Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

LM Investment Management - Lack of confidence

Wow could things get any worse...... one good bit of news in today's Gold Caost Bulletin is confirmation that capital repayments will start this week and according to the article LM has been able to sell down assests at a faster rate as the market had improved. Lets hope for those trusting investors, at a better price as well. I am not sure if the article is online I saw it in the printed version of the paper.

It's been a while since we've had any good news in this whole debacle, however small, but still welcome. I've had a look at the Bulletin website but couldn't find any reference to the article you mentioned. Sure it wasn't another LM spruik inserted by LM as an advert? I'm just getting so cynical about it all these days.

So the market is alleged to have improved - at least that provides some hope to us investors. I am still highly sceptical about how much the market values had collapsed anyway. My IFA told me that the funds were a safe investment, all secured by Aussie mortgages, so that must be true! Sure, and GFC apart, real values are never what the experts assert, but what can be actually realised from a sale. But if there are no buyers for a period, so no sales, that cannot mean the value is zero! How much could LM Investment have been manipulating the fund under management values for their own ends? Is it possible that we have seen high fund values maintained for deducting management fees; which are then rapidly reduced for disposal of assets to a bunch of their Gold Coast property mates; and which recover when the real property purchasers return to the market? I was just wondering, but I think there must be some smart analysts out there who could ask some very probing questions of all LM's advisors, consultants, agents, accountants and auditors.

I was always very suspicious about the "hold 'em or fold 'em" mechanism proposed by LM. There never seemed to be any indication of which assets would be sold and which retained, or how those decisions would be made. Quickly dispose of the poorer assests (akin to a fire sale, promised as would never happen) to clear out the selling investors, then keep the better assets for longer term and those management fees again. I'm glad it never got to that.

Lets's see what comes out of LM next.
 
Re: On Being Out of Date

Very odd indeed, when a bunker mentality starts to set in. Look at Equititrust and McIvor and you start to see a pattern emerge. Given the failure of mortgage funds on the Gold Coast and the fact that LM's funds have been frozen did they expect not to be scrutinised by the media ?? The more scrutiny the better as far as I am concerned...

Agreed.
 
Re: LM Investment Management - No Trust

Great episode.
If half of Australia watched it I'd be happy.

As an overseas investor, I'd be happy if half of the world watched it.
Having fleeced too many home market retirees, LM turned its' attentions to the international market, initially regional expats but more lately to European and even the Islamic markets. I hope that the rest of the world does more research than I did and first has a good look around the web for LM Investment Management before endangering their life savings.

The 4 corners programme and a short ABC News item has been picked up by many Aus newspapers. If you google 'LM Investment Investigation' today there are pages and pages of local newspapers running the story. SMH and the like bring much needed (bad) publicity to these dodgy Gold Coast managers and in particular some the dealings of LM Investments and their broken funds. It may be too late for us current investors, but may save some others out there who are about to be conned. Eventually it may even have ASIC sort out their mechanisms which allow all this to happen again and again.


Just how do they get away with it? "Aw yeah, no but, well mate those funds fell over but our other ones are real good."
The world needs to know that the Gold Coast has more sharks on dry land than it does in the bloody sea!
 
Re: LM Investment Management - No Trust

As an overseas investor, I'd be happy if half of the world watched it.
Having fleeced too many home market retirees, LM turned its' attentions to the international market, initially regional expats but more lately to European and even the Islamic markets. I hope that the rest of the world does more research than I did and first has a good look around the web for LM Investment Management before endangering their life savings.

The 4 corners programme and a short ABC News item has been picked up by many Aus newspapers. If you google 'LM Investment Investigation' today there are pages and pages of local newspapers running the story. SMH and the like bring much needed (bad) publicity to these dodgy Gold Coast managers and in particular some the dealings of LM Investments and their broken funds. It may be too late for us current investors, but may save some others out there who are about to be conned. Eventually it may even have ASIC sort out their mechanisms which allow all this to happen again and again.


Just how do they get away with it? "Aw yeah, no but, well mate those funds fell over but our other ones are real good."
The world needs to know that the Gold Coast has more sharks on dry land than it does in the bloody sea!

I have it on reasonable authority that the very trigger for the "4 Corners" episode was the fact that the link to Peter Drake's webpage was posted on this very thread - otherwise no one would have been the wiser about the video - one would have though he'd watch the video before posting it - I guess he didn't.

These forums have much more effect on the "powers that be" than many imagine.
 
It's been a while since we've had any good news in this whole debacle, however small, but still welcome. I've had a look at the Bulletin website but couldn't find any reference to the article you mentioned. Sure it wasn't another LM spruik inserted by LM as an advert? I'm just getting so cynical about it all these days.

So the market is alleged to have improved - at least that provides some hope to us investors. I am still highly sceptical about how much the market values had collapsed anyway. My IFA told me that the funds were a safe investment, all secured by Aussie mortgages, so that must be true! Sure, and GFC apart, real values are never what the experts assert, but what can be actually realised from a sale. But if there are no buyers for a period, so no sales, that cannot mean the value is zero! How much could LM Investment have been manipulating the fund under management values for their own ends? Is it possible that we have seen high fund values maintained for deducting management fees; which are then rapidly reduced for disposal of assets to a bunch of their Gold Coast property mates; and which recover when the real property purchasers return to the market? I was just wondering, but I think there must be some smart analysts out there who could ask some very probing questions of all LM's advisors, consultants, agents, accountants and auditors.

I was always very suspicious about the "hold 'em or fold 'em" mechanism proposed by LM. There never seemed to be any indication of which assets would be sold and which retained, or how those decisions would be made. Quickly dispose of the poorer assests (akin to a fire sale, promised as would never happen) to clear out the selling investors, then keep the better assets for longer term and those management fees again. I'm glad it never got to that.

Lets's see what comes out of LM next.

Hi Loiner. Yes the article was genuine, from memory it was the start of the Business Section and quite prominent. Unfortunately not all the paper is online.
 
Re: LM Investment Management - No Trust

I have it on reasonable authority that the very trigger for the "4 Corners" episode was the fact that the link to Peter Drake's webpage was posted on this very thread - otherwise no one would have been the wiser about the video - one would have though he'd watch the video before posting it - I guess he didn't.

These forums have much more effect on the "powers that be" than many imagine.

One would also think that LM would get presentations of the nature of that video checked by their lawyers and not just trust salespeople to get it right. Maybe Peter is a little too trusting of his staff.
 
Re: LM Investment Management - No Trust

The Equititrust Thread has been extremely effective in getting to the bottom of various issues. "King Con" being one of them. Equititrust tried to deny and hide its lending to him, however all was revealed on the thread much to the chagrin of McIvor and Equititrust...

ASIC, the banks, National Media and many others were tuned into the Equititrust Thread which proved effective in getting the truth out on a daily basis...

McIvor wrote about the Media etc in his idiotic Novella, "Strange Animals Come Down to Drink" but did not mention Aussie Stock Forums once... I guess that was to painful to bear...

Read the story in the Courier Mail its quite amusing :)

http://www.couriermail.com.au/busin...-words-escalates/story-e6freqmx-1226013111852

I have it on reasonable authority that the very trigger for the "4 Corners" episode was the fact that the link to Peter Drake's webpage was posted on this very thread - otherwise no one would have been the wiser about the video - one would have though he'd watch the video before posting it - I guess he didn't.

These forums have much more effect on the "powers that be" than many imagine.
 
Drake now has an issue with ASIC and rightly so... Given the 4 Corners episode and ASIC's toothless tiger approach to date, this fund will be properly scrutinised from now on by both the regulator and the media, which is about time... Give me a break, but how many funds from the dodgy Gold Coast have to go broke before something is done about it. The time to act is now and if LM is clean, make them prove it in a very public way, if not bear the consequences as did Equititrust, simple as that...
 
Dear all Trilogy just sent this out by Email


I note below that Roger Bacon is still referring to Trilogy as a significant Unit Holder - despite that fact that I have written to him about his earlier document -as we no its us investors that are the unit holders NOT Trilogy!!!!

I don't know if this is of help to overseas investors who can view the Four Corners program, maybe there is a link here?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Unitholders in the LM First Mortgage Income Fund (and its feeder funds) and the LM Managed Performance Fund may be interested in the latest episode of ABC’s Four Corners program ‘A Betrayal of Trust’, which aired on Monday 4 March 2013 on ABC1.
The 45 minute program focuses on the money lost by investors in managed investment schemes and debenture issues and the way in which these are managed and regulated.
In particular we draw your attention to the part of the program that focuses on the LM First Mortgage Income Fund and the current financial position of the LM Managed Performance Fund (beginning at 23.27 minutes and ending at 37.36 minutes).
Please note - Four Corners is an independent current affairs program broadcasted by the ABC, a statutory authority constituted and operating under the provisions of the Australian Broadcasting Corporation Act 1983.

View the program

View online abc.net.au/4corners

ABC iview


Watch replay Saturday 9 March 8.00pm ABC News 24


Key findings of the investigation:
• In marketing its funds to offshore investors and advisers, the Trustee and Manager of the LM Managed Performance Fund, LM Investment Management Limited (LM) promotes itself as a ‘conservative and highly-rated private bank’ that is ‘regulated twice’ - as a private bank and as a fund manager. Australian Securities and Investments Commission (ASIC) Chairman Greg Medcraft claims to have no prior knowledge of these assertions and indicates that ASIC will be having ‘a closer look’.

• Maddison Estate, a 118 hectare bushland site located at Pimpama on the Gold Coast (and the flagship asset of the LM Managed Performance Fund) was purchased for $89 million at the top of the market. Loans against the asset now total $250 million with a small first mortgage to Suncorp and a very large second mortgage loan of more than $240 million from the LM Managed Performance Fund, via companies controlled by LM CEO and Chairman Peter Drake.

• Notwithstanding this, the LM Managed Performance Fund is still raising capital from overseas investors. With Maddison Estate in its infancy and no land having been sold, Four Corners questions how distributions to investors in the LM Managed Performance Fund are being paid. LM confirmed to Four Corners that capital from new investors in LM Managed Performance Fund along with cash and income from other assets in the fund is being used to pay returns to existing investors.

The program also explores the collapse of Banksia Securities and Prime Trust.
Further information
Unitholders may be also interested in watching extended interviews with either ASIC Chairman Mr Greg Medcraft or former ASIC special investigator Niall Coburn, which are also available from the Four Corners website abc.net.au/4corners
As a significant unitholder in the LM First Mortgage Income Fund, we remain committed to gathering information that allows us to critically assess the management and performance of our Fund and the alternate management option. We will continue to update you in relation to our findings. Please email us at updates@trilogyfunds.com.au
with your name and Account ID to register your interest in receiving further updates. If you have any queries please feel free to contact Client Services on 1800 176 559 or for New Zealand, David Jansen on +64 21 675 244 or jansendw@gmail.com

Yours sincerley

Rodger Bacon
Executive Deputy Chairman
Trilogy Funds Management
 
A Warm & Fuzzy Feeling About LM

The only tinsy bit of teeny weeny info that Bacon left out was at the end of the LM segment when "4 Corners" says, "... if the Gold Coast economy booms then Maddison could be a winner - but it's not without risk".

Now, that's not all bad, is it? A media event that intended to be a real expose ending like that? I guess "4 Corners" might be protecting its "butt"?

I think Bacon might be making a mistake in directing investors to the video, it might leave investors with a warm and fuzzy feeling about LM.

Wouldn't that be ironic?
 
You can't change an animal's nature and investing in Gold Coast property funds is like giving swine access to pavlovas: it will just be real messy. I invested in the currency protectd fund as a low risk investment. LM is just what it is expected: BS artists fleecing investors with ill considered investments and high fees.

If you have sht4branes and invest in this company, you get what you deserve. I have no bitterness towards LM as they are what they are and the outcome is highly predictable. If any one had really researched the product and looked at the potential fee structures etc it would be most unlikely that most of us would have invested with them. But we don't get commissions for investing with them, we get fees.

However,my view towards the independent financial advisor who I was referred to by the Medical Assurance Society is another matter. I would have never heard of LM if my IFA had not advised me to invest in them.

How bad does an IFA need to be before you are likely to successfully litigate against them, has anyone else gone down this route and how did you go?
 
"Useful Idiots"

... LM is just what it is expected: BS artists fleecing investors with ill considered investments and high fees. If you have sht4branes and invest in this company, you get what you deserve. I have no bitterness towards LM as they are what they are and the outcome is highly predictable. ...

It's the "wolf in sheep's clothing" that I'd be more concerned about.

Pushing aside the pavlovas Sht4branes, I for one am pleased to see that you're not bitter. Investors are nothing more than "useful idiots" if they react to anger. We all got into these funds thru ignorance (and perhaps greed), but we should be mildful that there's worse out there if we make decisions based on anger and/or revenge.
 
Mapc, you raise an interesting point, who is advising him? Is he following his own advice? Yipes !! As I see it, he's not doing himself any favours. I don't know what happens to many of these managers, but they really do seem to be living in a world of their own.

I wanted to comment on the spruik but I pressed the wrong button - and the whole spruik was posted - Yipes !! (again)

I'll comment in another post.

Hi Asick According to to Ben Butler in today's SMH CBD it seems "Drake hired so called mayor maker - Graham Staerk as a lobbyist in November...to help with its stoush with Trilogy...". According to the article it seems Graham has been wining and dining journalists all over the country. Maybe something is yet to surface but it seems LM may have wasted their money, especially if Peter's new social platform was his idea.

Unfortunately for those without access to SMH hard copy I can't find the article online.
 
The "Social Platform"

Hi Asick According to to Ben Butler in today's SMH CBD it seems "Drake hired so called mayor maker - Graham Staerk as a lobbyist in November...to help with its stoush with Trilogy...". According to the article it seems Graham has been wining and dining journalists all over the country. Maybe something is yet to surface but it seems LM may have wasted their money, especially if Peter's new social platform was his idea.

Unfortunately for those without access to SMH hard copy I can't find the article online.

Ah ! Mapc, were you just too shy to publish it?

http://www.smh.com.au/business/supa-centre-sale-an-offtrack-win-20130311-2fwcm.html?skin=text-only

We should keep in mind that the SMH has an axe to grind, after all, Peter Drake has them down at the NSW Supreme Court in Sydney. [remember Michael West's recent one-eyed report about LM]

And that "social platform" (as you call it) ... whose ever idea it was, it wasn't a good one.

oh dear .. the things some folks do.

as to the comments about "pirates" - it depends on one's perspective.
 
Re: The "Social Platform"

Ah ! Mapc, were you just too shy to publish it?

http://www.smh.com.au/business/supa-centre-sale-an-offtrack-win-20130311-2fwcm.html?skin=text-only

We should keep in mind that the SMH has an axe to grind, after all, Peter Drake has them down at the NSW Supreme Court in Sydney. [remember Michael West's recent one-eyed report about LM]

And that "social platform" (as you call it) ... whose ever idea it was, it wasn't a good one.

oh dear .. the things some folks do.

as to the comments about "pirates" - it depends on one's perspective.

Hi Asick. Not too shy, just not so good at finding things, it would seem.

Pleased you looked for those who wish to read it.
 
Raiders

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_auxiliary_cruiser_Kormoran

"The conversion work included installation of camouflaged weapons,"

"The raider was fitted with six 15-centimetre (5.9 in) SK L/45 guns as primary armament: two each within the forecastle ("1" and "2") and quarterdeck ("5" and "6"), and one each fore and aft ("3" and "4" respectively) on the centreline.[13] These guns were World War I-vintage; gun "3" had been removed from the battlecruiser SMS Seydlitz in 1916.[13] The forecastle and quarterdeck guns were hidden behind counter-weighted false hull plates, while each centreline gun was concealed by fake cargo hatch walls.[13]

The secondary armament consisted of five 2-centimetre (0.79 in) anti-aircraft guns.[13] Two were located on the forecastle, two on the after funnel deck, and the fifth in the quarterdeck.[13] All five were hidden by the structure of the ship until they were raised clear on hydraulic platforms.[13] There were plans to fit four 3.7-centimetre (1.5 in) anti-aircraft guns, but only two ex-army anti-tank guns could be scrounged; these were installed on Kormoran's superstructure, hidden by sheet metal panels.[13][14] Kormoran was also equipped with six torpedo tubes: two dual launchers on the upper deck, and a single underwater tube on each side.[13] The underwater tubes were amidships, angled at 135 ° from the bow, and could only be fired if the raider was travelling at less than 3 knots (5.6 km/h; 3.5 mph).[13] Kormoran carried a payload of mines, with an LS-3 fast boat carried inside[clarification needed] No. 6 cargo hatch for minelaying.[5]

The raider carried two Arado Ar 196 floatplanes for reconnaissance.[5][15] Although Detmers wanted a catapult, such equipment would have spoiled any merchant ship disguise used by Kormoran; instead, the planes were stored inside No. 5 cargo hatch, and were launched and recovered from the water with the assistance of hoists.[5][16] Mechanical problems, difficulties in moving the aircraft from hatch to water and back, and a lack of opportunities meant that only seven flights were made during the ship's operational deployment.[15]"

And, so will come the raider "Trilogy", hidden in its "hull" will be:

http://moneymagik.com/
http://moneymagik.com/trilogy_more_on_ryan.php
http://moneymagik.com/analysis_REIT.php
http://moneymagik.com/more_on_Trilogy_PMMFF.php
http://moneymagik.com/info_letter_re_pacific_first_mortgage_fund.pdf
http://moneymagik.com/yardy_yardy_yah.php
http://moneymagik.com/litigation.php
http://moneymagik.com/

and if it gets thru members' "defences", then you'll all soon see just what the raider "Trilogy" is really capable of.
 
For LMFMIF investors- re "Capital Distribution"

I am advised by LM and confirmed by Trilogy that approx $1.7m was paid by LM to Trilogy on last Friday for Unit Holders in the LMWFMIF.

I am further advised that a net distribution will be made to Unit holders by Trilogy ASAP.

As I have said before don't expect to much, maybe only around 1c/unit. It would be helpful if we all had the WFMIF Audited Statement so we could confirm the actual numbers of unit holders in the WFMIF
 
... I am further advised that a net distribution will be made to Unit holders by Trilogy ASAP ...

Given the uncertainty of capital repayments from LM, I wouldn't be surprised if more than 10% is withheld for fund operating expenses (which includes Trilogy's fee). The more spread out repayments of capital are, the bigger percentage of each repayment such expenses will be.
 
"This is from Trilogy's latest spruik to investors, "• Notwithstanding this, the LM Managed Performance Fund is still raising capital from overseas investors. With Maddison Estate in its infancy and no land having been sold, Four Corners questions how distributions to investors in the LM Managed Performance Fund are being paid. LM confirmed to Four Corners that capital from new investors in LM Managed Performance Fund along with cash and income from other assets in the fund is being used to pay returns to existing investors." (emphasis added)

Now, before we all get carried away, read this excerpt from the recent SQM independent assessment of Trilogy's Monthly Income Trust:

trilogy_monthly_income_trust_distributions_info.jpg

"distribution income will be sourced from a variety of different sources" ---> "application monies", that's NEW investment, "Cash holdings", and "Loans repaid by borrowers" - geez, can anyone pick the difference between LM and Trilogy in regard to these matters?

What's all that about "fund managers in glass houses"?"
 
Top