Micro trades are driving me spare

[tech/a]

I tell you what guys.
Trading isn't for you.

If it was this sort of rubbish
Wouldn't be an issue to you.

Your not profitable because
Your not trading profitably
Not some external influence.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

The exact moment I hit ENTER, 10 new sellers appear at $1.02 and $1.03. As these get hit, or if they get hit, new volume appears at 1.02 and 1.03, often bot volume, preventing me from exiting. Same occurs when trying to buy.

...and the reason it stops anyone from buying my stock, is because no retail trader will buy into 2 lines of sellers worth say a total of $100 in order to get to some real volume (where my 'ask' is). What you'd do instead is put a bid in at $1.01. But of course if you do that, then what happens? The bot puts two lines of bids in front of yours with practically zero $ value, making sellers go WTF and wait for some real volume on the top line, which won't likely happen, because no one is going to sit themselves in the middle of the spread like that.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

I tell you what guys.
Trading isn't for you.

If it was this sort of rubbish
Wouldn't be an issue to you.

Your not profitable because
Your not trading profitably
Not some external influence.

It's not a problem for me because the second I see a bunch of bids/asks worth nothing crowding up the depth and pi$$fart1ng around the way they do, I'm out, I'm not interested. I go elsewhere. Whoever is fiddling with AGI and others has it all to themselves.

 

[Trembling Hand]

Gringotts Bank you're upset because someone is standing in front of you?!

 

[tech/a]

Ive never looked at AGI.
But what your saying is you haven't been able to profit from this move??

Those little trades just bugger you up?



Really??

 

[notting]

Whoever is fiddling with AGI and others has it all to themselves.

It just needs a stop that is deeper than mid or larg caps to get a peace of the trend.

 

[Ves]

I think the whole "bots are manipulating the market" theory is a load of crap, but I saw an algo (I think) buy 1 PMV share today to push the price up $0.07 to $5.35 on open! Lots of low volume trades like that this week and last, someone probably wants in quietly before Monday's 2012 results. A pity, I was looking to enter under $5 and was a bit tardy in my research.

 

[McLovin]

I think the whole "bots are manipulating the market" theory is a load of crap, but I saw an algo (I think) buy 1 PMV share today to push the price up $0.07 to $5.35 on open! Lots of low volume trades like that this week and last, someone probably wants in quietly before Monday's 2012 results. A pity, I was looking to enter under $5 and was a bit tardy in my research.

I've seen you and craft having a chat about PMV. I started buying down around $4.75 did my last bit of buying at $5.01 a couple of weeks ago. Much for the same reasons that you guys were interested.

And yeah, I don't buy the whole bot thing. Sounds like the old a poor tradesman blames his tools.

 

[Ves]

I've seen you and craft having a chat about PMV. I started buying down around $4.75 did my last bit of buying at $5.01 a couple of weeks ago. Much for the same reasons that you guys were interested.

And yeah, I don't buy the whole bot thing. Sounds like the old a poor tradesman blames his tools.

I was a bit lazy in part & a bit hesitant because of my inexperience with a lot of this stuff. In this case because I wanted to calculate a detailed ROIC & EBIT margins over the cycle which required figuring out the EBIT & assets employed for Just Group over the last decade. Digging through some of the old financials for JST was fun at least. The current EBIT margin of 2011 is the same now, as it was just before it listed. Which is the lowest of the decade. I believe 2002 was a pretty rough economic year too.

By the time I had got around to doing that last weekend to confirm my rough calcs it was only a week away from the financial report. So I figured waiting until I had an extra year of information couldn't hurt. Murphy's Law suggests that it would appreciate in value over this week, and it has. Bah! Although, there is probably not much point in quibbling over 10% on a long-term hold. It's still pretty cheap IMO.

 

[McLovin]

I was a bit lazy in part & a bit hesitant because of my inexperience with a lot of this stuff. In this case because I wanted to calculate a detailed ROIC & EBIT margins over the cycle which required figuring out the EBIT & assets employed for Just Group over the last decade. Digging through some of the old financials for JST was fun at least. The current EBIT margin of 2011 is the same now, as it was just before it listed. Which is the lowest of the decade. I believe 2002 was a pretty rough economic year too.

I love reading old financials. Or really any sort of corporate history. As Mark Twain said "history doesn't repeat, but it rhymes".

Although, there is probably not much point in quibbling over 10% on a long-term hold. It's still pretty cheap IMO.

Ask ROE about one of his favourite Phil Fisher quotes. It's quite apt.

 

[Ves]

Ask ROE about one of his favourite Phil Fisher quotes. It's quite apt.

Without derailing this thread too much further, he shared his quote when I wanted to buy CAB at $4.35 and didn't pay $4.37 at market when I had the chance. Stupid mistake. I kept waiting, should have bought at any stage sub-$5.00 in retrospect and never ended up getting any (and still didn't when it dropped again in the last few months) because I was busy buying other stuff.

 

[Tannin]

Without derailing this thread too much further ...

.....chuckle .....

Derail away good sir! 51 posts in the thread so far and only one of them bears directly on the original topic we started with. (Barney, take a bow. Your post was spot on!)

But no matter. I can aways start another thread another day. This one seems hopelessly off-topic already so it might as well continue in that direction. It has its own interest and I'll continue to follow it as time allows.

 

[tech/a]

.....chuckle .....

Derail away good sir! 51 posts in the thread so far and only one of them bears directly on the original topic we started with. (Barney, take a bow. Your post was spot on!)

But no matter. I can aways start another thread another day. This one seems hopelessly off-topic already so it might as well continue in that direction. It has its own interest and I'll continue to follow it as time allows.

Condescending. Crap.
You had the chance to re align but chose silence.
Wasted my time with rubbish --- again.

If that's what your all twisted about
Then ---- I and I'm sure a few others won't bother with you.

 

[Tannin]

Condescending. Crap.
You had the chance to re align but chose silence.
Wasted my time with rubbish --- again.

If that's what your all twisted about
Then ---- I and I'm sure a few others won't bother with you.

^ Excuse me, you haven't wasted any time responding to my post. You did have plenty of time to argue with someone else about things which were quite interesting to read but didn't bear on the topic - and that's fine - but abusing me because you were off-topic is offensive and nonsensical.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

^ Excuse me, you haven't wasted any time responding to my post. You did have plenty of time to argue with someone else about things which were quite interesting to read but didn't bear on the topic - and that's fine - but abusing me because you were off-topic is offensive and nonsensical.

If it was about brokers trying to force your hand by selling into a tiny portion of your bid, then yes I've seen that a few times. That can still be overcome by watching the depth closely and only buying at market.... if you have the time that is.

 

[tech/a]

Brokers trading small packages to manipulate markets.

Flying pink pigs
Rooster eggs
Men in white coats
Black suits.

Get a grip kiddies.

 

[nulla nulla]

Brokers trading small packages to manipulate markets.

Flying pink pigs........ Hmm, I see thes often when I come off the grog (or are they elephants?);
Rooster eggs........... I believe this is slang for "testicles";
Men in white coats...doesn't really go with the black suit, gets grubby to easy; and
Black suits..............The men in black movies are based on real events.

Get a grip kiddies.

My bold, amusing thread but a lot of noise.



Love this one. Thanks TS

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Brokers trading small packages to manipulate markets.

Flying pink pigs
Rooster eggs
Men in white coats
Black suits.

Get a grip kiddies.

I should say that I'm not looking for excuses. My account and its success/failure is only about what I do, not what anyone else does. Sometimes I see shifty things going on - price manipulation, insider trading and so on.... and I just do my best to steer clear.

Wherever big money is involved, there will be cheats. Maybe they're 1% of participants, maybe more. But it's wise to keep one eye out for them.

 

[Trembling Hand]

Sometimes I see shifty things going on - price manipulation, insider trading and so on.... and I just do my best to steer clear.

Wherever big money is involved, there will be cheats. Maybe they're 1% of participants, maybe more. But it's wise to keep one eye out for them.

Bloody hell GB, Don't try futs then.