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Los Angeles Fire storm

Some information from those on location -

 
Trump Jnr was quoted as saying Ukraine was to blame for the fires. Trump Snr quite happily pointing the finger at all and sundry for the out of control fires.
Perhaps much less gas bagging and perhaps a helpful approach towards those who have been devastated and lost everything.
In my opinion this not the time for political one upmanship and point scoring.
 

Oh, I did not read any of that in the article. It's more about how they got to this sad stage, such as poor governance and voter decisions.
 
Oh, I did not read any of that in the article. It's more about how they got to this sad stage, such as poor governance and voter decisions.
Easy to make judgements with hindsight, but this disaster seemed to result from a coincidence of adverse factors that could not be prevented, such as low rainfall and incredible gale force winds that was very difficult to counter.
 
Easy to make judgements with hindsight, but this disaster seemed to result from a coincidence of adverse factors that could not be prevented, such as low rainfall and incredible gale force winds that was very difficult to counter.

Read the article, the issues could have been drastically minimised starting from decisions in 1988.

Proof can be seen in SA and Victoria, where past devasting fires caused all to take action to help prevent and minimise future fires and their devasting effects. Things like new building codes, restricting where buildings and development can take place, adding regulations such as water storage on properties and sprinkler systems, enforcement of plant material around properties, etc.
 

John all of these points could indeed assist with reducing fuel, improving on site fire suppression measures, dramatically improve building safety in the event of a fire. But realistically most of these measures would not have been supported by developers, builders, home owners or even the local authorities. They would have been seen as "overkill" "nanny state intervention" "anti free market" .

But there is a core issue with this fire and the extreme nature of other natural disasters around the world.

The world is warming rapidly due to climate change. The massive extra heat in the atmosphere is accelerating the drying out of vegetation. The extra heat energy is increasing the strength of thunderstorms, normal storms, winds, hurricanes. In the case of wildfire the result is the very marked increase in fire intensity to the point that traditional fire fighting measures are no longer capable of slowing these outbreaks. Firefighters around the world have recognized this change in fire behaviour caused by long term increases in temperatures.

Since the 1990's the CSIRO has made it clear that global warming is real, it's happening and that will be consequences with regard to cropping, fires and the actual liveability of many areas. Discussions about bringing in new building regulations, land clearing and restrictions on land development can be found across all their advice. And what has happened as a result ?

Ask The National Party and Peter Dutton. Check out ASF forums for an on the ground view of community thinking.

Anyway this is only the start of what global warming is bringing. Relentlessly rising sea levels and the havoc that will create is the next slow motion catastrophe.

 
This link offers a free download of the Climate Research up to 2011 at the CSIRO.
What has happened from 2011 to 2023 ? The global temperature graph tells it all.

This comparison graph shows global temperature averages over time calculated by NASA and other organizations, including Europe’s Copernicus Climate Change Center, the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, Berkeley Earth, the UK’s Met Office and Duo Chan. The averages are set against a common baseline of 1981-2000.
NASA/Gavin Schmidt

 

Two things there: my comment was "I did not read any of that in the article. It's more about how they got to this sad stage, such as poor governance and voter decisions."

And secondly, yes 'climate change' is happening but it has been going on since the planet was created.

There is an interesting Attenborough documentary on Tasmania, in it he shows us the worlds tallest Eucalypts. The thing is that the tree only regenerates when there is a bushfire, and the last time there was a bushfire in that rain forest was 500 years ago, so those trees are 500 years old and none have grown. It shows that those trees are the same as on the mainland and reguivinate when there is fire.
 
There were two graps from The Economist article that bear a closer look.




In the Blaze of misery graph the current active fires have only been going 6 days. How long had the previous fires been burning ? Minimum 13 rough average around mid 20's. I don't think anyone believes the current fires will stop within the next week.

This seems to be the first time such a major fire has occurred in January ie Winter. This reflects the record dry year reducing the fuel to tinder dryness. It also reflects the strength of the winds that fanned these fires. There is no longer a fire season as such.
 
Just trying to be balanced.
John, that's not balance.
That's BS

"The climate is always changing " Yes. Indeed it has and our understanding of science, geography, astronomy ect allows use to understand the various reasons for the historical changes in the Earths climate. And incidentally these changes generally happened over long periods of time (unless there was a cataclsymic volcanic eruption or asteroid strike )

That same science now tells that the huge human created increase in greenhouse gases over the past 50 years is creating the current surge in temperatures.

Unless of course your the imminent President of the United States in which case its all a hoax isn't it ?
 

As my example showed, the climate is always changing.

There is an interesting Attenborough documentary on Tasmania, in it he shows us the worlds tallest Eucalypts. The thing is that the tree only regenerates when there is a bushfire, and the last time there was a bushfire in that rain forest was 500 years ago, so those trees are 500 years old and none have grown. It shows that those trees are the same as on the mainland and rejuvenate when there is fire.

How did a tree that needs a bushfire for its seeds to germinate get to a rain forest where there are no bushfires?

The answer is that the location was once drier and hotter that it is now.

Have you been to the Naracoorte Caves? The flora & fauna fossil indicate an environment that was wetter & cooler and changed before humans (I presume that it changed before humans started controlled bushfires).



 
There's essentially two separate issues there albeit with the same outcome.
 
There's essentially two separate issues there albeit with the same outcome.
Indeed there are.

The first conversation is about long term climate changes which are largely driven by natural forces or extreme externalities. And yes the climate is always changing in some way as a result of these factors - usually slowly over many hundreds/thousands of years

The second conversation is about the extreme climate change that has happened in the past 50 years that has been driven almost entirely by human produced greenhouse gases and now threatens to make large parts of the earth too hot for current ecosystems.

Referencing the first discussion and then ignoring the reality of human influence on climate in the present situation is at the core of our current problems.
 
The NASA website goes into excellent detail on Climate Change it's causes effects and how carefully global temperatures are measured.

Always worth a look to understand why we are frying.

Given the views of the next President that all of this is a hoax I wouldn't count on the information still being available next week. On the scale of decision making simply declaring all this data a Chinese hoax is quite within Donald Trumps remit and the willingness of his climate denier satraps to follow his wishes


This is How Scientists Measure Global Temperature


The global temperature record of the past century shows that Earth is warming at an unprecedented rate. 2024 was the hottest year on record, and the past 10 years have been the warmest in recorded history. Each of the last four decades has been warmer than any decade that preceded it, dating back to 1850.

This global warming has been caused by human activities, primarily the emission of heat-trapping greenhouse gases, according to the 2023 synthesis report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. And we’re seeing the impacts in heat waves, wildfires, intense rainfall, and coastal flooding.

Global Data Collection
Global Temperature is Measured Using Anomalies
Are We Just Averaging the Anomalies?
Correcting for 'Urban Heat Islands'
Temperature Records Agree
El Niño and La Niña Don't Impact the Long-Term Trend
1.5 °C Milestone
1-2 Degrees of Global Warming Matters
How NASA's Temperature Record Began
Refining the Method
We're Seeing it At the Local Levels
References and Sources

 
Easy to make judgements with hindsight, but this disaster seemed to result from a coincidence of adverse factors that could not be prevented, such as low rainfall and incredible gale force winds that was very difficult to counter.
Didn't want to comment, but in the name of balance.
Wasn't the lack of water an issue?
I guess everyone is angry, but hey blame Trump, that works with a small minority and will just strenghen the plebs anger against the elites.
It will end badly, the media is better off just letting politics run their course, constantly bagging Trump will end badly for them, just let it go IMO.

 
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