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Los Angeles Fire storm

Some information from those on location -

How will calamity change Los Angeles?

Short-sighted policies amplified the destruction. Will LA–and California–learn from their mistakes?

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“MY HUSBAND saw a glow on the hill,” explains Laurie Bilotta. She’s standing in her backyard in Pasadena pointing at Eaton Canyon, a popular hiking spot. Her eyes are trained on the spot where the Eaton Fire broke out on January 7th. In the few seconds it took for Bob, her husband, to yell “fire!”, the flames had grown to her height. Then “the whole mountain just exploded. There were just flames everywhere.” The couple grabbed their two Siamese cats and drove south towards safety. By some miracle their house survived.

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Chart: The Economist
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The Eaton Fire is one of several that have swept across Los Angeles County. At least 24 people have died and more than 12,000 buildings have been destroyed. Parts of Altadena, a mixed-income neighbourhood set ablaze by windblown embers, look as though a bomb went off. Only small remnants—a toy truck, a swing set, one very resilient lemon tree—are left amid the ashes.

With high winds and no rain in sight, the fires are far from contained. Already, experts are predicting that they will prove the costliest in America’s history: not because of their size, but because of where they broke out. With nearly 10m residents, LA County is more populous than 40 of America’s 50 states. Many Angelenos live in picturesque neighbourhoods, set against the mountains, that are extremely vulnerable to wildfires. A typical home in Pacific Palisades, a ritzy area razed by the flames, cost more than $3m before the fire.

Even as firefighters battle against the flames, locals are asking two questions. How could Los Angeles have prepared better for this calamity? And how will it change America’s second city?

Fires are common around Los Angeles because of its terrain and dryness, but several factors have added to their destructive power. Climate change has increased the risk of conflagration. California is seeing more weather “whiplash”, where fires follow heavy rainfall. Los Angeles was bombarded with atmospheric rivers during the past two years, delivering heavier rain than usual. LA’s vegetation flourished. But a lack of rain since May dried out those same plants, and primed them to burn.

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It doesn’t help that non-native species have proliferated in the mountains around LA. Invasive grasses have replaced fire-resistant chaparral on the foothills. Research from Patrick Brown of the Breakthrough Institute suggests that clearing flammable vegetation around Los Angeles could reduce fire intensity in 2050 by roughly 15% relative to today. But federal and state laws often require onerous environmental reviews that can delay prescribed burns for years.

The city’s building code is fairly strict, requiring new homes to be reasonably fire-resistant. But NIMBYism makes it hard to build new homes at all, so much of the existing stock pre-dates the beefing up of the building code. Old neighbourhoods, full of homes with flammable wooden parts, stretch into the foothills. Narrow, winding roads ramble through the canyons, leaving little room for firetrucks or mass evacuations. In the unincorporated parts of LA County, such as Altadena, nearly 90% of homes were built before 1990. In fact, the largest share of houses was constructed in the 1950s during LA’s postwar building boom.

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Photograph: AP

Californian politics has also hampered LA’s response to the fires. Not because water was diverted from cities to save “an essentially worthless fish called a smelt”, as Donald Trump wrote on Truth Social. But the state’s penchant for policymaking by ballot measure (ie, referendum) has made it harder to fund public services, such as firefighting, and distorted California’s home-insurance market. In 1978 Californians voted to cut the property-tax rate and limit future increases. Local tax revenues plummeted. To make up for the fiscal shortfall, cities slapped fees on development projects, which raised the cost of new construction.

In 1988 another ballot initiative, Proposition 103, limited how much insurers can raise their rates. So premiums do not reflect the true (and rising) risk of owning inadequately fireproofed homes in the most fire-prone areas. Several insurance firms, unable to afford the cost of reinsurance, have left the state. California’s insurance commissioner last week banned insurers from cancelling the policies of clients living in areas affected by the fires for one year, thus making the state even less attractive to insurers.

When the smoke clears, the fires could change Los Angeles in several ways. There will be political repercussions, for a start. Karen Bass, the city’s mayor, travelled to Ghana despite fire-weather warnings. It is not odd for mayors to make foreign trips, and Ms Bass only presides over part of the county—how prepared Altadena or Pasadena is for wildfire is not up to her. But her absence while the city burned may not play well with voters, and Ms Bass faces re-election next year. Her response to the fires will feature prominently in that campaign.

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Some residents may leave. Recent polling from the Public Policy Institute of California (PPIC), a think-tank, suggests that a quarter of Angelenos have considered moving to avoid the effects of climate change. Yet Americans more broadly are moving into risky areas, not away from them. A bigger threat to LA’s population growth is that housing costs may rise as Angelenos displaced by the fires search for somewhere to live. Some 47% of Los Angeles residents surveyed by PPIC in 2023 said they had thought about quitting because of housing costs.

Another big question is whether Los Angeles will rebuild better. Playing host to some World Cup games in 2026, the Super Bowl in 2027 and the Olympics in 2028 will focus minds. Officials will want to show the world that LA has recovered. Gavin Newsom, the state’s Democratic governor, says he is organising a “Marshall Plan” for the city, a reference to the aid America sent Europe to rebuild after the second world war. “We already have a team looking at reimagining LA 2.0,” he says. To this end he issued an executive order streamlining the rebuilding of homes in burned areas.

New homes will be subject to modern fire codes, which will help. Stephanie Pincetl, who runs the California Centre for Sustainable Communities at the University of California, Los Angeles, thinks the city should seize this opportunity to ease its housing shortage by building denser, mixed-use neighbourhoods. You can have palatial apartments, she offers, “but then you have places where the cleaning lady can actually live and not have to take a bus for an hour and a half across town.” Looking across a charred Eaton Canyon, Mr Bilotta points out a few mansions on the hilltop across the way. After a big fire wiped them out in 1993, bigger ones were built in their place. He thinks the same thing will happen this time around. “There will be more larger homes over there,” he says. “That’s just a guess.” ■
 
Trump Jnr was quoted as saying Ukraine was to blame for the fires. Trump Snr quite happily pointing the finger at all and sundry for the out of control fires.
Perhaps much less gas bagging and perhaps a helpful approach towards those who have been devastated and lost everything.
In my opinion this not the time for political one upmanship and point scoring.
 
Trump Jnr was quoted as saying Ukraine was to blame for the fires. Trump Snr quite happily pointing the finger at all and sundry for the out of control fires.
Perhaps much less gas bagging and perhaps a helpful approach towards those who have been devastated and lost everything.
In my opinion this not the time for political one upmanship and point scoring.

Oh, I did not read any of that in the article. It's more about how they got to this sad stage, such as poor governance and voter decisions.
 
Oh, I did not read any of that in the article. It's more about how they got to this sad stage, such as poor governance and voter decisions.
Easy to make judgements with hindsight, but this disaster seemed to result from a coincidence of adverse factors that could not be prevented, such as low rainfall and incredible gale force winds that was very difficult to counter.
 
Easy to make judgements with hindsight, but this disaster seemed to result from a coincidence of adverse factors that could not be prevented, such as low rainfall and incredible gale force winds that was very difficult to counter.

Read the article, the issues could have been drastically minimised starting from decisions in 1988.

Proof can be seen in SA and Victoria, where past devasting fires caused all to take action to help prevent and minimise future fires and their devasting effects. Things like new building codes, restricting where buildings and development can take place, adding regulations such as water storage on properties and sprinkler systems, enforcement of plant material around properties, etc.
 
Read the article, the issues could have been drastically minimised starting from decisions in 1988.

Proof can be seen in SA and Victoria, where past devasting fires caused all to take action to help prevent and minimise future fires and their devasting effects. Things like new building codes, restricting where buildings and development can take place, adding regulations such as water storage on properties and sprinkler systems, enforcement of plant material around properties, etc.

John all of these points could indeed assist with reducing fuel, improving on site fire suppression measures, dramatically improve building safety in the event of a fire. But realistically most of these measures would not have been supported by developers, builders, home owners or even the local authorities. They would have been seen as "overkill" "nanny state intervention" "anti free market" .

But there is a core issue with this fire and the extreme nature of other natural disasters around the world.

The world is warming rapidly due to climate change. The massive extra heat in the atmosphere is accelerating the drying out of vegetation. The extra heat energy is increasing the strength of thunderstorms, normal storms, winds, hurricanes. In the case of wildfire the result is the very marked increase in fire intensity to the point that traditional fire fighting measures are no longer capable of slowing these outbreaks. Firefighters around the world have recognized this change in fire behaviour caused by long term increases in temperatures.

Since the 1990's the CSIRO has made it clear that global warming is real, it's happening and that will be consequences with regard to cropping, fires and the actual liveability of many areas. Discussions about bringing in new building regulations, land clearing and restrictions on land development can be found across all their advice. And what has happened as a result ?

Ask The National Party and Peter Dutton. Check out ASF forums for an on the ground view of community thinking.

Anyway this is only the start of what global warming is bringing. Relentlessly rising sea levels and the havoc that will create is the next slow motion catastrophe.

 
This link offers a free download of the Climate Research up to 2011 at the CSIRO.
What has happened from 2011 to 2023 ? The global temperature graph tells it all.

This comparison graph shows global temperature averages over time calculated by NASA and other organizations, including Europe’s Copernicus Climate Change Center, the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, Berkeley Earth, the UK’s Met Office and Duo Chan. The averages are set against a common baseline of 1981-2000.
NASA/Gavin Schmidt

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John all of these points could indeed assist with reducing fuel, improving on site fire suppression measures, dramatically improve building safety in the event of a fire. But realistically most of these measures would not have been supported by developers, builders, home owners or even the local authorities. They would have been seen as "overkill" "nanny state intervention" "anti free market" .

But there is a core issue with this fire and the extreme nature of other natural disasters around the world.

The world is warming rapidly due to climate change. The massive extra heat in the atmosphere is accelerating the drying out of vegetation. The extra heat energy is increasing the strength of thunderstorms, normal storms, winds, hurricanes. In the case of wildfire the result is the very marked increase in fire intensity to the point that traditional fire fighting measures are no longer capable of slowing these outbreaks. Firefighters around the world have recognized this change in fire behaviour caused by long term increases in temperatures.

Since the 1990's the CSIRO has made it clear that global warming is real, it's happening and that will be consequences with regard to cropping, fires and the actual liveability of many areas. Discussions about bringing in new building regulations, land clearing and restrictions on land development can be found across all their advice. And what has happened as a result ?

Ask The National Party and Peter Dutton. Check out ASF forums for an on the ground view of community thinking.

Anyway this is only the start of what global warming is bringing. Relentlessly rising sea levels and the havoc that will create is the next slow motion catastrophe.


Two things there: my comment was "I did not read any of that in the article. It's more about how they got to this sad stage, such as poor governance and voter decisions."

And secondly, yes 'climate change' is happening but it has been going on since the planet was created.

There is an interesting Attenborough documentary on Tasmania, in it he shows us the worlds tallest Eucalypts. The thing is that the tree only regenerates when there is a bushfire, and the last time there was a bushfire in that rain forest was 500 years ago, so those trees are 500 years old and none have grown. It shows that those trees are the same as on the mainland and reguivinate when there is fire.
 
There were two graps from The Economist article that bear a closer look.

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In the Blaze of misery graph the current active fires have only been going 6 days. How long had the previous fires been burning ? Minimum 13 rough average around mid 20's. I don't think anyone believes the current fires will stop within the next week.

This seems to be the first time such a major fire has occurred in January ie Winter. This reflects the record dry year reducing the fuel to tinder dryness. It also reflects the strength of the winds that fanned these fires. There is no longer a fire season as such.
 
Just trying to be balanced.
John, that's not balance.
That's BS

"The climate is always changing " Yes. Indeed it has and our understanding of science, geography, astronomy ect allows use to understand the various reasons for the historical changes in the Earths climate. And incidentally these changes generally happened over long periods of time (unless there was a cataclsymic volcanic eruption or asteroid strike )

That same science now tells that the huge human created increase in greenhouse gases over the past 50 years is creating the current surge in temperatures.

Unless of course your the imminent President of the United States in which case its all a hoax isn't it ? :rolleyes:
 
John, that's not balance.
That's BS

"The climate is always changing " Yes. Indeed it has and our understanding of science, geography, astronomy ect allows use to understand the various reasons for the historical changes in the Earths climate. And incidentally these changes generally happened over long periods of time (unless there was a cataclsymic volcanic eruption or asteroid strike )

That same science now tells that the huge human created increase in greenhouse gases over the past 50 years is creating the current surge in temperatures.

Unless of course your the imminent President of the United States in which case its all a hoax isn't it ? :rolleyes:

As my example showed, the climate is always changing.

There is an interesting Attenborough documentary on Tasmania, in it he shows us the worlds tallest Eucalypts. The thing is that the tree only regenerates when there is a bushfire, and the last time there was a bushfire in that rain forest was 500 years ago, so those trees are 500 years old and none have grown. It shows that those trees are the same as on the mainland and rejuvenate when there is fire.

How did a tree that needs a bushfire for its seeds to germinate get to a rain forest where there are no bushfires?

The answer is that the location was once drier and hotter that it is now.

Have you been to the Naracoorte Caves? The flora & fauna fossil indicate an environment that was wetter & cooler and changed before humans (I presume that it changed before humans started controlled bushfires).



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"The climate is always changing " Yes. Indeed it has and our understanding of science, geography, astronomy ect allows use to understand the various reasons for the historical changes in the Earths climate. And incidentally these changes generally happened over long periods of time (unless there was a cataclsymic volcanic eruption or asteroid strike )

That same science now tells that the huge human created increase in greenhouse gases over the past 50 years is creating the current surge in temperatures.
There's essentially two separate issues there albeit with the same outcome.
 
There's essentially two separate issues there albeit with the same outcome.
Indeed there are.

The first conversation is about long term climate changes which are largely driven by natural forces or extreme externalities. And yes the climate is always changing in some way as a result of these factors - usually slowly over many hundreds/thousands of years

The second conversation is about the extreme climate change that has happened in the past 50 years that has been driven almost entirely by human produced greenhouse gases and now threatens to make large parts of the earth too hot for current ecosystems.

Referencing the first discussion and then ignoring the reality of human influence on climate in the present situation is at the core of our current problems.
 
The NASA website goes into excellent detail on Climate Change it's causes effects and how carefully global temperatures are measured.

Always worth a look to understand why we are frying.

Given the views of the next President that all of this is a hoax I wouldn't count on the information still being available next week. On the scale of decision making simply declaring all this data a Chinese hoax is quite within Donald Trumps remit and the willingness of his climate denier satraps to follow his wishes


This is How Scientists Measure Global Temperature


The global temperature record of the past century shows that Earth is warming at an unprecedented rate. 2024 was the hottest year on record, and the past 10 years have been the warmest in recorded history. Each of the last four decades has been warmer than any decade that preceded it, dating back to 1850.

This global warming has been caused by human activities, primarily the emission of heat-trapping greenhouse gases, according to the 2023 synthesis report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. And we’re seeing the impacts in heat waves, wildfires, intense rainfall, and coastal flooding.

Global Data Collection
Global Temperature is Measured Using Anomalies
Are We Just Averaging the Anomalies?
Correcting for 'Urban Heat Islands'
Temperature Records Agree
El Niño and La Niña Don't Impact the Long-Term Trend
1.5 °C Milestone
1-2 Degrees of Global Warming Matters
How NASA's Temperature Record Began
Refining the Method
We're Seeing it At the Local Levels
References and Sources

 
Easy to make judgements with hindsight, but this disaster seemed to result from a coincidence of adverse factors that could not be prevented, such as low rainfall and incredible gale force winds that was very difficult to counter.
Didn't want to comment, but in the name of balance.
Wasn't the lack of water an issue?
I guess everyone is angry, but hey blame Trump, that works with a small minority and will just strenghen the plebs anger against the elites.
It will end badly, the media is better off just letting politics run their course, constantly bagging Trump will end badly for them, just let it go IMO.

 
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