So what's your angle then? How do you make your money from the investors?
LM Investment Management - Lack of confidence
- Thread starter dinga
- Start date
So what's your angle then? How do you make your money from the investors?
Re: Farangs in Faradise
I'm afraid it's not like that Asick. I don't think many of our investors actually approached their IFAs with a wad of cash, looking for somehwere to stash it. They are usually stalked by the IFAs, sometimes even over a number of years. The IFAs usually try to build up a relationship and trust through various networks etc. The current favourite seems to be LinkedIn. They're in it for the long game.
The IFAs are salesmen, essentially selling themselves as 'good guys' who are only here to help expats. They want to assist with our finances and they would never knowingly sell us something a bit dodgy???? But they still have those small print disclaimers at the bottom of the page...
Any sneaking suspicions are smoothed away with claims of "LM is just like a bank. The funds are all based on Aussie property mortgages, safe as houses. The Aussie financial services are heavily regulated by ASIC."
As you are investing in Australia, the land of "Fair goes mate!", the lack of Thai regulation doesn't really come into consideration until times like this.
I'm afraid it's not like that Asick. I don't think many of our investors actually approached their IFAs with a wad of cash, looking for somehwere to stash it. They are usually stalked by the IFAs, sometimes even over a number of years. The IFAs usually try to build up a relationship and trust through various networks etc. The current favourite seems to be LinkedIn. They're in it for the long game.
The IFAs are salesmen, essentially selling themselves as 'good guys' who are only here to help expats. They want to assist with our finances and they would never knowingly sell us something a bit dodgy???? But they still have those small print disclaimers at the bottom of the page...
Any sneaking suspicions are smoothed away with claims of "LM is just like a bank. The funds are all based on Aussie property mortgages, safe as houses. The Aussie financial services are heavily regulated by ASIC."
As you are investing in Australia, the land of "Fair goes mate!", the lack of Thai regulation doesn't really come into consideration until times like this.
Re: Farangs in Faradise
It's pretty simple, just don't use them. None of them. ASICK is right, they aren't independent.
It's pretty simple, just don't use them. None of them. ASICK is right, they aren't independent.
Re: Farangs in Faradise
I don't recall saying that, but I would avoid like the plague, investment advisors who:
1. offer to do work for nothing [yes, I'm a sceptic]
2. would benefit from a trailing commission on your investment/s.
3. otherwise gain a benefit from your investment/s other than a mere fee for service
I don't recall saying that, but I would avoid like the plague, investment advisors who:
1. offer to do work for nothing [yes, I'm a sceptic]
2. would benefit from a trailing commission on your investment/s.
3. otherwise gain a benefit from your investment/s other than a mere fee for service
Re: Farangs in Faradise
What do you think if they have a holding in the same thing they are recommending? This was one of the main things that convinced me, since you know, "I treat your money like mine". I really do need to get away from this forum though, so depressing.
What do you think if they have a holding in the same thing they are recommending? This was one of the main things that convinced me, since you know, "I treat your money like mine". I really do need to get away from this forum though, so depressing.
Re: Farangs in Faradise
If the Flintstones were created after your advisor invested in LM (which is obviously not the case), then I'd say that's where the creators got the idea for "Bam Bam" - could never be just "Bam".
If the advisor holds units, that might be used as comfort punters walking thru the deal - but disclosing investments does no more than show your advisor's choices, it doesn't speak to the quality of those investments.
It seems to me that it was known to local pundits that "Maddison" wasn't worth very much, but perhaps no one simply put the MPF's loan value against with market guesstimate of the property. Remember, LM valued the property "as complete" - I wonder where all the money went? mostly in fees I'd guess.
Some issues:
1. debt
2. how the asset was valued
3. cash flow
4. term
5. % management fee
6. other funds under management
I think to invest in a MIF/MIS, one has to look beyond the PDS to at least a couple of years of accounts and do a bit of research via Mr. Google. Phoning a local agent/s is a necessity if the asset/s is/are known. Because these funds use the accruals accounting method, profit is not necessarily an actual profit, it may be no more than an accounting profit (and that could be very risky indeed - as it has been in the PFMF, and here in the MPF).
There issues are not of any use now, but just in case you're tempted to try another fund ...
Here's some more gratuitous advice, "fear the worst, but hope for the best". If you think you'll get nothing, then anything in excess of nothing is a bonus.
It works for me, I hope it works for you.
Take a rest, you've been hard at it - it'll all be here if and when you come back, and of course, you'll get your updates from KM anyway.
If the Flintstones were created after your advisor invested in LM (which is obviously not the case), then I'd say that's where the creators got the idea for "Bam Bam" - could never be just "Bam".
If the advisor holds units, that might be used as comfort punters walking thru the deal - but disclosing investments does no more than show your advisor's choices, it doesn't speak to the quality of those investments.
It seems to me that it was known to local pundits that "Maddison" wasn't worth very much, but perhaps no one simply put the MPF's loan value against with market guesstimate of the property. Remember, LM valued the property "as complete" - I wonder where all the money went? mostly in fees I'd guess.
Some issues:
1. debt
2. how the asset was valued
3. cash flow
4. term
5. % management fee
6. other funds under management
I think to invest in a MIF/MIS, one has to look beyond the PDS to at least a couple of years of accounts and do a bit of research via Mr. Google. Phoning a local agent/s is a necessity if the asset/s is/are known. Because these funds use the accruals accounting method, profit is not necessarily an actual profit, it may be no more than an accounting profit (and that could be very risky indeed - as it has been in the PFMF, and here in the MPF).
There issues are not of any use now, but just in case you're tempted to try another fund ...
Here's some more gratuitous advice, "fear the worst, but hope for the best". If you think you'll get nothing, then anything in excess of nothing is a bonus.
It works for me, I hope it works for you.
Take a rest, you've been hard at it - it'll all be here if and when you come back, and of course, you'll get your updates from KM anyway.
ASIC have known for years that a number of mortgage schemes are lending based on gross realisable value.
So if I have a block of land that can be subdivided into 10 lots each worth 100,000 ie GRV is $1 million.
Now clowns will lend me depending on there approved loan of upto 80% upfront $800,000.
They choose to ignore a small issue that I need build roads, water sewerage etc
Now when you apply the same approach to a high rise development or a large estate like Maddison it gets worse as what the "rules" of the fund allow is a massive loan based on end value which is not tied back to what the site is worth right now if they are forced to sell it.
I bet the $280 million ??? sunk into Maddison will have gone into the LM machine with little actually spent on the ground. Each raw lot already owes $140,000 before you start putting development costs on top of this.
Now the question for ASIC is given that already they had seen massive losses from other schemes based on this dodgy lending approach why was the door left open for more cowboys to exploit investors in this matter.
The compliance committee as LM will all put their hands on their hearts and say that the lending was within scheme rules. I thought their duty of care would have overridden this excuse but to date ASIC has sat on their collective hands.
So if I have a block of land that can be subdivided into 10 lots each worth 100,000 ie GRV is $1 million.
Now clowns will lend me depending on there approved loan of upto 80% upfront $800,000.
They choose to ignore a small issue that I need build roads, water sewerage etc
Now when you apply the same approach to a high rise development or a large estate like Maddison it gets worse as what the "rules" of the fund allow is a massive loan based on end value which is not tied back to what the site is worth right now if they are forced to sell it.
I bet the $280 million ??? sunk into Maddison will have gone into the LM machine with little actually spent on the ground. Each raw lot already owes $140,000 before you start putting development costs on top of this.
Now the question for ASIC is given that already they had seen massive losses from other schemes based on this dodgy lending approach why was the door left open for more cowboys to exploit investors in this matter.
The compliance committee as LM will all put their hands on their hearts and say that the lending was within scheme rules. I thought their duty of care would have overridden this excuse but to date ASIC has sat on their collective hands.
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Re: Farangs in Faradise
I think you have completely missed the point of my post....... I am NOT here making recommendations, but after reading the many many posts of investors caught up with this LM, and especially the member who had a substantial percentage of his pension allocated to LM MPF, I suggested going to the trustee of their pension provider, as it appears that the trustee has not followed their duty of care in response to risk controls & the benefits of the member.
No advice given....... just a suggestion. Or would you prefer that I don't use the 21 years experience of mine (9 as a ASIC licensed adviser in Australia & 5 in the offshore industry.......where I have seen some stuff that would make anyone with a financial background squirm in horror.
I think you have completely missed the point of my post....... I am NOT here making recommendations, but after reading the many many posts of investors caught up with this LM, and especially the member who had a substantial percentage of his pension allocated to LM MPF, I suggested going to the trustee of their pension provider, as it appears that the trustee has not followed their duty of care in response to risk controls & the benefits of the member.
No advice given....... just a suggestion. Or would you prefer that I don't use the 21 years experience of mine (9 as a ASIC licensed adviser in Australia & 5 in the offshore industry.......where I have seen some stuff that would make anyone with a financial background squirm in horror.
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The firm that I am employed with charges clients a 'fee for service' which is fully disclosed upfront, as per Portfolio Management firms in Australia, UK, Singapore. NO commission (either upfront or trail) is received & the very rare event that an investment does pay a commission, 100% is rebated back to the client.
Anyway, I am not here to spruik business but to maybe provide some suggestions on how effected LM investors (especially investments in pensions) may be able to take action instead of lengthy & expensive class actions in Australia.
Just a Bit of Harmless Fishing?
Maybe I missed something, but you lead off your initial posting with this, "Before I go any further, I will fully disclose that I am employed as a Portfolio Manager for a licensed Financial Firm based in Bangkok....."
and you said this, "Also, the company I work for is legally registered in Thailand and I hold a valid Thai work permit."
you disclosed your interests, why did you do that? If you take the time to look at the ASIC notice below the box you compiled your posting, take a look at NOTE 4. "(4) It is not permitted for any member to post in the role of a licensed financial advisor or to post as the representative of a financial advisor." While NOTE 4 may not apply to you because you don't hold an AFSL and you're not a representative of an AFSL holder, the intention of NOTE 4 is quite clear, that advisors or representatives should not post on this forum.
And you advise LM investors, "The reason for me looking through this forum is that I have inherited clients from other IFA firms in Thailand that have unfortunately had substantial allocations of their portfolios to LM and I am trying to assist them with on-going information on the status of LM." and, "I did NOT recommend LM but I do now have clients with LM investments that I am trying to assist."
You say you've read the forum ("after reading the many posts"), so you'd be aware that a number of Thai-based investors read/post on this forum. I see your posting as a bit of a fishing expedition, and as far as I'm concerned, you picked up at least one - almost immediately from am262327, "I don't have any expletives aimed at you, Boston, but can you help ME???" (emphasis added)
good one .. !
Maybe I missed something, but you lead off your initial posting with this, "Before I go any further, I will fully disclose that I am employed as a Portfolio Manager for a licensed Financial Firm based in Bangkok....."
and you said this, "Also, the company I work for is legally registered in Thailand and I hold a valid Thai work permit."
you disclosed your interests, why did you do that? If you take the time to look at the ASIC notice below the box you compiled your posting, take a look at NOTE 4. "(4) It is not permitted for any member to post in the role of a licensed financial advisor or to post as the representative of a financial advisor." While NOTE 4 may not apply to you because you don't hold an AFSL and you're not a representative of an AFSL holder, the intention of NOTE 4 is quite clear, that advisors or representatives should not post on this forum.
And you advise LM investors, "The reason for me looking through this forum is that I have inherited clients from other IFA firms in Thailand that have unfortunately had substantial allocations of their portfolios to LM and I am trying to assist them with on-going information on the status of LM." and, "I did NOT recommend LM but I do now have clients with LM investments that I am trying to assist."
You say you've read the forum ("after reading the many posts"), so you'd be aware that a number of Thai-based investors read/post on this forum. I see your posting as a bit of a fishing expedition, and as far as I'm concerned, you picked up at least one - almost immediately from am262327, "I don't have any expletives aimed at you, Boston, but can you help ME???" (emphasis added)
good one .. !
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Re: Farangs in Faradise
100% agree with you on the above.
The term IFA I think is flawed because they can not be completely independent. They will always be tied to a range of Life Companies / platform providers and as such, can not be independent.
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Well you are entitled to your comments & opinions...... but I honestly did think that my comment for pension investors in LM to approach the trustee of their pension fund was valid and delivered for the benefit of others...
100% agree with you on the above.
The term IFA I think is flawed because they can not be completely independent. They will always be tied to a range of Life Companies / platform providers and as such, can not be independent.
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Well you are entitled to your comments & opinions...... but I honestly did think that my comment for pension investors in LM to approach the trustee of their pension fund was valid and delivered for the benefit of others...
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Re: Just a Bit of Harmless Fishing?
ASICK....... yes, I am very aware that there many Thailand based investors of LM read this forum, which is why I made the point of approaching the trustee of the pension fund, as you & many others have pointed out, that there is NO regulation here in Thailand and I have yet to see anything else presented that may benefit Thailand based investors caught up with LM apart from potentially joining class actions in Australia.
Would you have agreed with my original post if I had not disclosed my role..?
On a business sense, why would I want to 'spruik' to get clients that have their portfolios tied up in frozen funds..??
Anyway, I have obviously underestimated the complete negative attitude & distrust of people in the financial industry by others.......
ASICK....... yes, I am very aware that there many Thailand based investors of LM read this forum, which is why I made the point of approaching the trustee of the pension fund, as you & many others have pointed out, that there is NO regulation here in Thailand and I have yet to see anything else presented that may benefit Thailand based investors caught up with LM apart from potentially joining class actions in Australia.
Would you have agreed with my original post if I had not disclosed my role..?
On a business sense, why would I want to 'spruik' to get clients that have their portfolios tied up in frozen funds..??
Anyway, I have obviously underestimated the complete negative attitude & distrust of people in the financial industry by others.......
Re: Farangs in Faradise
I think it was a spruik and directed to those resident in Thai. I was not surprised to see am262327 respond so quickly, in fact, I expected something like that to happen (on or off forum).
I know many LM investors are vulnerable and willing to grasp as straws ... one only has to look at am262327's response to your posting. I spend a decent amount of my time in Bangkok and fully understand how extra difficult it is for foreigners - a loss of a substantial amount of one's savings for an ex-pat could be more than frightening, it's bad enough losing the money, but being so far from the locus of the loss increases the anxiety.
It's clear (at least to me) that Thai investors best opportunity is with KM and KM's best endeavours - There's no need for them to do anything more at this time - and there's no need (ever) to spend good money after bad.
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I think that ASIC purposefully draws a line that postings on these forums should not be made by AFSL holders and representatives for a good reason, because it doesn't want investors to be influenced by self-interest. I understand you're not a licence holder which is required to comply with the law, but you are an employee or agent of a licence holder in a foreign jurisdiction, and I think that the tenor of the law includes folk such as yourself.
If I accept that it is the case that you had no intention to tout, the result was that you had a member (based in Thai) seeking your help, help for which you say you charge on a "for fee" basis.
Setting intention aside, the outcome speaks for itself.
I think it was a spruik and directed to those resident in Thai. I was not surprised to see am262327 respond so quickly, in fact, I expected something like that to happen (on or off forum).
I know many LM investors are vulnerable and willing to grasp as straws ... one only has to look at am262327's response to your posting. I spend a decent amount of my time in Bangkok and fully understand how extra difficult it is for foreigners - a loss of a substantial amount of one's savings for an ex-pat could be more than frightening, it's bad enough losing the money, but being so far from the locus of the loss increases the anxiety.
It's clear (at least to me) that Thai investors best opportunity is with KM and KM's best endeavours - There's no need for them to do anything more at this time - and there's no need (ever) to spend good money after bad.
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I think that ASIC purposefully draws a line that postings on these forums should not be made by AFSL holders and representatives for a good reason, because it doesn't want investors to be influenced by self-interest. I understand you're not a licence holder which is required to comply with the law, but you are an employee or agent of a licence holder in a foreign jurisdiction, and I think that the tenor of the law includes folk such as yourself.
If I accept that it is the case that you had no intention to tout, the result was that you had a member (based in Thai) seeking your help, help for which you say you charge on a "for fee" basis.
Setting intention aside, the outcome speaks for itself.
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Re: Farangs in Faradise
OK......point taken. Obviously nothing i write, you will believe anyway.
KM - yes I think that is the best option for individual investors that has been presented at the moment. BUT, I still stand by my suggestion that anyone invested via their pension fund (I am talking predominately through a UK SIPP, or a QROPS) get in contact with the trustee of the pension fund........ this not through an IFA but direct to the trustees. There is NO cost to register a complaint against the trustees and if it needs to be taken further i.e. Ombudsman in financial regions such as Isle of Man, Guernsey, Malta, Gibraltar where a lot of these pension trustees are based.
Also, if KM is the course of action that needs to be taken, it is the Trustees that need to set the wheels in motion with KM as they are the legal owners of the investment (the members are technically the beneficiaries).
So rubbish me all you want, all I have tried to do is provide a possible alternative approach for certain investors.
OK......point taken. Obviously nothing i write, you will believe anyway.
KM - yes I think that is the best option for individual investors that has been presented at the moment. BUT, I still stand by my suggestion that anyone invested via their pension fund (I am talking predominately through a UK SIPP, or a QROPS) get in contact with the trustee of the pension fund........ this not through an IFA but direct to the trustees. There is NO cost to register a complaint against the trustees and if it needs to be taken further i.e. Ombudsman in financial regions such as Isle of Man, Guernsey, Malta, Gibraltar where a lot of these pension trustees are based.
Also, if KM is the course of action that needs to be taken, it is the Trustees that need to set the wheels in motion with KM as they are the legal owners of the investment (the members are technically the beneficiaries).
So rubbish me all you want, all I have tried to do is provide a possible alternative approach for certain investors.
Can't seem to stay away
I got an update (just to me via email after hounding them with questions I knew they couldn't answer) from KM:
"The capital raising being mooted at the moment regards the Maddison loan only. There are 18 other loans in the Fund which we are working on securing the Fund's position."
That prompted me to check this forum, and I see that my reply to a post from Boston may have distracted from his contribution. I do think what he said was fairly clear and helpful to that other poster. However, my request for help was said with tongue firmly planted in cheek: I'm an idiot investor for having put money into LM when, although I'm a bigger idiot for not having done more research before having done so. Had I put it into a bank, which me and my conservatively-minded wife are want to do given the fact that we work very, very hard for our earnings, I would still have it, plus 0.5% interest or somesuch. So, you know, I'm not really going to listen to anyone pitching anything.
And, for what it's worth, no one has contacted me privately that isn't a fellow LM investor. But it seems to me that a forum with that sort of policy, what is is doing with a private messaging feature? Anyway...
I am an international school teacher who does things like builds communities. I helped raise money for various charities, and volunteer to do a bunch of other crap like proms and special events (this on top of the usual teaching duties, and no, not for any extra money or any form of compensation), and I'm finding myself calling such work "crap" because I'm wondering why I bothered, because six years of me and my wife's savings are in LM. I am on my current school's staff association so I get to hear my fair share of horror stories about things happening to expats that, if it happened in their home countries, there would be protections in place. Not available to us, which, yes ASICK, means we're more vulnerable. And because I'm so busy, I was hoping I could rely on a financial advisor to do the due diligence stuff.
So, as an expat, if I go to a company in Thailand or somewhere else, and if the worse happened and the funds got frozen and administrators are appointed, and now you're telling me that there is no legal recourse for me whatsoever.... I gotta ask what the hell are you doing using them? (I'm talking to two-year-ago-self...)
Hopefully this bit of info is a bit of context for any other individuals wondering about the kinds of people who are hurting from all this.
I got an update (just to me via email after hounding them with questions I knew they couldn't answer) from KM:
"The capital raising being mooted at the moment regards the Maddison loan only. There are 18 other loans in the Fund which we are working on securing the Fund's position."
That prompted me to check this forum, and I see that my reply to a post from Boston may have distracted from his contribution. I do think what he said was fairly clear and helpful to that other poster. However, my request for help was said with tongue firmly planted in cheek: I'm an idiot investor for having put money into LM when, although I'm a bigger idiot for not having done more research before having done so. Had I put it into a bank, which me and my conservatively-minded wife are want to do given the fact that we work very, very hard for our earnings, I would still have it, plus 0.5% interest or somesuch. So, you know, I'm not really going to listen to anyone pitching anything.
And, for what it's worth, no one has contacted me privately that isn't a fellow LM investor. But it seems to me that a forum with that sort of policy, what is is doing with a private messaging feature? Anyway...
I am an international school teacher who does things like builds communities. I helped raise money for various charities, and volunteer to do a bunch of other crap like proms and special events (this on top of the usual teaching duties, and no, not for any extra money or any form of compensation), and I'm finding myself calling such work "crap" because I'm wondering why I bothered, because six years of me and my wife's savings are in LM. I am on my current school's staff association so I get to hear my fair share of horror stories about things happening to expats that, if it happened in their home countries, there would be protections in place. Not available to us, which, yes ASICK, means we're more vulnerable. And because I'm so busy, I was hoping I could rely on a financial advisor to do the due diligence stuff.
So, as an expat, if I go to a company in Thailand or somewhere else, and if the worse happened and the funds got frozen and administrators are appointed, and now you're telling me that there is no legal recourse for me whatsoever.... I gotta ask what the hell are you doing using them? (I'm talking to two-year-ago-self...)
Hopefully this bit of info is a bit of context for any other individuals wondering about the kinds of people who are hurting from all this.
Re: Farangs in Faradise
It's not a personal issue, it's Rule 4 of the ASIC Notice, "(4) It is not permitted for any member to post in the role of a licensed financial advisor or to post as the representative of a financial advisor."
It was you who gave the disclosure - if you'd said nothing about your business interests in the investment sector then none of the previous discussion would have taken place.
If investors do contact you, I hope you'll take them on pro bono - reports about such good deeds might filter back to this forum and bring hope to those who (without doubt) stand to lose a substantial part of their respective investments with LM.
Of course, if you seek to charge, such efforts may be alternatively disclosed herein.
It's not a personal issue, it's Rule 4 of the ASIC Notice, "(4) It is not permitted for any member to post in the role of a licensed financial advisor or to post as the representative of a financial advisor."
It was you who gave the disclosure - if you'd said nothing about your business interests in the investment sector then none of the previous discussion would have taken place.
If investors do contact you, I hope you'll take them on pro bono - reports about such good deeds might filter back to this forum and bring hope to those who (without doubt) stand to lose a substantial part of their respective investments with LM.
Of course, if you seek to charge, such efforts may be alternatively disclosed herein.
Re: Can't seem to stay away
If a member receives a private email/s, that member is free to accept or reject it/them- but if the member is offended by such mails, then a complaint may be made to the moderator. If the moderator deems fit, the sender might be blocked from the forum, or in lesser cases, admonished.
I'm sorry for the mess you're in, but please keep in mind that many of us have "been there, done that" (actually, many of us are still going thru it).
I think it's best for you to wait to see what KM discloses about future actions - you might be pleasantly surprised, or you might be disappointed, but you really won't know which way to go until you know what KM is doing.
If a member receives a private email/s, that member is free to accept or reject it/them- but if the member is offended by such mails, then a complaint may be made to the moderator. If the moderator deems fit, the sender might be blocked from the forum, or in lesser cases, admonished.
I'm sorry for the mess you're in, but please keep in mind that many of us have "been there, done that" (actually, many of us are still going thru it).
I think it's best for you to wait to see what KM discloses about future actions - you might be pleasantly surprised, or you might be disappointed, but you really won't know which way to go until you know what KM is doing.
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Grief
The five stages, denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance are a part of the framework that makes up our learning to live with the cash we lost.
I am a doctor that has been taken for a ride. I'm not angry or embarassed or ashamed any more,which I was initially.
When you get to acceptance, it gets better. Most of our investment has been lost. Let the court decide who should be the RE for the LMIF. We should get something.
For those in the Performance Fund, leave it with KM or contact the trustees maybe.
It's not your fault you trusted an IFA and try not to let it negatively affect your life too much. It's difficult but the sun will still rise in the morning. As soon as you accept what it is, you will be able to more on to brighter things.
Sht happens!
The five stages, denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance are a part of the framework that makes up our learning to live with the cash we lost.
I am a doctor that has been taken for a ride. I'm not angry or embarassed or ashamed any more,
which I was initially.When you get to acceptance, it gets better. Most of our investment has been lost. Let the court decide who should be the RE for the LMIF. We should get something.
For those in the Performance Fund, leave it with KM or contact the trustees maybe.
It's not your fault you trusted an IFA and try not to let it negatively affect your life too much. It's difficult but the sun will still rise in the morning. As soon as you accept what it is, you will be able to more on to brighter things.
Sht happens!
Good Grief - what a winner for LM and the IFAs
Don't know about you doc, but I am still very angry and will not just accept it.
Letting the courts decide which RE can milk the remainder of the funds is not the way. There is a very real chance that we will be left with nothing at all. Haven't you followed the thread and ASICK's experiences with Trilogy and the rest of them? Even leaving the MPF with KM is also a very dubious option.
You're damn right it's not our fault that we trusted IFAs - it's all their fault for deceiving so many of us for so long. It wasn't all just an accident. Someone must pay for this.
You sound like you are taking your own happy pills. I hope I never have to go under your knife anytime, I might not get up again because some **** happened. Maybe one of us should see a different doctor?
Don't know about you doc, but I am still very angry and will not just accept it.
Letting the courts decide which RE can milk the remainder of the funds is not the way. There is a very real chance that we will be left with nothing at all. Haven't you followed the thread and ASICK's experiences with Trilogy and the rest of them? Even leaving the MPF with KM is also a very dubious option.
You're damn right it's not our fault that we trusted IFAs - it's all their fault for deceiving so many of us for so long. It wasn't all just an accident. Someone must pay for this.
You sound like you are taking your own happy pills. I hope I never have to go under your knife anytime, I might not get up again because some **** happened. Maybe one of us should see a different doctor?
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