National Holiday for Execution of Bali Bombers

[Garpal Gumnut]

Wouldn't it be appropriate if the execution of these deluded murderous monsters fell on Australia Day.

gg

 

[2020hindsight]

gg,
Loaded question (2 options only at this stage) - suppose you don't believe in capital punishment ?

Have you stopped beating your wife? gg

PS No way should they execute Scott Rush.
PS Incidentally, I'd like to see the remains of the Balibo five given a state funeral on Aus Day

Some systems of parliamentary debate provide for "dividing the question", that is, splitting a complex question up into two or more simple questions. Such a move can be used to split the example as follows:
"Have you ever beaten your wife?"
"If so, are you still doing so?"
In this way, 1 can be answered directly by "no", and then the conditional question 2 does not arise.

PS Although some would argue as follows :-

"if I don't have a wife or have never beaten my wife, isn't it strictly accurate to answer 'No' to the question 'Have you stopped beating your wife?'? I haven't stopped, after all—I never even started." etc

except that "no" becomes ambiguous as to which interpretation etc -

Summary
how about a third option mods?

 

[numbercruncher]

Do it during Ramadan, soak the bullets in the blood of swine and ensure these monsters find a cosy little spot in hell.

Australia day is not a day to tar with vengence, Australia is the finest country on earth, formed by a vote rather than a war.

Under no circumstances should the execution fall on Australia day, hence stealing our thunder.

Peace all.

 

[2020hindsight]

(at this point there are two options only to the answer )

correct answer to "Have you stopped beating your wife?" is apparently "moo"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu_(negative)

In his 1974 novel Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, Robert M. Pirsig translated mu as "no thing", saying that it meant "unask the question". He offered the example of a computer circuit using the binary numeral system, in effect using mu to represent high impedance:

“ For example, it's stated over and over again that computer circuits exhibit only two states, a voltage for "one" and a voltage for "zero". That's silly!

Any computer-electronics technician knows otherwise. Try to find a voltage representing one or zero when the power is off! The circuits are in a mu-state.”

According to the Jargon File, ... mu (here pronounced "moo") is considered by Discordians to be the correct answer to the classic logical fallacy of the loaded question "Have you stopped beating your wife?"[1]

Assuming that you have no wife or you have never beaten your wife, the answer "yes" is wrong because it implies that you used to beat your wife and then stopped, but "no" is worse because it suggests that you have one and are still beating her. As a result, various Discordians proposed mu as the correct answer, alleged by them to mean "Your question cannot be answered because it depends on incorrect assumptions".

 

[The Mint Man]

A day is a day, the sun comes up in the morning and goes down in the after noon. Who cares what day they get the neck!!! The name of the particular day shouldn't matter....
So based on the above I voted yes.
In this particular case I'm 100% for. These scum deserve it, they should get rid of them ASAP so we can stop seeing their smiling faces on TV.
They not only killed many people, they also ruined the lives of countless others, be it friends & family of those who were killed, the poor balinese people (most of which are street traders), people who witnessed the sheer horror of their act etc. the list goes on.

 

[2020hindsight]

Do it during Ramadan, soak the bullets in the blood of swine and ensure these monsters find a cosy little spot in hell..

nc, ref your reference to swine blood - (pisstake?) - obviously this would come across as designed to insult Moslems - and Indonesia would obviously take it as such - counterproductive etc

I just posted on "cause of war" thread - in this case "trigger of war" (somewhat different).
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=241231&highlight=mutiny#post241231

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

gg,
Loaded question (2 options only at this stage) - suppose you don't believe in capital punishment ?

Have you stopped beating your wife? gg

PS No way should they execute Scott Rush.
PS Incidentally, I'd like to see the remains of the Balibo five given a state funeral on Aus Day


PS Although some would argue as follows :-

"if I don't have a wife or have never beaten my wife, isn't it strictly accurate to answer 'No' to the question 'Have you stopped beating your wife?'? I haven't stopped, after all””I never even started." etc

except that "no" becomes ambiguous as to which interpretation etc -

Summary
how about a third option mods?

Thanks 2020.

I did think through those issues before posting. I'd be happy for moderators to change the question or for a new thread if necessary.

re swine blood, I agree that it is important not to insult other faiths, however it is London to a brick that one of the bullets which ends Amrosi's miserable little life will contain an electron which once was in a pig. He'll have to live with that, excuse the pun.

gg

 

[2020hindsight]

thanks gg
I've gone for "moo" (other)
don't believe in death penalty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu_(negative

btw, whenever I go to Perth, I inevitably go up to Kings Park - stop by Bali memorial up there -

I've overheard people saying "this memorial shouldn't be here, this is for the "fallen" - i.e. there are hundreds of trees with plaques of the names of soldiers who didn't return (alive). Personally I am confident that the old diggers wouldn't be so narrow-minded.

It's a fantastic memorial - 16 wassies killed in Bali (from memory)
on the 12 October, the first suns rays travel through a narrow slit between two walls in the memorial - and light up a bronze plaque with their names. By the next day, I understand the sun has already moved "north" and the rays no longer strike it. Really well done.

I notice there's one in Vic , and possibly more in other states - plus UK also has a memorial in London
plus one at Kuta of course.

As for the bombers - they can stay in jail forever for mine.
Why martyr them?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Bali_bombing

Australian 88
Indonesian 38
British 24
American 7
German 6
Swedish 5
Dutch 4
French 4
Danish 3
New Zealander 3
Swiss 3
Brazilian 2
Canadian 2
Japanese 2
South African 2
South Korea 2
Ecuadorian 1
Greek 1
Italian 1
Polish 1
Portuguese 1
Taiwanese 1
Unknown 3
Total 202

 

[2020hindsight]

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=148527&highlight=memorial#post148527

 

[Kimosabi]

A New Documentary on the Bali Bombings I came across recently

Fool Me Twice ==> http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=-4135706276167925924

 

[2020hindsight]

A New Documentary on the Bali Bombings I came across recently

Fool Me Twice ==> http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=-4135706276167925924

Kim :santa:
- 2 hours m8 - maybe I'll finish it later
But the bit about East Timor was interesting and horrific at the same time (as far as I got) - If anything we were too slow to go in there and support those poor East Timorese.

Not that I'm saying that current Indonesian leadership isn't doing its best to steer the place out of those bad old days (they are doing better, and they are capturing many terrorists for instance)

But for AQ to then say that Bali was justified because of our action in going in there - :bs: :bad:

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

thanks gg
I've gone for "moo" (other)
don't believe in death penalty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu_(negative

No worries, thanks, and to R.Pirsig. What a great book.

Lets hope Amrosi et al don't "escape" before the bullet. Sorry, forgot about your stand on cp. Lets hope they don't escape.

gg

 

[2020hindsight]

No worries, thanks, and to R.Pirsig. What a great book.

In his 1974 novel Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, Robert M. Pirsig translated mu as "no thing", saying that it meant "unask the question". He offered the example of a computer circuit using the binary numeral system, in effect using mu to represent high impedance:

“ For example, it's stated over and over again that computer circuits exhibit only two states, a voltage for "one" and a voltage for "zero". That's silly!

Any computer-electronics technician knows otherwise. Try to find a voltage representing one or zero when the power is off! The circuits are in a mu-state.”

:topic Like that one ..

there are 10 types of people - those that know binary, and those that don't

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

(at this point there are two options only to the answer )

correct answer to "Have you stopped beating your wife?" is apparently "moo"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu_(negative)

Believe it or not I hadn't voted on this one myself., yet. I kept on looking at it from different angles, which obviously wasn't the way to go.

I'll vote mu as soon as I post



Thanks

gg

 

[2020hindsight]

Well you've got me thinking too gg

Things that would be appropriate on Aus Day ?

"sorry" to the stolen generation?
some announcement on Iraq?
on religious tolerance into the future?
on some breakthrough on reafforestation?,
or turning carbon from the smoke stacks of power station into lead pencils?
and giving those pencils to kids in third world countries to learn to write?
and the Abs for that matter?
and mental health, education, etc etc
oops - better not get off thread again
(it's my mind you see - ever since they took these blinkers off)

But you can bet your bottom dollar (imo - easy for me to say because my dollars are rock bottom) that Kevin will attempt to make this Australia Say "an Affair to Remember"

 

[Scuba]

Definitely not on Australia day!

In fact I'd prefer to let em' rot in a jail where they serve pork. Bacon and egg breakfast without the eggs. Problem is where they are, there seems to be some kind of "hero of the faith" status, with vists from their Abu Baka Bashir "spiritual leader", cups of tea and smiles all around... NOT RIGHT, how anyone in their right mind could condone such indiscriminate murder is beyond me...

It's really something how they serve the law over there, all these folks wanting Sharia law, why are they not applying it in the case of the bombers? That would be something, roughly 200 families getting legalised 'payback' for the murder of their family members. Not all of them would want that, but I wouldn't think there would be much left over afterwards and it would be even harder for the bombers to be considered martyrs either...

 

[2020hindsight]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/01/29/2149338.htm?section=justin

Bali bombers' execution could be delayed by appeal
Posted 3 hours 26 minutes ago

A last-ditch appeal by three Indonesian Islamic militants on death row for a 2002 bombing on Indonesia's island of Bali could delay their execution, an official says.

Imam Samudra, Mukhlas and Amrozi, are facing a firing squad for two nightclub blasts on the resort island in which more than 200 people died, 88 of them Australians, after the country's Supreme Court rejected their final appeal in September.

Last week lawyers for the three handed over documents to the Cilacap District Court, requesting a second judicial review of their case by the Supreme Court.

Spokesman for the attorney general's office, Bonaventura Daulat Nainggolan, says although a second case review is not possible under existing laws, the execution would have to wait until the request is rejected.

"We need to wait until all legal processes are out of the way before we can proceed with the execution," he said.

"It all depends on the court.

"If it doesn't reject it straight away but decides to examine the request first, it would certainly stretch the date of the execution."

Mr Nainggolan says a 30-day period for the militants to request clemency from the President or be executed expires early next month.

The three bombers, who are held in the country's maximum security prison on an island off Java, have repeatedly said they will not appeal to the President for clemency, saying they want to die as martyrs.

Achmad Michdan, who heads the legal defence for the militants, says their efforts should not be interpreted as a cowardly act to slow down the execution.

"This is about restoring the legal supremacy in the country," he said.

"We are not living in the jungle, the laws need to be applied as they are and not changed to anyone's desire."

The lawyers argue that anti-terrorism laws, which were written in the wake of the 2002 attacks, should not be applied retrospectively.

And what effect will all this have on what happens to Scott Rush and co.

 

[Buster]

Hey 2020,

nc, ref your reference to swine blood - (pisstake?) - obviously this would come across as designed to insult Moslems - and Indonesia would obviously take it as such - counterproductive etc

Hmmm.. I don't think that is what he meant.. simply that there is no way they can be accepted into 'their' version of 'heaven'.. Apparently eating or touching a pig, its meat, its blood, etc., is to be instantly barred from paradise and doomed to hell.. Although this is disputed in by some..

Then again, I guess only NC can tell you exactly what he meant.. I'm tipping you would cause more offence with the spelling of Moslem vice Muslim.. However, that may have been your intent..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim

The ordinary word in English is "Muslim. It is sometimes spelt "Moslem", which some regard as offensive.

Regards

Buster.

 

[2020hindsight]

I'm tipping you would cause more offence with the spelling of Moslem vice Muslim..

Thanks Buster ..
Incidentally :-

Moslim http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moslim
moslem http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=moslem&meta=

I can tell you I'm amazed at the inconsistent spelling of this.

But you're probably right - the Arabic is probably "Muslim" - I'll try that in future.
PS It was not my intent to cause offence.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Moslem
Mos·lem (mzlm, ms-) n. Variant of Muslim.

[Arabic muslim; see Muslim.].

Likewise :-
mujahadeen http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=mujahadeen&meta=
mujahideen http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=mujahideen&spell=1
mujihideen http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=mujihideen&meta=
mujihadeen http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=mujihadeen&meta=


You wonder why I call em the "muja" ?

 

[Buster]

G'Day 2020,

Sorry mate, not zeroing in on you.. but..

btw, whenever I go to Perth, I inevitably go up to Kings Park - stop by Bali memorial up there - I've overheard people saying "this memorial shouldn't be here, this is for the "fallen" - i.e. there are hundreds of trees with plaques of the names of soldiers who didn't return (alive). Personally I am confident that the old diggers wouldn't be so narrow-minded.

I personally don't believe it should be there either.. Yes, the Bali Bombings was a tragic and terrible thing, however Kings Park is a place of remembrance for our Servicemen.. Lads and ladies who have donned the uniform and served, leaving our shores, knowing that they may never return.

A bunch of holiday makers heading off to get on the piss and laze on the beach is a significantly different prospect..

Still that’s my take anyway.

Regards,

Buster