Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

MF Global Australia - What are you doing?

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Nick29 said:
MF Global Canada accounts unfrozen, sent to RBC
RBC Dominion Securities to handle transfer to clients
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011...1V120111114?feedType=RSS&feedName=marketsNews
Click to expand...

Spotted this story earlier this morning as well. Good news that the Canadian customers don't have to wear the losses from the US arm.

MF Global Canada went into administration on the 4th November. 10 days later their accounts are transferred. In Australia were told "sometime between 3 - 12 months". Interesting comparing the priorities of various government regulators.:rolleyes:
 
Some news about funds tied up at DB:
DB has sort legal advice if they can offset a loss against the UK MF Global office. The good news is it is only a small amount ($2 mil).
My thoughts are as MF Global clients we should be all sending email / hassling our politician's to do something about DB. These guys have no ethics.
Yes! the pace in Aust is very slow!!!
 
Garpal Gumnut said:
Lets face it folks, your money is gone.

There is buckleys of you ever getting much if any back, as there is criminality at 3 or 4 levels of separation from you.

It sounds like a Storm Financial Mark2 in a way, litigation is the only option and the lawyers will suck most of it up anyway. The local dealers will fall back on the statements you all signed prior to opening your accounts.

gg
Click to expand...

I must adjust my pessimistic tone.

You will get 50% back I reckon, based on musings picked up from ABC NewsRadio, PBR and Deutsche Welle.

gg
 
Not sure how you arrived at the maths where you ended up with a 50% limit Garpal ? I am glad it gone up from the very pessimistic tone of "lets face it folks your money is gone".

As a CFD client I am looking at the current numbers ie: how much is in cash (in a Westpac account) & what's due from the counterparties to the Administrator:

Aust cfds Us/Euro cfds Aust Index Comm index

Gross $84 mil


Cash $30 mil

Due from $48 mil $4 mil $2 mil $1 mil

Counter Deutsche MF UK ASX MF
party

Offset (-$3 mil )
risk

For CFD's customers the only counterparty offset risk is Deutsche with $3 mil. I wrote about this in a earlier post.
ASX are in the process of returning the funds.

If for argument sake we take a $5 mil haircut (from all counterparties) then we will get back at least 95% of our funds.

For the remaining funds we could become a contingent creditor of MF Global Australia who have around $12 Mil in cash. Its a good sign that the ASX is in the process of handing back $34 mil out of the $37 mil of client seg funds.

My suggestions to CFD customers is keep highlighting the fact that Deutsche bank in Australia has a portion of our client segregated funds & they now need to return it ASAP as there are no open positions. I cant see them not doing it. Net income for the 3rd Qtr for Deutsche bank was 0.8 Billion Eur.

I am sure Deutsche bank in Australia want to remain in the Investment banking business & want to keep there good name.
 
I agree Hatton01, I also have funds tied up in a margin fx account and although I feel confident I will get most of the funds back I wouldn't like to put a % on it. What I do know is that it will be more than 50% with 80% cash already held.

I have found this forum has given me very useful information from some very well informed individuals. I have gained links to useful sites and others doing good work in trying to help to recover these funds for clients. It would be beneficial if all users where so well informed before they made comment, but ofcourse we can just ignore them. :rolleyes:
 
Hi Westie I arrived % by saying if we take a $5 million dollar haircut in the CFD pool.

79/84 = So getting back around 94% of our funds.

I arrived at the $5 mil by saying DB keeps the $3 mil offset risk and we have a shortfall from the other counter parties by another $2 mil.

Yes! this is a guess estimate no doubt.

Very true! many people have been working to get our money back asap & I thank them for it.
Lets hope this nightmare has a happy ending some time before Xmas.
 
To any CFD clients of MF Global. If you want to help the process along.

Pls give the DB press office a call & ask them if DB could issue a statement about the $48 Mil (ie: when will the margin be returned now that all CFD trades have been closed).

A hundred++ calls would be nice!

If we dont get any traction here the next step will be to get as many CFD clients to call in person at the Sydney office. I would be willing to come down from Brisbane for the day.

DB press office phone no:
Tel: 02 8258 2416
 
If you want DB to give funds back (and by the way DBA are in breach of Companies ACT client seg rules as they are written, by withholding them for their $3 million offset) then a statement showing what MFGA's cash balance with DBA is, and what the results of the close out of the positions is, should be demanded first. DBA has this information now - they would have had this as soon as the last position was closed out. This is ASIC's responsibilty to enforce that this statement gets released to MFGA or Deloitte now - why are ASIC not doing this??? By law clearers have to give these statements to their clients on a timely basis - this does not mean every 3 weeks!! Once the statements are released ASIC are in a position to force DBA to remit the balances to MFGA WITHOUT Set off - DBA has to rank equally with other customer balances of MFGA not ahead of them for their $3 million since they are also a customer

I just spoke to Deloitte - they advised the only thing holding them up making distributions was the lack of information regarding close outs and cash balances from DBA and ASX. THE ASX requires sign off from Deloitte locally and KPMG overseas (for other MF Global entities). KPMG overseas have not yet authorised the release of ASX funds back to MFGA as yet

I would ask everyone to give ASIC a call and demand the statments and cash balances from DBA - I have already done so twice. Surprise surprise they have not gotten back to me.

Also get it in the press everywhere that ASIC are being far too slow in enforcing their own rules. If ASIC can't enforce these rules, client seg rules in Australia have no meaning - because of this I have already withdrawn all funds at Australian brokers because they could not advise exactly where excess cash is being kept or assure me that it will remain there. You may wish to do the same given client seg rules are not being enforced.

They have a shortfall of client funds in the US of $600million, CME have guaranteed to cover at least $300 million and despite the net shortfall of $300 million some balance holders are still getting some of their cash back. There is supposedly no such problem in Australia yet there is no cash coming back - why not?? Ask ASIC!!
 
Hi Riskapur,

This was contained in the latest client update.
I AGREE with you 100%, there have been no issues in Aust yet we have not seen a dime of our money.

CFD clients

Deutsche Bank (DB) update

DB has indicated that information regarding the close out of MFGA positions will be provided shortly to the Administrators. DB advise all MFGA positions have been closed and they are now going through verification, legal processes and obtaining global sign off before providing the information and funds to the Administrators.
 
UK = better regulation?

Hi,

sorry if this may be slightly off topic, but after hearing all of the MF Global drama I'm considering opening my Account through a company in the UK. The Financial Services Authority there has a FSCS = Financial Services Compensation Scheme which basically offers a government guarantee for a certain amount of your deposited funds in case your CFD provider / broker becomes insolvent. As far as I understand this protection extends to non UK residents, too, you just have to have opened the account with the UK branch. This might be good if one considers joining CFD providers such as GFT which offer great value trading accounts (e.g. Silver account = no minimum commission on equity cfd's) but in Australia still use money in client accounts to hedge positions (not allowed in UK and not done by GFT UK).

Alternatively, in AUS, IG Markets seems to be the safest (but not necessarily cheapest)...


Has anyone looked into this or considered this? Any thoughts and opinions would be greatly appreciated.
 
Hi Riskapur,

So far the only person who has been help is ben butler at theage. I was able to pass on some info about DB holding onto our funds & it resulted in an article intheage on Sat.

I also contacted Mat Tinkler who is the chief of staff for Bill Shorten but the response was a standard one & didnt say much at all. Now where have I seen a response like this before (Yes Minister !!!).

Dear XXXXXX

Thanks for your email in relation to the insolvency of MF Global.

I understand that the insolvency of the US-based MF Global Inc has affected thousands of Australians who have accounts with the Australian subsidiary of the firm. While I appreciate that affected clients will be hoping for a speedy resolution of the situation and the return of as much of their investments as is possible, I note that the insolvency of the US-based parent and the administration of the Australian subsidiaries is a very complex, multi-jurisdictional matter. It is likely to take some time to fully resolve all claims.

At this stage it is too early to say whether clients and trading participants of ASX 24 will eventually recover their funds in full. The Australian Securities and Investments Commission (ASIC) is working closely with the administrators to seek resolution of outstanding client money, insolvency and market issues as soon as possible. The Government is monitoring events very closely. I understand that liquidity is returning to affected markets, including grain and wool futures, but operations of a number of participants and overall market volumes are expected to be affected for some time.

Where a client of MF Global’s Australian subsidiaries has queries, I encourage them to contact Deloitte as the administrators, in the first instance. The email address is mfgaustralia@deloitte.com.au . Notices and updates to clients and creditors are posted on www.deloitte.com/au/mfglobal (link also via/www.mfglobal.com.au)

ASIC also has an information line and a complaints handling team which investors can contact if they have outstanding concerns, having sought resolution from Deloitte. The contact number at ASIC in relation to this matter is 1300 300 630.

I trust that this information will be useful for you.

Regards,

Mat Tinkler

Chief of Staff

Office of Bill Shorten MP
 
Hi Hatton01

The articles in the media are a big help - so thanks for pushing this. The more media exposure on this the better - it should keep the pressure on ASIC, Deloitte and DBA. And yes agree that the letter from Bill Shorten's office does not really help us much. Buit at least you are in touch with them.

DBA's press release does not tell anyone anything - I don't understand why they cannot release the cash statement and position statement immediately if all positions are closed - they don't need a worldwide sign off for this - they are obligated to release the statement as part of their licensing obligations. Once ASIC and Deloitte see the statement they should be in a position to enfore client seg rules on DBA and demand the cash balances back. Why is it that we need a global sign off from DBA to conform to the Client Seg Rules that they signed up to when they first got their license? Shouldn't this be enforced by our regulator?
 

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