Multiculturalism/Ethnic Communities vs. National Communities

Tisme · 3 November 2014

I was wondering what the right mix of overarching national pride there should be versus individual ethnic allegiance for there still to be a healthy community in our great girt country.

At the moment we hear demands from self appointed "community" leaders for Australia to do this and do that, while it seems the silent majority procrastinates either through ambivalence or defiance.

I notice tonight we have ABC's Qanda featuring under siege Muslim Communities within our borders feeling all hurt at our lack of caring. http://theconversation.com/fairness-and-trust-make-all-the-difference-in-countering-terrorism-32319 . George Brandis is a caring soul so he might be a beacon for reason.

I can't help but think that if I was impudent enough to make demands for a separatist rule of law, dressed like a tart and built a shrine to pagan worship in any non western democracy (I decided to make my home), I might be lucky to escape with a couple of teeth, a usable hand and some thread bare clothing. But that's me; I'm rather intolerant of people and their kids who insult the host at a bbq for not making a special effort with the menu.

So how far do we go to placate the petulant hordes and make them feel special? How did we manage to integrate the post war refugees into our communities and make our country even more interesting and enjoyable?

I do know that I could easily convince my kids they had an ailment that needed bed rest, just to give their mum and me a break from their incessant resonance. Is there a corollary to the current migrant and second gen social separatists?

luutzu · 3 November 2014

Tisme said:
I was wondering what the right mix of overarching national pride there should be versus individual ethnic allegiance for there still to be a healthy community in our great girt country.

At the moment we hear demands from self appointed "community" leaders for Australia to do this and do that, while it seems the silent majority procrastinates either through ambivalence or defiance.

I notice tonight we have ABC's Qanda featuring under siege Muslim Communities within our borders feeling all hurt at our lack of caring. http://theconversation.com/fairness-and-trust-make-all-the-difference-in-countering-terrorism-32319 . George Brandis is a caring soul so he might be a beacon for reason.

I can't help but think that if I was impudent enough to make demands for a separatist rule of law, dressed like a tart and built a shrine to pagan worship in any non western democracy (I decided to make my home), I might be lucky to escape with a couple of teeth, a usable hand and some thread bare clothing. But that's me; I'm rather intolerant of people and their kids who insult the host at a bbq for not making a special effort with the menu.

So how far do we go to placate the petulant hordes and make them feel special? How did we manage to integrate the post war refugees into our communities and make our country even more interesting and enjoyable?

I do know that I could easily convince my kids they had an ailment that needed bed rest, just to give their mum and me a break from their incessant resonance. Is there a corollary to the current migrant and second gen social separatists?

I'm pretty sure no ethnic community is asking for a separate system of laws just for them in Australia. All they're asking is to not be demonised or blamed or look on with suspicion because of what others did. Too much to ask?

Has anyone ever asked if all Catholics are pedophiles because a handful of priests are? That'd be outrageous right? How about White people? Do we ask if White males are all serial killers because all serial killers are generally White males.

How about Muslims? Hey normal Muslim guy on the street going to work, why aren't you speaking up against terrorists in the Middle East? Are you a terrorist or a wannabe terrorist? Is that it? That must be it because if it isn't, you'd be speaking up against it!

Hey Muslim woman! Why are you covering yourself up? You know how confronting that is? Get into a bikini, wear short skirts and neck scarf and look awesome like us sexy and proud of it sheelas.

It's strange but I'm sure they'd get used to it... strange that a dude who was born in England is now its national captain and lead Team Australia without anyone raising an eyebrow; yet some ethnic looking kid who was born and raised in Australia, whose parents might also have been born and raised in Australia... that kid could be told to go back to where he came from... that or act like real Australians and do something Australian, whatever that is.

herzy · 3 November 2014

I think the essential element is freedom of choice, which goes both ways. It's a necessary corollary of that freedom that we also respect those who have views different to ours, in terms of clothing, cultural values, etc.

So yes, while you may struggle to expound your ideals in a more restricted country, that's exactly the point - Australia is in essence unrestricted. It seems that you're saying some Muslim ideals should be restricted here, because they don't conform to your views - but isn't that then exactly what you complain of in another country?

You say you don't like people who make extra demands at a free BBQ (i.e. being ungrateful). That's fine, but that's exactly what you're doing too, if you go to live in a more restricted country and make certain demands according to your ideals.

So if you want a free BBQ, that's fine, but then you have to be open to the fact that some people will bring dishes you don't like.

Sorry that was quite convoluted - it's been a long day.

luutzu · 3 November 2014

herzy said:
I think the essential element is freedom of choice, which goes both ways. It's a necessary corollary of that freedom that we also respect those who have views different to ours, in terms of clothing, cultural values, etc.

So yes, while you may struggle to expound your ideals in a more restricted country, that's exactly the point - Australia is in essence unrestricted. It seems that you're saying some Muslim ideals should be restricted here, because they don't conform to your views - but isn't that then exactly what you complain of in another country?

You say you don't like people who make extra demands at a free BBQ (i.e. being ungrateful). That's fine, but that's exactly what you're doing too, if you go to live in a more restricted country and make certain demands according to your ideals.

So if you want a free BBQ, that's fine, but then you have to be open to the fact that some people will bring dishes you don't like.

Sorry that was quite convoluted - it's been a long day.

Well said.

SirRumpole · 3 November 2014

Tisme said:
So h ow far do we go to placate the petulant hordes and make them feel special? How did we manage to integrate the post war refugees into our communities and make our country even more interesting and enjoyable?

I don't think we need to go very far at all.

We coddle minorities by providing interpreters in some cases, and brochures or government documents in multiple languages, when as far as I know it's a high priority in migrant selection that people have English skills before they come to live here.

People should be allowed to enjoy their own cultures, but not at our expense.

Wysiwyg · 17 March 2018

Living wherever one wants in the world should be a natural thing and adopting the local cultures and laws part of it. The trouble with being biased toward multiculturalism is the expectation of social designers for everyone to get along fine even though their are no common interests, dress or dialect. So to get around that, they live on one side of town and we live on the other or get out bred and outnumbered and move elsewhere.

luutzu · 17 March 2018

Wysiwyg said:
Living wherever one wants in the world should be a natural thing and adopting the local cultures and laws part of it. The trouble with being biased toward multiculturalism is the expectation of social designers for everyone to get along fine even though their are no common interests, dress or dialect. So to get around that, they live on one side of town and we live on the other or get out bred and outnumbered and move elsewhere.

We all speak a common language: The Dollar.

wayneL · 17 March 2018

luutzu said:
We all speak a common language: The Dollar.

yeah, but a thank you would be nice

luutzu · 17 March 2018

wayneL said:
yeah, but a thank you would be nice

Thank you, Sifu.

Now, which way to Centa Link?

SirRumpole · 17 March 2018

We have enough multiculturalism at the moment.

When we have to supply official documents written in other languages then its apparent that some people aren't getting with the program of becoming Australian.

Wysiwyg · 17 March 2018

luutzu said:
Thank you, Sifu.

Now, which way to Centa Link?

That is funny and good to see you have a sense of humour.

Wysiwyg · 17 March 2018

luutzu said:
We all speak a common language: The Dollar.

Last time I left my house I noticed that to acquire something from anyone there was an exchange of currency for goods or services. Now this is not always necessary as stealing can also acquire things. Also there is the option to make it or do it ourselves.

luutzu · 17 March 2018

SirRumpole said:
We have enough multiculturalism at the moment.

When we have to supply official documents written in other languages then its apparent that some people aren't getting with the program of becoming Australian.

I don't remember my parents ever filling in any form in a foreign language... as in, in their language. Not foreign as in English foreign.

It's the few pamphlets that are in various languages, not the form. That's unless the Muslims have since forced that change with their Sharia Law stealth usurpation.

My neighbour's kids having some big party. Loud playlist in both American rap/pop/rock [?]... and also an occasional Arabic song. There's also one or two classics from Michael Jackson.

luutzu · 18 March 2018

Wysiwyg said:
Last time I left my house I noticed that to acquire something from anyone there was an exchange of currency for goods or services. Now this is not always necessary as stealing can also acquire things. Also there is the option to make it or do it ourselves.

You're referring to welfare recipients?

Don't we all enjoy the safety and generosity of the state? All of us?
Don't we all suckle at that teet proper taxation, its distribution towards arms and investment enabled?

Why is it good and normal for the state to advance policies, send delegates to trade talks, make alliances, define friends and enemies... all to further advance and enrich the interest of those who work or own assets.

Yet, when a few crumbs from that banquet are dropped to feed the widows and orphans, the desperate and poor... that's some sort of abnormal, outrageously generous thing to do with the common wealth?

If they are lazy, motivate them; If they are widow having to look after infant children and cannot be productive, don't send their loved ones to war.

If they, with few education can fool and trick the system.. employ them instead of the idiots in charge.

But of course that's rubbish. We all know those with all the money in the world ought to have more; Those with so little get to enjoy the view... from the gutter, behind the gate, whichever is furthest away.

Wysiwyg · 15 August 2018

Multiculturalism works. We all live in Australia - you live in that suburb with your sharia law, Middle Eastern dress and ethnic watchdogs and I live in mine with the mainstream european ethnicities. No need to assimilate as we all live in Australia.

Wysiwyg · 15 August 2018

luutzu said:
Don't we all enjoy the safety and generosity of the state? All of us?
Don't we all suckle at that teet proper taxation, its distribution towards arms and investment enabled?

You should thank the bloody UK for the Westminster System.

luutzu · 15 August 2018

Wysiwyg said:
You should thank the bloody UK for the Westminster System.

I shuold thank the UK for a lot of things. I should also thank all other cultures for a lot of things too.

Tisme · 15 August 2018

luutzu said:
I shuold thank the UK for a lot of things. I should also thank all other cultures for a lot of things too.

Yeah but San Choy Bow isn't the same as the parliamentary systems and rule of law.

luutzu · 15 August 2018

Wysiwyg said:
Multiculturalism works. We all live in Australia - you live in that suburb with your sharia law, Middle Eastern dress and ethnic watchdogs and I live in mine with the mainstream european ethnicities. No need to assimilate as we all live in Australia.

Why should I or anyone assimilate to anyone else's culture?

Heck, I don't even assimilate to my own cultural heritage. I'm not even going to send my kids to Saturday school to learn the old country's language.

We should all live as we like. As long as it doesn't harm anybody, they should stay the heck out of our houses.

Isn't that what freedom is?

Tisme · 15 August 2018

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