Thanks NBN.
NBN Rollout Scrapped
- Thread starter Garpal Gumnut
- Start date
Thanks NBN.
Well since all the posts of today have argued about the headlines in the Townsville Daily Bulletin, I decided to do some research thorugh Google and I became more confused than ever before. I was hoping to come up with a link which related to the number connected to the NBN and the current cost of installation and whether it was on budget and time.
One economist was adamant the final cost would be $80 billion while others were more conservative down to $8 billion over buget. I could not find acurate figures on the number of houses eligible for connection and the number actually connected as a percentage.
The confusion continues with the final date of completion from 2020 to 2028.
There was talk on google about prices up to $138 depending upon the GB download. There were comments about Telstra's $29.95 monthly fee which allowed 5GB per month. There next plan was for 200GB at $90 per month.
Further comments were made about the connection to a building as the NBN passed by. If your said "yes" at the time, the line would be laid to the building free and if you said "no" then it may cost you later. If one did say yes, then I am unsure whether that commitment was binding or not.
As I started out to say, I could not provde one link or the other without being biased because no doubt someone would bound to say,"you picked this one because it suited your argument".
I just wish this government of ours would come clean with some monthly statistics like:-
Is it on budget.
Is it on time.
What will be the true completion date be.
How many houses are currently elible.
How many have actually been connected as a percentage.
Will we all get 100 GBs.
As NBN is a monopoly what will be the increased cost of usage year after year.
How long will it take to recoup the installation outlay.
What will happen to NBN with a change of Government.
If and when NBN is sold off, will the government recover the full cost or will they accept a price much less.
Lots of answers required.
One economist was adamant the final cost would be $80 billion while others were more conservative down to $8 billion over buget. I could not find acurate figures on the number of houses eligible for connection and the number actually connected as a percentage.
The confusion continues with the final date of completion from 2020 to 2028.
There was talk on google about prices up to $138 depending upon the GB download. There were comments about Telstra's $29.95 monthly fee which allowed 5GB per month. There next plan was for 200GB at $90 per month.
Further comments were made about the connection to a building as the NBN passed by. If your said "yes" at the time, the line would be laid to the building free and if you said "no" then it may cost you later. If one did say yes, then I am unsure whether that commitment was binding or not.
As I started out to say, I could not provde one link or the other without being biased because no doubt someone would bound to say,"you picked this one because it suited your argument".
I just wish this government of ours would come clean with some monthly statistics like:-
Is it on budget.
Is it on time.
What will be the true completion date be.
How many houses are currently elible.
How many have actually been connected as a percentage.
Will we all get 100 GBs.
As NBN is a monopoly what will be the increased cost of usage year after year.
How long will it take to recoup the installation outlay.
What will happen to NBN with a change of Government.
If and when NBN is sold off, will the government recover the full cost or will they accept a price much less.
Lots of answers required.
Herewith an update from the Townsville Daily Bulletin.
http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2012/10/15/367828_news.html
Some of your questions are not for the Govt to answer. Others have already been answered many times.
This is a 10-year infrastructure project. Nobody can say with absolute certainty what the final cost will be, or how long it will take. I challenge you to find any 10-odd year project, public or private, which has cost exactly what was forcast at the time of commencement, or taken exactly the time forecast. All the Govt can do is provide running estimates of these things based on information known at the time, which is what they have done.
There is (of course) plenty of speculation from others people about what the final cost will be and how long it will take. If you choose to believe that speculation rather than the official Govt line, then it's entirely up to you. But you can't attack the Govt for failing to provide the information, because they have done so. You just choose not to believe it. There is no confusion in the officially provided information.
These questions are regularly answered in the lower house NBN committee, in Senate Estimates and in the NBN Co corporate plans. Last month the latest Corp plan was released which increased the budget from $36.9bn to $39bn. The original budget at announcement in 2009 was $43bn.
The completion date was pushed back 6 months from December 2020 to June 2021.
Additionally to the above, NBN Co make a yearly announcement of the rough rollout plan for the next 3 years, and a firm plan for the next 12 months.
Again, this is regularly announced. In the case of the fibre footprint, it was 18,200 until recently when another 5,000 were added. If you want to know where it's available and underway, simply visit the NBN co rollout map on their website: http://www.nbnco.com.au/rollout/rollout-map.html
This is announced in Senate Estimates and the lower house NBN committee at every hearing. On average, it is currently about 30% across all the brownfield NBN sites. This is well above expectations at this stage (about 11%). In perspective, the takeup of ADSL was 3% after 18 months and the takeup of Optus cable is ~20% after 12 years.
However, since the copper network will be switched off 18 months after the NBN fibre rolls through, it's a rather moot figure.
NBN Co do not charge by volume, they charge by speed. They are a wholesaler who charge ISPs a flat wholesale charge per connection based on the speed of that connection. They also charge ISPs a aggregation fee based on the total speed they want at each "Point of interconnect", and a flat fee to connect to each POI. The costs are detailed in the NBN Corp plan, and concisely explained here: http://www.tektel.com.au/TekTel Report - NBN Pricing Explained.pdf
From the publicly-available costs from NBN Co, the ISP must add their own costs (Installing the physical connections to the NBN, providing their national and international connectivity and their own operating costs) to decide on what their retail pricing and options will be.
The Govt has absolutely no say on what the retail pricing will be, or what monthly volume the ISPs include. They therefore cannot provide that information any more than Telstra can provide it for the copper network.
This has been answered many times. The NBN pricing is regulated by the ACCC. They are not permitted to increase their pricing at all for the first 5 years. After that, they are permitted to increase their pricing by a maximum of 50%xCPI in any one year for the next 25 years. After that, the ACCC SAU will have to be renegotiated. Additionally, they are not permitted to earn a profit of more than "bond rate+3.5%". If they do, they must lower their prices.
The corporate plan predicts that the capital cost (inc interest) will be repaid by 2034.
That's not a question the Govt can answer. Ask Tony Abbott.
Under NBN legislation, the NBN is not permitted to be sold off until it is completed and the sale is reviewed by the parliament. The price accepted and method of sale is a decision for the Govt of the day, and can not be answered now.
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The big question is their ability to deliver on the corporate plan.
Certainly, it's your right to question that ability and as time goes on the question will be answered.
I don't think at this stage there is any reason to think they won't deliver, based on:
Revenue side:
The takeup of high-end plans is well above forecast, meaning ARPU is ahead of expectations.
The Telstra and Optus migration deals are done, meaning takeup rate is essentially guaranteed.
Costs side:
Almost all of the wireless and sat portions have now been contracted, and are on budget.
Brownfield rollouts have been contracted on budget for the next 2 years, with a 2 year option.
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I'm getting these results from Whirlpool. You know, where Senator Conroy and his F.U.D. supporters are from...
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That is the bit that gets up my nose. You either take the NBN or we rip out your phone system anyway.
That may sit well with the younger generation that want bling speed internet and who cares if a lot don't want it.
Also who gives a rats what it costs, this is about ideology and ego's.
It will be interesting when the Y generation are asked to pay for something they aren't interested in.
The government cant balance a budget but are still bankrolling this, I hope we can afford it. The up coming mini budget would indicate otherwise.
I'm with Pauly, and for the same reason. There's too much difference between upload and download speeds. Those tests are most likely Optus cable, which offers a theoretical 100/2 speed.
Here is another one.
Now that is more typical of what 4G will get you. 3Mbps up and 3 down. Actually an extremely poor result when you consider how low the contention on 4G is currently (especially at 11pm!), plus the high signal strength and low latency which indicates the user is close to the tower. Imagine what will happen with a few million more connections.
WTF...
...and that's the high end of what you'll get until the networks start to get a decent number of subscribers and the speed plummets, as is the case with all wireless systems.
4G/LTE currently has a theoretical maximum of 150Mbps (shared per cell), so from the above test we can assume that the user was the only person using that cell at the time of the test. Try it agin in a CBD at 10am, and the result will be closer to the first pic....
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Your point would only be valid if the new network you were being "forced" on to cost more to use than the old network that's being turned off. But it doesn't. For an equivalent service, it actually costs less. Particularly for users at the low end, who are able to save 30% on what they pay now.
In the case of people outside the metro areas, the NBN costs much less. For the same price as I pay now for a phone+ADSL with 200GB at 13Mbps, I could get 1000GB at 100Mbps on the NBN. Such is the situation for people at the 4,500 telephone exchanges without access to the competitive ADSL networks enjoyed by those connected to the 500 city exchanges.
It makes absolutely no sense to keep the copper active once you install the fibre. It would be like keeping the rusty old iron water pipes going after new plastic ones were laid.
Bugger me, some randoms have been uploading speed test screen shots from their '4G Mobiles' on the net....most are probably iPhone 5's.
Anyways, have a look at the speed some of them are getting...
Further to my post asserting that these are Optus cable rather than 4G results..... According to Optus they don't have a 4G network in Brisbane yet, making this result rather unlikely, wouldn't you say?
https://www.optus.com.au/shop/networkcoverage/4G/WhereIs4G?sid=con:mob:net:hme:4g:btn::whereis
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Iinet price comparison
NBN: 20gig+20gig 12/1mbps + VOIP, $59.90 per month.
http://www.iinet.net.au/nbn/nbn-plan-residential.html
Naked DSL: 100gig (includes VOIP), $59.95 per month.
http://www.iinet.net.au/internet/broadband/naked-dsl/
At this end of the market, the NBN is clearly less value.
NBN: 20gig+20gig 12/1mbps + VOIP, $59.90 per month.
http://www.iinet.net.au/nbn/nbn-plan-residential.html
Naked DSL: 100gig (includes VOIP), $59.95 per month.
http://www.iinet.net.au/internet/broadband/naked-dsl/
At this end of the market, the NBN is clearly less value.
Firstly, iiNet naked DSL is only available to a small portion of the population in metro areas (ie: at ~350 of the 5,000 nationwide telephone exchanges with iiNet DSLAMs installed).
Secondly, iiNet don't offer a 100GB NBN plan making a direct comparison difficult. They do offer a 200GB plan on both naked and NBN though:
NBN: 100gig+100gig 12/1mbps w/ VOIP, $69.90 per month.
Naked DSL: 200gig (includes VOIP), $69.95 per month.
...and at the high end, there's absolutely no comparison:
NBN: 500gig+500gig 12/1mbps w/ VOIP, $89.90 per month.
NBN: 500gig+500gig 25/5mbps w/ VOIP, $94.90 per month.
NBN: 500gig+500gig 50/20mbps w/ VOIP, $104.90 per month.
NBN: 500gig+500gig 100/40mbps w/ VOIP, $109.90 per month.
Naked DSL: 600gig (includes VOIP), $119.95 per month.
If you're concerned about the entry level, then check Exetel's NBN offerings:
http://www.exetel.com.au/residential-fibre-pricing-mainland.php
- 50GB at 12/1 (includes VoIP) for $35.00 per month.
Let's see you find any nationwide phone+broadband plan as cheap as that on the copper network....
- 100GB at 25/5 (includes VoIP) for $50.00 per month.
Downloads 3x faster than average ADSL2 / 20% faster than max theoretical ADSL2 and uploads 5x faster than max ADSL2, all for $10 less per month than iiNet's cheap naked DSL, let alone what people pay today on copper through Telstra.
All NBN pricing is the same at any NBN location nationwide, whether it be rural, regional or metro.
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That doesn't change the fact that it's better value for money than the NBN.
Nonsense.
The comparison above is between 40gig/month (with a restriction) and 100gig/month for essentially the same monthly price.
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Further to my post asserting that these are Optus cable rather than 4G results..... According to Optus they don't have a 4G network in Brisbane yet, making this result rather unlikely, wouldn't you say?
https://www.optus.com.au/shop/networkcoverage/4G/WhereIs4G?sid=con:mob:net:hme:4g:btn::whereis
Courtesy of your mates over on Whirlpool.
Picture from above quote;
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And it doesn't change the fact that its not widely available, even in exchanges where iiNet has DSLAMs because many of those DSLAMs are at capacity anyway.
