Meditation and Trading

[coyotte]

Dhukka :

What initiated this thread was that I was browsing through "Trading in the Zone" with the view of rereading it for an upteenth time, when I came across the part where Douglas is talking about the seemingly conflicting emotions of Confidence and Fear and what you Fear you eventually bring around.
I then came across the post by Nick Radge.

I thought we can all understand these principles on a logical level, agree with them and vow to employ them, but the trouble is with out practical training and constant practice it never seems to happen.
Besides where would one get this training?

I knew meditation and particuarly Vispassana evolved around the principles being discussed and could be practiced by anyone at anytime, gradually bring around the changes in the physic needed.

The Question at hand:

At first glance they do appear at odds, but when you dig deeper mainly no.
The part where Nick is talking about analysing your emotions may be in conflict, what is being said appears to be "personalising" with them which is a NO, NO! -- But he does say that in doing this he had a third person -- hence the Doctor/Patient concept -- you would have to ask Nick.

Where he is talking about the key word REACT to the Trade in "Elation or Anger" and ATTACHMENT to your analysis -- we are both saying the same thing.

"Zero Emotion" and being "Aware of your emotions" is just another way of putting it -- you ACT and stop REACTING.

You cannot free yourself from THOUGHT -- thoughts are constaintly arising, the best you can do is to reign in the dwelling in the past/future cycle and be in the present moment.

We do this all the time eg: when watching a movie, doing a tedious task, absorbed in a book -- kids do it playing computer games.
So meditation is not something we are not used to -- it just something that most have never bothered to use to their own benefit.

If anyone Knows of a course that is about what Nick Radge is describing PLEASE post its whereabouts.

Cheers

 

[coyotte]

Should be a good day to test this out.

If you're caught up in a price drop before you REACT take a moment to:


Observe what feelings you have in the chest/throat area.

This is probably anger

Just observe it and try and describe it for a minute.

This will divert the mind -- but more importantly will disperse the energy.

Wait till your breathing returns to normal.

You should now be back to your rational mind -- now you can make a far more rational decision -- now you can ACT.



Cheers

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

Coyotte,
Lets meditate together some day.
I see you joined Souls site what do you think? Something to learn heh?

 

[Gringotts Bank]

from http://www.swamij.com/yoga-sutras-20109.htm#2.4

A most important practice in Yoga: Cultivating self-awareness of the five kleshas is one of the most important foundation practices in the entire science of Yoga. Note that in Chapter 1 of the Yoga Sutra, the first four sutras describe or define Yoga, and that the very next sutra (1.5) introduces the concept of the many levels of thought patterns being either klishta (colored) or aklishta (uncolored). Now, in this current sutra (and Kriya Yoga in general), the concept is expanded, describing the nature of the five individual kleshas [mental states that cloud the mind]. In Kriya Yoga, the gross level of coloring is dealt with (2.1), while the next few sutras begin the process of dealing with the subtler colorings (2.10-2.11, 2.12-2.25). It works in stages, first reducing the gross, and then the subtle. To be aware of the practice of self-awareness or witnessing of the kleshas of our own mind is a very useful thing to do.

The five kleshas: Each of the five kleshas are described separately in the forthcoming sutras:

Avidya (2.4, 2.5) = spiritual forgetting, ignorance, veiling, nescience
Asmita (2.6) = associated with I-ness
Raga (2.7) = attraction or drawing to, addiction
Dvesha (2.8) = aversion or pushing away, hatred
Abhinivesha (2.9) = resistance to loss, fear of death of identity, desire for continuity, clinging [to life]

Four stages of kleshas: The five colorings (klishta) of individual deep thought patterns are in one of four states. These are described in the next sutra (2.4), as part of introducing specifics about the nature of the five kleshas themselves.

Allow streams of individual thoughts to flow: One of the best ways to get a good understanding of witnessing the kleshas (colorings) is to sit quietly and intentionally allow streams of individual thoughts to arise. This doesn't mean thinking or worrying. It literally is an experiment in which you intentionally let an image come. It is easiest to do with what seem to be insignificant impressions.

For example, imagine a fruit, and notice what comes to mind. An apple may come to mind, and you simply note "Attraction" if you like it, or are drawn to it. It may not be a strong coloring, but maybe you notice there is some coloring. You may think of a pear, and note that there is an ever so slight "aversion" because you do not like pears.

Experiment with colorings: Allow lots of such to images come. One of the things I have done often with people is to grab about 10-15 small stones in my hand, and ask a person to pick one they like. Then I ask them to pick one they are less drawn to (few people will say they "dislike" one of the stones). It is a very simple experiment that demonstrates the way in which attractions and aversions are born. It is easier at first to experiment with witnessing thoughts for which there is only slight coloring, only a small amount of attraction or aversion.

You can easily run such experiments with many objects arising into the field of mind from the unconscious. You can also easily do this by observing the world around you. Notice the countless ways in which your attention is drawn to this or that object or person, but gently or strongly turns away from other objects or people.

Though it is a bit harder to do, notice the countless objects you pass by everyday for which there is no response whatsoever. These are examples of neutral impressions in the mind field.

Gradually witness stronger colorings: By observing in this way, it is easier to gradually witness stronger attractions and aversions in a similar way. When we can begin the process of witnessing the type of coloring, then we can start the process of attenuating the coloring, which is discussed in the next section.

Four stages of coloring: The starting point is to observe what is the current state of the coloring of individual thought patterns. This self-awareness practice becomes a gentle companion in daily life and during meditation:

1. Active, aroused (udaram): Is the thought pattern active on the surface of the mind, or playing itself out through physical actions (through the instruments of action, called karmendriyas, which include motion, grasping, and speaking)? These thought patterns and actions may be mild, extreme, or somewhere in between. However, in any case, they are active.

2. Distanced, separated, cut off (vicchinna): Is the thought pattern less active right now, due to there being some distance or separation. We experience this often when the object of our desire is not physically in our presence. The attraction or aversion, for example, is still there, but not in as active a form as if the object were right in front of us. It is as if we forgot about the object for the now. It is actually still colored, but just not active (but also not really attenuated).

3. Attenuated, weakened (tanu): Has the thought pattern not just been interrupted, but actually been weakened or attenuated? Sometimes we can think that a deep habit pattern has been attenuated, but it really has not been weakened. When we are not in the presence of the object of attachment or aversion, that separation can appear to be attenuation, when it actually is just not seen in the moment.

This is one of the big traps of changing the habits or conditionings of the mind. First, it is true that we need to get some separation from the active stage to the distanced stage, but then it is essential to start to attenuate the power of the coloring of the thought pattern.

4. Dormant, latent, seed (prasupta): Is the thought pattern in a dormant or latent form, as if it were a seed that is not growing at the moment, but which could grow in the right circumstances?

The thought pattern might be temporarily in a dormant state, such as when asleep, or when the mind is distracted elsewhere. However, when some other thought process comes, or some visual or auditory image comes in through the eyes and ears, the thought pattern is awakened again, with all of its coloring.

Eventually the seed of the colored thought can be burned in the fire of meditation, and a burnt seed can no longer grow.

Where does all of this go? Through the process of Yoga meditation, the thought patterns are gradually weakened, then can mostly remain in a dormant state. Then, in deep meditation the "seed" of the dormant can eventually be burned, and a burned seed can no longer grow. Then, one is free from that previously colored thought pattern.

Example: An example will help to understand the way these four stages work together. We'll use the physical example of four people, in relation to smoking cigarettes, because the example can be so clear. The principles apply not only to objects such as cigarettes, but also to people, opinions, concepts, beliefs, thoughts or emotions. The principle also applies not only to gross level thoughts, but the subtlest of mental impressions.

Person A: Has never smoked and has never felt any desire to smoke. When Person A sees a cigarette, he recognizes what it is. There is a memory impression in the chitta, but it is completely neutral--it just is a matter or recognition. It is not colored; it is aklishta. (The thought of cigarettes might be colored by aversion, if he is offended by smoking, but that is a different example.)
Person B: Has smoked for many years, but then quit several years ago. Occasionally she still says, "I'd kill for a cigarette!" but does not smoke due to health reasons. Her deep impression of cigarettes remains colored, and is actively playing out in both the unconscious and conscious, waking states. At times, the impression of cigarettes might not be active, such as when she is asleep, or doing some other distracting activity. However, at the latent level, the impression is still very colored in a potential form.
Person C: Has smoked for many years, but then quit several years ago. He always says, "Oh, no, I don't want a cigarette; I never even think about it." At the same time his gestures and body language reveal something different. He may have very colored mental impressions of attachment, but they are not allowed to surface into consciousness. There is separation from the thought pattern, but the coloring has not truly been attenuated (even though it goes into latent form during sleep, or when the mind is distracted). This kind of blocking the coloring is not what is intended in Yoga science.
Person D: Smoked for many years, but then quit several years ago. After some time of struggling with the separation or cutting off phase (Vicchinna), she then sat with this desire during meditation, allowed the awareness of the attachment to rise, gently refrained from engaging the impressions, and watched the coloring gradually fade. During that time, the thought patterns were sometimes active, sometimes separated, and sometimes temporarily dormant. However, it is now as if she were a non-smoker. The desire has returned to seed form or is completely gone, not only when asleep, or when the mind is distracted, but also when in the presence of cigarettes in the external world.

Notice the stage of individual thoughts: We want to observe our thinking process often, in a gentle, non-judging way, noticing the stage of the coloring of thought patterns. It can be great fun, not just hard work. The mind is quite amusing the way that it so easily and quickly goes here and there, both internally and through the senses, seeking out and reacting to the objects of desire. (See also the article on the four functions of mind)

There are many thoughts traveling in the train of mind, and many are colored. This is how the mind works; it is not good or bad. By noticing the colored thought patterns, understanding their nature by labeling them, we can increasingly become a witness to the whole process, and in turn, become free from the coloring. Then, the spiritual insights can more easily come to the forefront of awareness in life and meditation.

Train the mind about coloring: An extremely important part of attenuating, or reducing the coloring of the colored thought pattern is to train the mind that this coloring is going to bring nothing but further trouble (This is described in Sutra 2.33).

It means training the mind that, "This is not useful!". This simple training is the beginning of attenuating the coloring (The process starts with observing, but then moves on to attenuating). It is similar to training a small child; it all begins by labeling and saying what is useful and not useful. Note that this is not a moral judgment as to what is good or bad. It is more like saying whether it is more useful to go left or right when taking a journey.

Often, we are stuck in a cycle: Often in life, we find that the colored thought patterns move between active and separated stages, and then back to active. They go in a cycle between these two. Either they are actively causing challenges, or we are able to get some distance from them, like taking a vacation.

Break the cycle: However, it is possible that we may never really attenuate them when engaged in such a cycle, let alone get the colorings down into seed form, when we are stuck in this cycle. It is important to be aware of this possibility, so that we can intentionally pursue the process of weakening the strength of the coloring.

Meditation attenuates coloring: This is where meditation can be of tremendous value in getting free from these deep impressions (2.11). We sit quietly, focusing the mind, yet intentionally allow the cycling process to play out, right in front of our awareness. Gradually it weakens, so we can experience the deeper silence, where we can come in greater touch with the spiritual aspects of meditation.

 

[tech/a]

o-h-mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Gringotts Bank]

o-h-mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

http://www.swamij.com/yoga-sutras-12329.htm

 

[Gringotts Bank]

http://bps-research-digest.blogspot.com/2006/08/intuition-enhanced-by-drug.html

One way to interpret this paper is that being in "memory mode" is detrimental to accurate perception. This then implies that being in the present moment (free from thoughts of past or future) is beneficial to trading. Becoming 'present' can be achieved by making yourself happier and/or through meditation.

 

[noirua]

8 hours of this, longest on YouTube, should fix something. If not I can only say you are, "ALL AT SEA".

 

[noirua]

No this one is even longer!

 

[noirua]

 

[noirua]

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

I gather from your posts @noirua that weed is getting through to Castel again after the interregnum of Covid19.

gg

 

[noirua]

I gather from your posts @noirua that weed is getting through to Castel again after the interregnum of Covid19.

gg

"Interregnum" is the term used in the Anglican Communion to describe the period before a new parish priest is appointed to fill a vacancy. During an interregnum, the administration of the parish is the responsibility of the churchwarden.

"castel" a protector of a castle.

A 'weed' is a plant considered undesirable in a particular situation, "a plant in the wrong place". Examples commonly are plants unwanted in human-controlled settings, such as farm fields, gardens, lawns, and parks.

You've got me there?
Maybe it means:

I gather from your posts that unwanted plants are getting through to the protector of the castle's lawns again after the vacancy of the parish priest due to contracting the coronavirus.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

"Interregnum" is the term used in the Anglican Communion to describe the period before a new parish priest is appointed to fill a vacancy. During an interregnum, the administration of the parish is the responsibility of the churchwarden.

"castel" a protector of a castle.

A 'weed' is a plant considered undesirable in a particular situation, "a plant in the wrong place". Examples commonly are plants unwanted in human-controlled settings, such as farm fields, gardens, lawns, and parks.

You've got me there?
Maybe it means:

I gather from your posts that unwanted plants are getting through to the protector of the castle's lawns again after the vacancy of the parish priest due to contracting the coronavirus.

I have lived in Guernsey and Castel is the largest Parish there. Your info displays you are from Guernsey. You could not be from your reply.

I am confused. Are you also not from England ??

@noirua I will not explain the other references until you are grounded ( GPS talk ).

gg

 

[noirua]

I have lived in Guernsey and Castel is the largest Parish there. Your info displays you are from Guernsey. You could not be from your reply.

I am confused. Are you also not from England ??

@noirua I will not explain the other references until you are grounded ( GPS talk ).

gg

Well done sir! You were not supposed to know that. The local and open market property laws are a problem as you may know and St Peter Port is Guernsey really and there isn't much else from my point of view.

 

[Dona Ferentes]

and the Latin cognate would be rex .... as in The King is dead, long live the uneasy head that will wear the Crown