Knobby22
Mmmmmm 2nd breakfast
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Crunch. This is really on the nose now. Apparently the profit numbers were far below analysts expectations?
Profit's fine it's the outlook that's bad because of increasing competition.
Yes indeed. The profit from this year is only going to be slightly below consensus - I had $114.2m consensus NPAT vs ~$110m in today's forecast (before the pre-tax $25m impairment).
The announcement said "Reported NPAT of between A$92-A$95m", and reported usually means including all impairments. If that is the case then my interpretation above would be correct.
However, one report I just read mentioned that the $92-95m range is "Adjusted NPAT", not including the $25m impairment. I am unsure how they come up with this interpretation, but if that is the case then it's a 18% miss on the NPAT line which is much more significant.
The announcement said "Reported NPAT of between A$92-A$95m", and reported usually means including all impairments. If that is the case then my interpretation above would be correct.
However, one report I just read mentioned that the $92-95m range is "Adjusted NPAT", not including the $25m impairment. I am unsure how they come up with this interpretation, but if that is the case then it's a 18% miss on the NPAT line which is much more significant.
This stock/company definitely looks like a falling knife. When it comes to companies that make big acquisitions and keep doing frequent capital raisings I like to take a guilty until proven innocent approach. I just assume things will blow up down the line unless I see compelling evidence otherwise.
Don't forget the reported result also includes a first half one off $22.5m net gain from litigation.
Bets on whether that's the last write down on the generics business?
True... but I am reasonably confident that my initial numbers were correct... i.e. reported NPAT includes the one-offs and the underlying NPAT is a bit higher than the reported number.
However, one report I just read mentioned that the $92-95m range is "Adjusted NPAT", not including the $25m impairment.
Accounting question for you McLovin if I may... if a company announces a $100m non cash write down for say full year 2017, does the D&A terms get reduced immediately? In other words, if a company announces an asset impairment and upgrades EBIT in the same breath... are they just talking $hit?
I don't disagree that approach, but I believe in this instance the issues are more industry-wide rather than MYX- or acquisition-specific. Again, investors should at least be thankful that MYX balance sheet isn't highly geared.
True... but I am reasonably confident that my initial numbers were correct... i.e. reported NPAT includes the one-offs and the underlying NPAT is a bit higher than the reported number.
Accounting question for you McLovin if I may... if a company announces a $100m non cash write down for say full year 2017, does the D&A terms get reduced immediately? In other words, if a company announces an asset impairment and upgrades EBIT in the same breath... are they just talking $hit?
Why should investors be "thankful" that MYX's balance isn't heavily geared?
I'd say it's heavily geared, just geared with generous shareholders' cash instead of the cheaper ones any bankers would be happy to lend to any half-decent business.
So they raised that Feng-Shui friendly $888m, borrowed and spend to some $1B to acquire the IP and working capital/technical transfer etc. This gave it EBITDA of $US94.5 ($A120m)... Let's be generous and uses FY16 ratio of gross profit down to net profit after tax, interests... so gross profit FY16 was $168.4m, NPAT $34.5m gives a ratio of 34.5/168.4 = .20.
Management now reckon the useful life of the acquisition to be 15 years... at $24.6m net to shareholders a year... over 15 years that's 24.6*15 =$368.77m. So shareholders are not going to make money within that 15 years "useful life" of their acquisition
Sorry, I might be totally misreading what you're trying to say.
ETA: The more I think about it the more I'm thinking that you can't shove current period D&A into a writedown. It goes against the matching principle of accounting. If you write down the asset at the start of the period then it would be fine though.
Alright, looking on the brighter side of things. Fair enough.They should be thankful because if MYX is heavily geared the share price would be down 40% not just 15%. And without too much debt it gives them a chance to ride out the cycle (if it is indeed a cycle and not structural). It's the same as saying to someone who just survived a car crash that they are lucky to be alive. No there is nothing lucky about a car crash, but it's all relative.
Sure. Feel free to define the word "gear" to mean whatever you like.
No. This is wrong. Gross profit and EBITDA are different things. You have calculated a NPAT to gross profit ratio and applied it to EBITDA. If you want to use the NPAT/EBITDA ratio it is 51% (45.2/88.5) for FY16.
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Again this is totally wrong. The return on an investment depends on the cashflow it can generate, not the NPAT.
Imagine there is an investment where you can buy a $9m machine that generates $7m of cashflow a year for 3 years, after which the machine is worthless (so you depreciate the machine over 3 years). The NPAT each year is $2.8m ($7m gross profit less $3m depreciation less 30% tax). So in 3 years total NPAT is only $8.4m hence it's a terrible investment using your method of assessment.
But in reality, the investments yields a total cash of $17.4m over 3 years after paying tax of $3.6m, and it is absolutely worthwhile.
I am not saying MYX made a good investment. I am just pointing out that your method of assessment is wrong, and the calculation within your assessment is also wrong.
So put a buy order at 50 cents price with a hope it will not reach below that.
Dude, re-read what I wrote. The idea was to use some "crude" method to gauge an approximate ratio of EBITDA down to NPAT. I didn't say EBITDA was the same as Gross Profit. In fact, I said I was being generous and not do it...
It's not a crude method, it's just plain wrong. You used a margin of 20% when the real margin was 50%. You'd do yourself a huge favour if every now and then you just admit, like the rest of us, that you make mistakes.
Second, Teva's portfolio EBITDA was $US94.5m, or about $A120m.
For that Teva's NPAT to be at 50%, it'll be $60m after taking out the ITDA.
MYX paid Teva some $880... writing this all down in 15 years... that's amortisation at $880/15 = $58.67m a year.
Debt was also raised for the purchase [total expenses on the purchase adds to some $1B]. So interests and taxes will have to be paid... That will push the ITDA past the $60m [or 50%] mark.
So 50% NPAT from EBITDA is not possible.
If that purchased EBITDA falls to bottom at the same rate (it will be less, I assume, because of the purchased intangibles – but the amortisation around the customer contract stuff can be disregarded, imo)
You're not buying EBITDA, you're buying cashflow.
McLovin, I think there's enough discussion here for the readers to interpret the arguments and numbers... So I think it's best to reassess whether you want to engage with luutzu further (assuming you would like to remain sane).
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