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NBN Rollout Scrapped

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NBNMyths said:
No. It only varies between hot and wet and very hot and very wet.

Can't wait to see how a FTTN street node without active environmental management copes with 38 degrees ambient and 99% RH.
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Don't become a meteorologist Myths.

Hobart's highest recordrd temperature exceeds that of Darwin and Darwin is never 38 degrees ambient in conjunction with 99% RH.
 
drsmith said:
Don't become a meteorologist Myths.

Hobart's highest recordrd temperature exceeds that of Darwin and Darwin is never 38 degrees ambient in conjunction with 99% RH.
Click to expand...

Me thinks you're nitpicking. If you think an FTTN cabinet containing equipment with limits of 60 º and 95% RH can survive in Darwin without active environmental controls, then build one yourself and tell the Govt you'll cover the ongoing maintenance and replacement costs for the expected life of the equipment under the recommended conditions.

The fact is that the coalition's FTTN cabinets will need active cooling in many parts of Australia. Adding to the cost of deployment. It's one of the reasons why running costs, maintenance costs and environmental impact (from power usage) is 2-3 times higher than FTTP. I'm not saying that alone is a reason not to do FTTN, but it is a fact that should be considered, and one that even Turnbull acknowledges.
 
NBNMyths said:
Me thinks you're nitpicking.
Click to expand...
You may not like it or even want to accept it, but I'm just pointing out the misinformation in your posts.

Regardless of whether it's the case or not, you have not with your distortions established it as fact.
 
yeee ha. Seems I'm facing some serious copper degradation now.

My sync has been consistently over 12Mbs since I've had ADSL2+ - going on 6 or 7 years now.

Seeing a drop to 9.7Mbs. Just what I want. Usually don't get anywhere near that kind of fall in speed when it rains, and it's certainly not been that heavy the last couple of days.

I'll just have to remind myself it's fit for high speed - but not ULTRA high speed - internet access in 2019.
 
Hi,

I would like to know how Armidale NSW is going now that it is connected to the NBN.

How much revenue for the country has been generated?

What has happened to population? productivity? etc.

Surely after the time it has had it there would be some extra employment/jobs created.

Or is the copper mine there the only driver of productivity?

MW

(The NBN is a tool for consumption supported by media who wants to target advertising directly to the consumer)
 
NBNMyths, what did you say about 5G a while back?


South Korea to spend $1.5 billion on 5G 'movie-in-a-second' service



http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/29193519.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
 

I've been providing friends with "IT support" for the last few weeks, which has coincided with their ongoing ADSL2+ problems. Sync keeps dropping out every time it's either hot or wet. Three visits by the Telstra tech later, they finally have what seems like decent reliability on their line, after the tech relented and gave them the last 'spare' pair that exists on their street bundle back down to the pillar (1.2km away). They now have a blistering 4500kbps sync speed. They can't get wireless reliably, because the hilly terrain makes reception hopeless.

I will be watching with great interest to see what happens with their "NBN" (which was due to be commenced next year). The street is very low density, with all 5-10 acre lots. So the ~1.6km of cable from the pillar to the end of the street only serves maybe 120 homes. It's only about 30 years old, but all in bad condition (2 other friends in the street also have regular dropouts). So will the coalition run FTTP in that street, or replace the entire copper bundle and install 3 nodes to service just 120 homes?

FTTP would be cheaper, but it would mean that the least-densely populated street in the suburb would get the best broadband service. Or will they spend more money to install their inferior system instead?
 
DB008 said:
NBNMyths, what did you say about 5G a while back?


South Korea to spend $1.5 billion on 5G 'movie-in-a-second' service


http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/29193519.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
Click to expand...

I believe I said that it cannot cope with fixed line volumes, and that article doesn't indicate anything different. Currently, even 3G and 4G networks struggle to cope with 5% of the network load. So they would have to be 20 times faster to cope with even today's fixed line volumes. But the fixed line volume is increasing at over 50% a year, compounded. So by 2020 (when they say their "40x faster" network will be commercially available), it would actually need to be more like 250x faster to cope with the expected fixed line load at that time.

That aside, there's nothing particularly special in the article. It says Samsung completed a test transmitting 1Gbps using their "5G". But LTE advanced has completed similar trials. It's not very helpful, because that 1Gbps is a headline cell speed shared by users on the network. With a few thousand users connected to that tower, the speed drops just like it does today. Because wireless bandwidth is shared amongst everyone connected. They are also using a very high frequency, which brings its own problems because it's heavily impacted by obstructions such as buildings or hills, even rain and fog.

the headline says it can transmit "a movie in a second"…. Turns out they mean an 800MB movie (which isn't even DVD quality)…. to a single user…..

What happens when 3,000 users try to download a 40,000MB 4k movie (which will be the norm by 2020)?


BTW, looking back at the original Samsung announcement, their test was 1 Gigabit per second, 1/8th the (incorrect) speed given in your linked article of 1 Gigabyte per second.
 

Which leads to the philosophical question, is it necessarily good that a movie be downloaded that quickly?

gg
 
Garpal Gumnut said:
Which leads to the philosophical question, is it necessarily good that a movie be downloaded that quickly?

gg
Click to expand...

Without arguing the good or bad of the claim, my point is that the headline is misleading (at best). The network is capable of that speed, but only if the person downloading the movie is the only one using it at the time. Given that there's an average of over 3000 people per wireless tower in Australia, such performance is practically impossible even if the network lives up to the claims being made.
 
Downloading a movie in 2 minutes seems a lot like having a water heater that heats 300 litres in a minute or putting an 800kW engine in a normal road car.

What, exactly, is the benefit in being able to do any of that for a normal householder / driver?

If the movie takes 2 hours to watch and is being streamed in real time then there should be no problem if it takes 2 hours to download. Likewise the average shower flows at 9 litres per minute, so about 5 litres of actual hot water, making it pointless to have a 1.2 megawatt water heater at home and a small sub-station in the front yard to run it. And there's no sensible place for an 800kW car other than a race track or similar.

I'm in favour of the NBN as a concept but if the best "need" we can come up with is fast movie downloads etc then it seems that the internet has already well and truly reached the point of diminishing returns. Data transmission for the sake of it, rather than an actual need.

As a random example, take news websites. 10 years ago a 28.8K modem was no problem but now even a slower ADSL connection will struggle. There's been a massive increase in the amount of data transmitted but little real benefit - the news is the news, and transmitting text requires minimal bandwidth. Spending $ billions just so that someone can have an amateur video playing automatically seems rather pointless. Likewise all those sites which require that you click on 10 pages in order to read a 10 point list complete with irrelevant stock photos in the background - it's just a case of demand increasing to meet supply for no real benefit.

Back to the other side of the argument, here are some real projected lifespan figures for an outdoor cabinet housing copper to fibre communications equipment.

I can't be too specific (commercial confidentiality) but this is to interface a small private copper communications system to the power industry's fibre network (which also operates as a communications carrier on a commercial basis in competition with Telstra etc). In short, they wish to keep an existing copper system at one end, put it all onto fibre, then pull it all back out quite some distance away.

In order to do this they will install an outdoor cabinet, connecting all the existing cables and the new fibre connection to this point. So far as equipment lifespan is concerned:

If they seal the cabinet and do nothing else then the expected lifespan is 5.5 years. Solar heating effects are the primary issue here, noting that their preferred external colour is not white (presumably due to council requirements for aesthetics).

No calculations have been done for natural ventilation, since achieving this effectively whilst meeting other requirements (security and keeping dust and rodents out) is problematic.

If they install forced ventilation (fans) then the expected lifespan is 17 years. Such a system will require frequent maintenance of filters however and they would prefer a system not requiring regular maintenance.

If they air-condition the cabinet then lifespan is a function of the temperature setting. It is then an economic tradeoff - longer equipment life versus a higher capacity (more expensive) air-conditioner and higher electricity costs. But a 33 year equipment life is practical to achieve for the electronics, with the air-conditioner being replaced after 15 years.

The physical cabinet itself is being built to last 30 years, with an unspecified life on the external coating (since it will likely need to be repainted due to graffiti well before the paint actually wears off).

The final design will involve an air-conditioned cabinet as this is the best way to meet the requirements.

I can't be too specific, this is a real engineering job currently being worked on, but it's indicative of the heat issue with electronics in a similar situation. Location is an urban area in Tasmania.
 

I think the use of how fast you can download a movie is so those who don't understand fully the IT world can conceptually see how fast the download speeds are. Talk to someone about gigabit or ten gig speeds and then press them to explain how fast it is and most will probably not be able to. It's the same when they talk about transmitting 1 million books in a second.

....

Interesting they've gone the active cooling route. Hopefully they wont be on ToU charging or it will be a killer. Any idea on how they propose to protect the compressor from vandalism? I'd assume that is going to reduce COP and increase the energy costs. How will they protect against condensation? Have they got a costing for connecting to the electricity? I've read in the UK it's been costing between 2.5K to 25K pounds for each node BT has been rolling out.
 
Rollout update for the week to January 19

1,551 brownfields in the past week compared to close to 9000 in the week to Jan 12 demonstrates how lumpy the individual weekly stats can be.


Total brownfields passed is now 283,527. The Strategic Review estimates 357,000 brownfields will be passed by June 30 2014.

http://www.nbnco.com.au/about-us/weekly-progress-report.html
 

So it's basically the same principle the power industry uses. Tell visitors to power stations that "at full capacity, this plant generates enough power to run 400,000 houses" as a means of putting its' capacity into perspective in a way that people can comprehend. Then state the actual technical details for the few who will understand them (which by the way tends to be mostly older people.....).


Active cooling best meets their needs in this situation and is thus the recommended option. They wanted something durable and low maintenance, not necessarily cheap, as the key criteria. No ToU charging to worry about - will be on a flat rate tariff with conventional metering. Vandalism - not sure but just put a strong cage around it and that will fix it. Condensation - shouldn't happen but if it does then it will be on the outside of the cabinet so not a huge issue, worst case it will just make the grass grow. Electricity will need to be connected anyway since there are powered devices inside therefore it's not an additional expense for active cooling. At a rough guess (just my guess, I haven't seen the actual calcs for this), the cooling will add around $250 a year to power costs for the cabinet so it's not huge. They'll only need a single phase supply to run the cooling plus everything else and would need that connection regardless of what is done in relation to temperature.
 
Rollout progress and the Xmas shutdown.


Last week's update is perhaps where we've started seeing this flow through to the weekly rollout figures.

http://www.zdnet.com/au/nbn-construction-just-resting-not-ended-7000025650/
 

Dude seriously.


Its a BS comparison anyway, a cheap half assed technology versus state of the art, surprise surprise its cheaper. lets not even discuss the $30 per month forced PSTN line.
 

Even Infrastructure Australia is asking why our infrastructure spending is focused on politicaly motivated 'big ticket' projects. At the expense of more critical infrastructure to facilitate a rapidly growing country.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-29/kohler-infrastructure-emergency/5224586

Infrastructure Australia (IA) was set up as a statutory body in 2008 to organise and prioritise infrastructure spending but six years later Michael Deegan, the Infrastructure Coordinator (effectively the body's chief executive), has written a deeply frustrated submission to a Senate inquiry, declaring: "There is an air of unreality about our infrastructure planning."

By the way" good post medic" IMHO
 
Rollout update for the week to January 26

4,709 brownfields in the past week.


Total brownfields passed is now 288,236. The Strategic Review estimates 357,000 brownfields will be passed by June 30 2014. A total of 68,764 brownfields now need to be passed over the next 22 weeks at an average of 3126 per week to reach the above target.

http://www.nbnco.com.au/about-us/weekly-progress-report.html

drsmith said:
Rollout update for the week to January 19

1,551 brownfields in the past week compared to close to 9000 in the week to Jan 12 demonstrates how lumpy the individual weekly stats can be.
Click to expand...
 
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