comments I know to be flawed

If I offend you place me on ignore.

You don't offend me, far from it, but you need to review your writing style. You are not always right (like me) and need to reassess your stance here on the forum. I can think of many you don't get along with. Maybe I see their points of view.

Please have a nice day, I will.

Snake

 

[tech/a]

Re: Beginner

You don't offend me, far from it, but you need to review your writing style. You are not always right (like me) and need to reassess your stance here on the forum. I can think of many you don't get along with. Maybe I see their points of view.

Please have a nice day, I will.

Snake

The writing style is the way I write,I'm rude and ignorant/arrogant at times---like most I dont suffer fools--- if I'm wrong and its pointed out where I'm supposedly wrong, I'll look at it./discuss it and happy to alter my veiw if worthwhile (in my opinion). If there is a recient example of wrong let me know,I havent seen it bought to my attention.

As for re assessing my stance how is it that you perceive my stance? OR more to the point how do I perceive my stance?
I'll never win a popularity contest and those that I dont get along with here is by mutual choice,Kris,Tree,Batmann and the likes.
I dont have a personal gripe with any of these people but just as I have no input into their lives they have nothing to add to mine.

Frankly the quality of posts on most forums is at best poor.
95% of the time its the blind leading the blind. Un profitable traders discussing with other un profitable traders how they are profitable.

Profitable traders can tell unprofitable traders by how they write/the questions they ask and the explainations they give.

If you want to hear the usual regurgitated guff then just ignore my posts,no problem.
But if one trader can make a consistant profit from my encouragement and examples of sticking their head out of the shoebox---I'm happy.

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

Re: Beginner

The writing style is the way I write,I'm rude and ignorant/arrogant at times---like most I dont suffer fools--- if I'm wrong and its pointed out where I'm supposedly wrong, I'll look at it./discuss it and happy to alter my veiw if worthwhile (in my opinion). If there is a recient example of wrong let me know,I havent seen it bought to my attention.

As for re assessing my stance how is it that you perceive my stance? OR more to the point how do I perceive my stance?
I'll never win a popularity contest and those that I dont get along with here is by mutual choice,Kris,Tree,Batmann and the likes.
I dont have a personal gripe with any of these people but just as I have no input into their lives they have nothing to add to mine.

Frankly the quality of posts on most forums is at best poor.
95% of the time its the blind leading the blind. Un profitable traders discussing with other un profitable traders how they are profitable.

Profitable traders can tell unprofitable traders by how they write/the questions they ask and the explainations they give.

If you want to hear the usual regurgitated guff then just ignore my posts,no problem.
But if one trader can make a consistant profit from my encouragement and examples of sticking their head out of the shoebox---I'm happy.

Well, you have really stood out like GOD on this one.

I don't have any personal problems with you (out of business you probably are a good bloke) and I don't share your arrogant opinions. However, you do standout on this forum and really are pathetic. Saying what you have about most posters is snobbish to say the least.
The blind leading the blind, well maybe you should relearn the English language and answer what people are asking, rather than ranting and giving speeches that mean nothing - but that's your style. Importantly you don't know anything about me, my profitability, my trading knowledge... and some things never seem what they are, or do they?

You want something added to your life, well take a look at your website; it looks amateurish. You are open to constructive criticism aren't you?

And by the way I'll send you a copy of my book when it's out, autographed and all.

Cheers
Snake :goodnight

 

[tech/a]

Re: Beginner

Well, you have really stood out like GOD on this one.



You want something added to your life, well take a look at your website; it looks amateurish. You are open to constructive criticism aren't you?

And by the way I'll send you a copy of my book when it's out, autographed and all.

Cheers
Snake :goodnight

Yes your right.
My office manager did it in 97 I think. Learnt a lot from it around 20000 hits with no search engines really. Still Retaining Wall Construction isnt the sort of industry which gets millions of hits.Having a second newer and shorter one produced now actually. Thanks for the candid reply.

Lookforward to your book---on stochastics no doubt.

 

[brisvegas]

Re: Beginner

Tech for what its worth i think you are the best value on ASF . I have nothing but respect for critical thinkers . keep on keeping em honest

.............. pete

 

[kaveman]

Re: Beginner

Paper trading cannot completely be same as real trading due to the effects of actually having real money at risk, as was said above.
To me it is an integral part of teting a trading system. backtesting is the first step to see if it would have made money in different periods of history, but as the market is always changing, and inded the stocks themselves are changing you need to see if the system can work in the current climate. It also helps with any fine tuning that yu can do with the progress of the teting being slower than backtesting
If a system makes no money in backteting or paper trading how can you expect it to make mooney in real trading? I always look at it that I coould possibly make half the returns, or double the losses, in real trading compared to paper trading to allow for the psychology effects

 

[tech/a]

Re: Beginner

I can take emotion completely out of the equation for you or any trader.

No it has nothing to do with being a systems trader/user.
It is however a very clear example of stepping outside of the herd of sheep.

Trading with herd mentallity is like playing the drums with a pair of baseball bats!!

Thanks Kave some good points.


I'd have thought that those who truely believe this "Trueism" would be champing at the bit to see how they can remove the dreaded emotional roller coaster from their trading!!

Appears then that no body suffers from this affliction---??

How did others over come the emotional side of their trading then?

 

[Happy]

Re: Beginner

Tech/a cannot give anybody any specific recommendations like buy this sell something else, you have to go to Nick Radge for that, and his Chartist or any other licensed adviser if you don’t need good track record as a guarantee of high standard and high success rate.

Not that Tech/a doesn’t have a clue, but he is gagged like everybody else who has no license.

Tech/a comments are golden, and best if we can use them.

If we are successful beyond need of help, lets leave the gems to be picked up by somebody else.


I love paper trading and recommend to anyone.

Have different trading methods mastered for different market and stock phases.
Try different ideas, put them through back testing if you can and above all master them.

When you can do it automatically and have no emotions, just motions, do it with real money.

When you start to double-cross yourself, tinker beyond logic and get emotional, go back to paper trading, get mechanical and try again.

 

[doctorj]

Re: Beginner

I'm a fairly emotional person. Always have been and always will be. When I first started trading and I realised many of my decisions were becoming emotive I ended up using it as an indicator for trades I was on (ie. when I was sold on the fact I was going to make a tonne on a particular trade and should by more, I sold) - that actually worked pretty well. Mentally it took a toll though and it didn't help with the entry, risk and was against letting profits run.

Nowadays I do my best to manage it. If I'm watching a trade, I'll still experience the range of emotions attached to the realisation of the $ effect of the trade. Objectively, I do my best to realise when I'm experiencing these moments and take a step back. Each trade I take, I will write down the entry/exit conditions, reason for the trade etc so during these moments where emotion gets the better of me I reread this and have the discipline not to act.

My motions still can fluctuate with my equity curve. I guess I have gotten past the whole "that won't happen to me" bit after reading about emotions and trading in book after book and I can admit fear and greed can get the better of me. In time I think the times I experience these emotions will become fewer as I take more trades and have the discipline to play by my own rules.

 

[websman]

Re: Beginner

Paper trading sucks. I recommend jumping in with cash, but taking small positions. You have to learn to control your emotions and you can't do this while paper trading. There's a big differnece btween losing money on paper and losing real money.

Webs...

 

[Happy]

Re: Beginner

Well, only if you don’t apply your trading method.

People spend some hours on flight simulator for example, then applying what they learned in real flight they can do it and they can do it well.

But I don’t want to make impression that anybody has to do what I do.