Mega Churches

[jonojpsg]

I'm always somewhat puzzled about why people who want to love their God find it necessary to be part of an organised Church. If you believe in God is it not sufficient to communicate with him/her/it privately? Does your faith need to be reinforced by gathering together with others to do the same thing in a group? And why do you need a leader, whether it be pastor or priest?

I'm not being critical here. If folk want to get together and sing hymns or whatever, then that's fine with me as long as they don't demand my participation or come calling at my door.

I just would have thought that a personal belief in a God didn't really require the endorsement of a bunch of other people.

I would have thought that was obvious. Not wanting to be "fundamentalist" or "exclusivist" or anything like that, but if one believes in Jesus Christ (and God the Father and Holy Spirit) then being a part of THE church is an integral part of that belief.

Believing in "God" is competely different to believing in Jesus Christ.

 

[chops_a_must]

I would have thought that was obvious. Not wanting to be "fundamentalist" or "exclusivist" or anything like that, but if one believes in Jesus Christ (and God the Father and Holy Spirit) then being a part of THE church is an integral part of that belief.

Believing in "God" is competely different to believing in Jesus Christ.

Well... I believe Jesus Christ was a real person. I don't think that is disputed. So... I believe in Jesus Christ don't I? Doesn't that make me a "Christian"? No. I don't think he would have advised people to be a part of a large organisation. In fact... I think in part that's what he was crusading against... mobs and their mentality. So why not just treat him like any other incredibly important person in human history?

 

[Julia]

I would have thought that was obvious. Not wanting to be "fundamentalist" or "exclusivist" or anything like that, but if one believes in Jesus Christ (and God the Father and Holy Spirit) then being a part of THE church is an integral part of that belief.

Believing in "God" is competely different to believing in Jesus Christ.

Well, haven't you just agreed with my point? I wasn't at all talking about Jesus Christ but rather about a faith in some sort of all encompassing spiritual being who followers believe in and trust. We most commonly say "God", Muslims say "Allah", etc.

Your post doesn't make it any clearer to me why a personal belief and/or faith in this God requires the believers to gather together in some sort of tribal organisation. If they participate in churches because they enjoy the social interaction, then I fully understand that. I just don't understand why a personal belief requires endorsement by others in the form of churches where someone (i.e. the priest, minister, pastor) runs everything.

Perhaps it's a pastoral consideration whereby the church as an organisation is able to care for its parishioners if they are in need. I get that also and like it. But I just don't see the connection between belief in God and an organisational structure in the firm of a church, many of which are corrupt in the extreme.

 

[sharechaser]

Brad K - Thanks for posting a very interesting topic

I'm not here to bag out mega churches either, but in my opinion many mega churches have some very serious problems, both from a biblical and a social point of view. I would be very keen to discuss this issue further so please feel free to PM me if you like.

I don't believe religion is about money however many people use religion, including christianity, for financial gain. Some mega churches I have been to have special collection messages before each collection to encourage people to give more, and many have 'clubs' for the church's biggest donators - despite the fact that Jesus advocated humble giving in the new testament.

The style and quality of leadership in mega churches i have been to are also worrying. Many pastors lack basic theological skills such as being able to read hebrew or greek, yet expect the members to agree with their teachings. I think ministers should encourage members to study the bible themselves and actively question what is being preached, so that people don't fall into the trap of following leaders blindly (something that seems to keep repeating itself in history).

Again, whilst not bagging out mega churches per se, i have a lot to say about them, and would appreciate an opportunity to discuss this further.
cheers
sharechaser

 

[Sprinter79]

RE: Religious schools

I got my **** halled over the coals one day when i mentioned 'condom' in a sex ed class, while I was on teaching prac there. According to the 'teachings' the only way to stop the spread of HIV, STI's and prevent pregnancies was not to have sex at all.

When you are trying to arm the next generation with as much information as you can, being severely hamstrung like this doesn't help.

Another thing that doesn't seem to have been raised yet is the place of women within religion, but that's a can of worms, so someone else can open it

 

[Ageo]

RE: Religious schools

I got my **** halled over the coals one day when i mentioned 'condom' in a sex ed class, while I was on teaching prac there. According to the 'teachings' the only way to stop the spread of HIV, STI's and prevent pregnancies was not to have sex at all.

When you are trying to arm the next generation with as much information as you can, being severely hamstrung like this doesn't help.

Another thing that doesn't seem to have been raised yet is the place of women within religion, but that's a can of worms, so someone else can open it

Sprinter my wife teaches at a catholic school and she has no problems with sex ed (condoms etc..). I think you will find some schools will be more lax than others when discussing these areas.

 

[2020hindsight]

RE: Religious schools

I got my **** halled over the coals one day when i mentioned 'condom' in a sex ed class, while I was on teaching prac there. According to the 'teachings' the only way to stop the spread of HIV, STI's and prevent pregnancies was not to have sex at all.

When you are trying to arm the next generation with as much information as you can, being severely hamstrung like this doesn't help.

Another thing that doesn't seem to have been raised yet is the place of women within religion, but that's a can of worms, so someone else can open it

amen -
as for women in religion - why would a woman voluntarily join Islam ?? - better not go there - it always gets messy lol.

And as for the Vatican on sex and/or the murderous spread of aids ... sheesh

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=189254&highlight=zimmerman#post189254
"Abstain With Me" by Roy Zimmerman

SHOW THEM, JESUS !!
there are those who preach from pulpits what can only lead to aids
while the cemetries are full pits , like the craziest crusades
like the matador in bull pits , where the bull must die in pain
or like sheep deprived of woolclip, just before some freezing rain.

they can’t hear the people crying, with their nose pressed in a book
show them, Jesus, people dying, and which Bible page to look,
tell them those who seek confession as an answer for their sin
cannot use the same excuse next week, it’s out there in the bin.

tell them you were first and foremost just a teacher who was kind
and the world deserves some moral law (and you were such a find)
tell them should they find some pages in that book (you never signed)
that suggested people die in pain, then TEAR IT FROM ITS BIND!!

 

[jonojpsg]

Well, haven't you just agreed with my point? I wasn't at all talking about Jesus Christ but rather about a faith in some sort of all encompassing spiritual being who followers believe in and trust. We most commonly say "God", Muslims say "Allah", etc.

Your post doesn't make it any clearer to me why a personal belief and/or faith in this God requires the believers to gather together in some sort of tribal organisation. If they participate in churches because they enjoy the social interaction, then I fully understand that. I just don't understand why a personal belief requires endorsement by others in the form of churches where someone (i.e. the priest, minister, pastor) runs everything.

Perhaps it's a pastoral consideration whereby the church as an organisation is able to care for its parishioners if they are in need. I get that also and like it. But I just don't see the connection between belief in God and an organisational structure in the firm of a church, many of which are corrupt in the extreme.

The problem here is our understanding of "this God". "The God" who sent his Son in the person of Jesus Christ is not "the God" you refer to. Jesus, who is God, encouraged his followers to gather together, pray and worship the Father. As I said, if you don't believe in Jesus then obviously you won't feel any need to go to church as you are not a Christian.

 

[jonojpsg]

Well... I believe Jesus Christ was a real person. I don't think that is disputed. So... I believe in Jesus Christ don't I? Doesn't that make me a "Christian"? No. I don't think he would have advised people to be a part of a large organisation. In fact... I think in part that's what he was crusading against... mobs and their mentality. So why not just treat him like any other incredibly important person in human history?

Sorry Chops, but believing that Jesus Christ was a real person doesn't actually require faith or action or make you a Christian. Anyone who can read history (or a calendar, eg BC/AD) knows that Jesus Christ was a real person.

Believing "in" Jesus Christ means that you accept his claims to be God and do something about it, eg repent and live the way he wants you to.

 

[chops_a_must]

Believing "in" Jesus Christ means that you accept his claims to be God and do something about it, eg repent and live the way he wants you to.

How can he be both god and at the same time, the son of god?

 

[Julia]

The problem here is our understanding of "this God". "The God" who sent his Son in the person of Jesus Christ is not "the God" you refer to. Jesus, who is God, encouraged his followers to gather together, pray and worship the Father. As I said, if you don't believe in Jesus then obviously you won't feel any need to go to church as you are not a Christian.

OK. Very confusing though.
I echo Chops' question.

 

[macca]

My thoughts are that all religions have been created my mankind and consequently are subject to flaws and interpretations.

However, FAITH is about believing in a greater being, which in the English language is the word God, in arabic it is Allah.

I am quite happy to have faith in God, I also believe in karma, by combining both of these I am very comfortable within my skin

 

[Rafa]

aren't we going off topic here....
which is mega churches... and the alleged commercialisation of religion / faith???



to bring it back on topic...

i am no fan of mega churches, but not having been to one, my view is based on what i hear...

to me the proof of the benefit/harm of any church/belief (be it atheist or religious) is in the pudding...
i.e. how to you live your life and how do you treat others

if you live your life making the lives of other better.... thats good.
end of story.

 

[Sprinter79]

Do the Exclusive Bretheren count as a mega church?


They are stupidly rich, and have some massive hidden agendas. When you effectively own whole towns (ie Dalwallinu in WA) there's troubles.