Actually not that happy with the current Labor government but really anti Abbott who really is a drop kick heavily defended on this site.
.
What most if not everyone here is look the other way at the alternative say no and do nothing Abbott with his bunch of losers.
Inept management is a understatement but there should be a dividend for Australia from mining (WA Liberal Governess thought so) but Labor has sold Australia short in the mining tax that they are going to raise.
As for Carbon tax everyone here has been in complete denial with their fingers in their ears going na na na na about the coalitions direct action tax funded BS.
Not at all just means I don't talk to those that decide to label me various names based on their opinion instead of talking about the issue.
Also calling someone a clown is a clear personal attack and a sure sign your loosing the argument which of course is somewhat inevitable when any one argues against progress and human development.
Well we sure as hell don't e-mail it all to the docks do we??
No DO YOU GET that we do not have to manufacture trinkets, we only need to turn ore into steel.
Do you get that sunshine?
Of course I know that China uses our raw materials to manufacture stuff to sell to the USA and to customers of photo labs.
But what would it hurt to value add a bit to our product.... you do understand that concept, don't you?
Onesteel do it now,have a look at the chart.
PS you really think Internet speeds are exponential? Lolly what's that speed of light?
Have you heard of Moore's law? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore's_law ill quote the wiki "The capabilities of many digital electronic devices are strongly linked to Moore's law: processing speed, memory capacity, sensors and even the number and size of pixels in digital cameras"
And we can add to that list, software and internet speeds and capacity...for example: i like to play PC games, FPS - First Person Shooters being my favourite, the first one i ever played was Doom (1995) and it came on i think 8 or so floppy disks so the whole game was less than 20 Meg's in size, then a few years later came Doom 2 which was on a CD i think and that was about 400 Meg's in size.
Anyway fast forward to this weekend when i downloaded one of the latest FPS games to be released COD black ops multi-player (steam had a free game play weekend) it was a 6 Gig download, this game has global sales of over 8 million copy's (1 billion$) that's alot of gigs.
With Games getting bigger and Multi-player being such a popular way to play, the growth of consoles and their integration into the family TV and entertainment space....the file sizes will just continue growing and the bulk of those files will be distributed digitally and stored in clouds and local machines...we need the NBN speeds just to keep pace with digital reality's.
Ah, now I see.
Happy gaming.
PS Doom 2 was distributed on floppy too. Doom was released in 1993 and doom 2 in 1994.
This one is for NBNMyths -
Have you physically read the NBN document? Mate it is ridiculous that facts and figures you are spitting out about this thing...you either have:
A) Too much time (no offence intended) on your hands
B) Are somewhat involved.
- Hit that deny deny deny button all you like - but even the staunch Labor supporters don't know jack about the NBN - just that it is something that Lib voters oppose so they like it:
PS you really think Internet speeds are exponential? Lolly what's that speed of light?
Yep i play games and i cant spell...your point is? if it helps with your superiority complex im also in the under 50K annual income bracket...feel better now big fella?
Yep my bad...i was thinking Doom2 but it was actually Quake II in 97 and i was right as it was about 450 Meg's in size so from floppy's to CDs in under 5 years...and now we have made the leap from DVD's to online distribution and cloud storage.
The argument that the NBN can deliver fast speeds is not the issue with many here. The 4 main things about the NBN that I am opposed to are:
1. The assumption that fast internet speed can only be delivered by government, when it has been mainly private industry that has brought computing and communications to the stage it is in today. Compare both computing and communications speeds with what they were only 10 years ago. This was mostly all done without government involvement.
2. It is hard to predict what the needs will be in 10 years time. Speed will undoubtedly be required, but access method is constantly changing and the trend is strongly towards mobility. Although the NBN may serve as a useful backbone, does it need to go to every home?
3. The enormous cost of the NBN. Note they haven't upgraded the cost even though they are assuming more risk than previously since last weeks decision. Many would ask if investing that amount in the NBN provides the most benefit to Australia.
4. And extremely importantly. There is the whole assumption that the NBN that we are being told we will get can be delivered successfully. This government has failed to handle projects and policies far less complex. Not only have they often not delivered, they have screwed up entirely, setting whole industries back years (think roof insulation). Many of us simply believe that the NBN will be another fiasco. We may end up worse off than we currently are if the NBN doesn't deliver while it stymied private investment in this same area. The attempts to stifle competition to the NBN and the secrecy surrounding many aspects of the project are clear indications that it is already heading that way.
Workers may hold NBN to ransom, according to industrial agreement
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...strial-agreement/story-e6frg9hx-1226069735242
Have you heard of Moore's law? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore's_law ill quote the wiki "The capabilities of many digital electronic devices are strongly linked to Moore's law: processing speed, memory capacity, sensors and even the number and size of pixels in digital cameras"
And we can add to that list, software and internet speeds and capacity...for example: i like to play PC games, FPS - First Person Shooters being my favourite, the first one i ever played was Doom (1995) and it came on i think 8 or so floppy disks so the whole game was less than 20 Meg's in size, then a few years later came Doom 2 which was on a CD i think and that was about 400 Meg's in size.
Anyway fast forward to this weekend when i downloaded one of the latest FPS games to be released COD black ops multi-player (steam had a free game play weekend) it was a 6 Gig download, this game has global sales of over 8 million copy's (1 billion$) that's alot of gigs.
With Games getting bigger and Multi-player being such a popular way to play, the growth of consoles and their integration into the family TV and entertainment space....the file sizes will just continue growing and the bulk of those files will be distributed digitally and stored in clouds and local machines...we need the NBN speeds just to keep pace with digital reality's.
The problem is that the market (in Australia) hasn't delivered fast internet speeds.
The trend isn't a change to mobility, it is the addition of it. Data growth over fixed networks continues to increase much, much faster than data over wireless networks. From Q4 2009 to Q4 2010, the ABS reported that data over wireless increased by 2,500 Terrabytes (to 16990), while data over fixed lines increased by 61,000 Terrabytes (to 174665).
Mobile broadband connections cannot physically cope with our current data needs, let alone the massive growth that we have every year. There is no mobile technology on the horizon that can overcome this, and there is no country or telecommunications provider anywhere in the World that is advocating wireless to replace fixed networks in metropolitan areas.
fibre is undoubtedly the most future-proof solution
But the Government isn't doing the NBN. They have appointed a company to do it, full of very experienced and qualified people, and from all indications they are doing a pretty good job. Hundreds of contracts have been signed, all seems to be on budget so far and any delays are minimal and largely outside their control (ie Telstra deal). For such a massive start-up project, I'd say they are doing very well indeed.
Looking at an alternative suggested by the coalition...where Govt pay the private sector to improve the network outside profitable areas... This has far more in common with the insulation scheme that what the Government is actually doing with the NBN. While the Govt did a piss-poor job of supervising the insulation scheme, it was the private sector that provided the poor/unsafe workmanship and committed the frauds.
The "secrecy" surrounding the NBN is a fallacy promoted by Turnbull et al. As I've demonstrated, there is vast amounts of NBN info out there. The only things missing are in-depth costings for tenders etc,
As for stifling competition. I have no issue with what they have done, which is to legislate that if any company wants to build a competing fast fixed-line network, then they must do so on the same terms as the NBN. That is: wholesale-only, open access. But if the private sector wanted to build a fast network, why haven't they done anything for the last 10 years? AAPT's Paul Broad is a great example. He jumped up and down about the restrictions if he wanted to build a FTTP network. Well Paul, where have you been for the last 10 years? He has never even proposed doing such a thing, why would we believe he's going to start now?
Neither has the NBN yet. The market delivers what the market wants. It is the story of capitalism. Saying the market can't do it because they haven't up to now is like saying that the market can't deliver IPTV because they haven't done so in the past. A lot of things have to come together to make it feasible for private industry to get involved. The NBN is being rolled out to serve a future anticipated need. You are attacking private industry for not serving that need when it hasn't been there up to now. The planned NBN rollout, with its legislative impediments to competition, has ensured that the market will not get involved, even when they agree that need will be there in the future.
Again you are trying to compare a fixed network model to an all mobile model. The trend is clearly towards access from mobile rather than fixed devices. This may well increase at a faster rate the amount of data that flows on fixed networks between nodes that service the mobile devices. But the issue is the market will provide the speed and throughput where it is most wanted and profitable. Private industry has successfully done that up to now. This doesn't always mean that there won't be black spots where industry is uninterested because it doesn't make economic sense, but the government can fill the voids through subsidies or other means. You don't need a $35B commitment to do that.
You cannot make anything future proof.
I think you are trying to have your cake and eat it here. First paragraph: You agree government stuffs up but the NBN Co will contract the work out to private companies so that is OK. Second paragraph: It wasn't the government that stuffed up but private companies.
There is a lot more missing than that. I will have to research some of the facts I based my comment on as I don't have them to hand, but I clearly recollect when initially reading about them that the secrecy was not limited to just business in confidence issues.
But companies can't build competing networks on the same terms as the NBN. They are being prevented from competing in that space. There is no reason why it should be wholesale only. What you are saying is, you can compete, but you must dump your retail base to do so. That is a restriction that is only there for the purpose of stifling competition to the NBN, not to ensure that the best network is rolled out to consumers based on what consumers eventually want. In any case, I have read some articles where the NBNCo or some planned subsidiary of it will be able to provide retail services to large institutions.
Fibre is a future-proof as it gets. It has been the fastest technology for 30 years, and nothing is approaching it. In fact, it keeps getting faster than any alternative.
What alternatives to fibre are future proof that you're aware of? Most of the wireless advances do not come close to approaching fibre.
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