Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Mish - Representing the hard right

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Mr J said:
The left-wingers cry "damned right-winger", the right-wingers cry "bloody left-winger" :D.

Gumby, I think when it comes to dishes, I'm anarcho-punk. I've got nothing against the dishes ;).
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Me too Mr.J. I usually store my angst and get rid of it at Greek weddings. :D
 
Mr J said:
The left-wingers cry "damned right-winger", the right-wingers cry "bloody left-winger" :D.
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I use different adjectives... in fact right/left/wing is the adjective with appropriate adverb and noun either side. :D
 
His has got me riled again!

Colorado has lowered the minimum wage to $7.24.
Mish is of course not happy with that. He wants the minimum wage requirement removed. Of course, he is against unions or any other ways that workers could defend themselves. Doesn't he undestand if you pay workers $2 an hour this would worsen deflation?

I reckon he would be quite happy to see the USA go back to Dickension times. I would like to ask him whether the restrictions on child labour are too harsh.

If you read the previous blurb he provides his answers to help the recovery.
Mish: Ideally we should find a way to phase out social security completely. Says it all really.

I'm surprised that you haven't mentioned slavery Mish. If the USA was a slave driven economy you could really beat the Chinese at their own game.

Oh, to be in his ivory tower looking benignly down on us all.

Sheesh!

(PS Can someone show Mish the movie Trading Places?)
 
Knobby22 said:
His has got me riled again!

Colorado has lowered the minimum wage to $7.24.
Mish is of course not happy with that. He wants the minimum wage requirement removed. Of course, he is against unions or any other ways that workers could defend themselves. Doesn't he undestand if you pay workers $2 an hour this would worsen deflation?

I reckon he would be quite happy to see the USA go back to Dickension times. I would like to ask him whether the restrictions on child labour are too harsh.

If you read the previous blurb he provides his answers to help the recovery.
Mish: Ideally we should find a way to phase out social security completely. Says it all really.

I'm surprised that you haven't mentioned slavery Mish. If the USA was a slave driven economy you could really beat the Chinese at their own game.

Oh, to be in his ivory tower looking benignly down on us all.

Sheesh!

(PS Can someone show Mish the movie Trading Places?)
Click to expand...

And exactly what killed the car industry in American? In the face of overwhelming evidences that suggest their generous pension plans and high wage is causing the car companies to become so uncompetitive, the union CONTINUE to argue for more wage raise, better benefits, etc, etc.

There was a case where the company was giving an ultimatum that if wages are not cut, then they have no choice but to make redundancies or worse, face bankruptcies. Of course, those crowns at the union don't understand basic business principles and only focus on the interest of their members and prefer everybody to lose (and without a job) than to have everyone to keep their job with less wage.

You actually assume if the minimum wage requirement was completely removed, then EVERY SINGLE companies would stay "enslaving" their employees by offering poverty-level wages and make the deflation worse. (you used $2 per hour) The fact is that companies would look to compete EACH other for the BEST and BRIGHTEST staff, and therefore, would compete on offering the best wages to keep these staff. There is no argument against this. You can say they could all gang up together as a monopoly group and force wages down to $1 per hour, but those employees ARE NOT SLAVE. They have a choice and can choose either not to work or move to another industry. Another company within that industry could pick off the best bunch out of others by offering a better wage, and therefore, create a competitive advantage.

This is called the FREE MARKET. Do you even understand that? Wages should NEVER BE DETERMINED through government policies/regulations, which are usually biased toward unions that provide votes to those in power. It's hinder innovation and economic development.

When unemployment is rising, it is FAR BETTER to keep those in the job and on a lower wage than to fire a portion of them which could lead to all sort of trouble, especially DEFAULTS on their debt obligation. The unions of course, don't care where the money is coming from or if the businesses can be sustained. They want to have their cake and eat it too.

This is why the manufacturing industries in the US is so uncompetitive in comparison to those in Asia. Regulations, regulations and more regulations. (note, more regulations are needed against fraud, but not in determining prices)
 
Temjin said:
And exactly what killed the car industry in American? In the face of overwhelming evidences that suggest their generous pension plans and high wage is causing the car companies to become so uncompetitive, the union CONTINUE to argue for more wage raise, better benefits, etc, etc.

There was a case where the company was giving an ultimatum that if wages are not cut, then they have no choice but to make redundancies or worse, face bankruptcies. Of course, those crowns at the union don't understand basic business principles and only focus on the interest of their members and prefer everybody to lose (and without a job) than to have everyone to keep their job with less wage.

You actually assume if the minimum wage requirement was completely removed, then EVERY SINGLE companies would stay "enslaving" their employees by offering poverty-level wages and make the deflation worse. (you used $2 per hour) The fact is that companies would look to compete EACH other for the BEST and BRIGHTEST staff, and therefore, would compete on offering the best wages to keep these staff. There is no argument against this. You can say they could all gang up together as a monopoly group and force wages down to $1 per hour, but those employees ARE NOT SLAVE. They have a choice and can choose either not to work or move to another industry. Another company within that industry could pick off the best bunch out of others by offering a better wage, and therefore, create a competitive advantage.

This is called the FREE MARKET. Do you even understand that? Wages should NEVER BE DETERMINED through government policies/regulations, which are usually biased toward unions that provide votes to those in power. It's hinder innovation and economic development.

When unemployment is rising, it is FAR BETTER to keep those in the job and on a lower wage than to fire a portion of them which could lead to all sort of trouble, especially DEFAULTS on their debt obligation. The unions of course, don't care where the money is coming from or if the businesses can be sustained. They want to have their cake and eat it too.

This is why the manufacturing industries in the US is so uncompetitive in comparison to those in Asia. Regulations, regulations and more regulations. (note, more regulations are needed against fraud, but not in determining prices)
Click to expand...

The American owned component of the US car industry is going broke because the are making cars no one wants to buy. You could pay the workers nothing and still they would fail. GM and Chrysler in particular.
This is despite much government largesse.

I stupidly bought a Chrysler in Australia. What a dog of a car. I have friends in the USA and they hate USA sedans. Ford does a good job but the others??

Secondly, the minimum wage is not for top performing engineers, it is for cleaners and people doing jobs which do not require great skills. That is who has to be protected.

Blaming the Unions for the fall of manufacture in the US is a furphy. Union power in the US is very weak. They have very few of the protections Australian or Europeaon unions have.

If you read some good economic works the failure is really caused by the change in culture of management. Once managers used to rise from the factory floor and engineers and accountants were trained to know how the company makes money and what is important.

The last 20 years, managers have come direct from Harvard and swap from company to company at high level, never really understanding the company they control. As they are trained the "Harvard" way, they have no clue on engineering, robotics etc. No CLUE! They frequently make awful decisions.

Blaming wages when it is such a small proportion of the companies costs (they do use robots) and is such a small proportion of what makes a company great is a fallacy.

Toyota and Honda with factories in the USA can afford to charge more for their cars because people want them.

Btw, the unions did agree to cuts in pay and loss of their pension plans. They are desperate to keep GM going. If only the managers could run it properly.

Now you say working for $1 is not slavery. They can walk away. I agree, except if you get rid of unemployment benefits, healthcare, the pension then when you hit 65 and any other form of protection and the unemployment rate is effectively 12% then where is the choice? If they have to work for $1 or die from starvation, it may not be slavery but it is close.

You may say that if they agreed to these wagess then GM will sell more cars bacuase they could reduce the cost. Balderdash. I have done a MBA and price is not the most important factor in many transactions. You can buy a cheap car made in Malaysia, cheaper than even the Korean cars. Who buys them in Australia? Virtually no one.

I know that to you Temjin, labour cost is what causes economies to not compete. it's not true. It is many factors including infrastructure, management and political smarts. Nokia is made in one of the highest paid nations on earth. Why don't we buy from one of the 300 manufacturers of mobile phones in China. Why are iPods popular? You can buy an LG one made in Korea.

BTW I'm for the free market. I just think those at the bottom of the heap deserve some protection.
 
Last post on Mish. I like his photography and can see he is a nice guy, but the next post from Steve Keen's blog says it all. Also, i don't want you all to think I'm a crank!

1Tao Jonesing
October 29th, 2009 at 6:11 pm
Prof. Keen,

Thanks for this post.

I’m a Yank (I don’t say that proudly; the dimunitive of Yankee invokes a certain tawdriness), and all I see is bad news. Your voice and David Rosenberg’s are pretty much the voices of reason around here, but nobody can find either of you unless they know where to look.

You could probably do a lot of good here in the States, if only you could teach Mish how to harmonize his inconsistent thoughts, which would require him to look past his ideology and truly embrace some of the ideas he accepts as truth. Seriously, Mish can read you and correspond with you and not realize how his belief system fails when your models apply. He simply has no clue and can have no clue because he came so close to utter failure (multiple years of being out of work involuntarily!!!) that he HAS to unswervingly believe in everything he believes in, whether it is true or not.

The damage wrought by neoclassical economics goes far beyond your discipline and well into neoliberal thought.

Please. Help us help ourselves.
 
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