Lindt Cafe siege

Has anyone else been somewhat astonished by how inept NSW police response to this seems to have been. I assumed after 9/11 and the money that had been poured into counter-terrorism our largest state would be a lot more capable.

For example the Army told them not to use 5.56 mm rounds because they shatter. They went ahead and used them anyway and one of the hostages dies from a police bullet shattering. Their specialist negotiation van gets water damaged in 2011 and they don't bother replacing it. Consequently they try and run the negotiations out of a one phone line office in a leagues club and lots of information never reaches the negotiators.

banco said:

Has anyone else been somewhat astonished by how inept NSW police response to this seems to have been. I assumed after 9/11 and the money that had been poured into counter-terrorism our largest state would be a lot more capable.

For example the Army told them not to use 5.56 mm rounds because they shatter. They went ahead and used them anyway and one of the hostages dies from a police bullet shattering. Their specialist negotiation van gets water damaged in 2011 and they don't bother replacing it. Consequently they try and run the negotiations out of a one phone line office in a leagues club and lots of information never reaches the negotiators.

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Most people on the planet are resistant to change when normal communication styles are used, unfortunately. You'd think that the words "those rounds will cause shattering, don't use them" would be enough. Nope. Happens in all walks of life. All that's needed is a mental script which says "never second guess yourself in this work!" in order not to hear someone's correction. There's a way to cause actual change but it's extremely hard work. A useful short cut is just to make the recipient feel like it's their idea. Then it will be accepted.

eg. "I'm not sure what's best here. Are you going to use the shattering or non-shattering rounds? I know the shattering ones can cause injury, even to you guys, but hmmm... I don't know. I'll leave it to you to make the right decision. You always do". You have to tip-toe around and be very indirect.

Risk averse = no one's accountable. Australia the whimpy country

Tisme said:

Risk averse = no one's accountable. Australia the whimpy country

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Exactly, if proactive you get blame: if an attack had been launched at the start and one hostage killed or even just the hostage taker killed, The Project and cie would be raising hell on the absence of negotiations etc costing a life.
The family would sue and win against whoever would have acted
By not acting no responsabilities, no blame..just following orders and procedures..pathetic but this can be seen everywhere: corporate world, education, etc
A bushfire comes, you evacuate and let burn
Someone drowning/dying on a roadsid: let it go, you are not qualified->call 000 or get sued if you try to help and fail
Trained to be brainless robots, penalized by law if acting otherwise.
Not specific to Australia, probably a sign of the time for the western world.
Just have to wait for a procedure be drawn, good luck otherwise

qldfrog said:

Exactly, if proactive you get blame: if an attack had been launched at the start and one hostage killed or even just the hostage taker killed, The Project and cie would be raising hell on the absence of negotiations etc costing a life.
The family would sue and win against whoever would have acted
By not acting no responsabilities, no blame..just following orders and procedures..pathetic but this can be seen everywhere: corporate world, education, etc
A bushfire comes, you evacuate and let burn
Someone drowning/dying on a roadsid: let it go, you are not qualified->call 000 or get sued if you try to help and fail
Trained to be brainless robots, penalized by law if acting otherwise.
Not specific to Australia, probably a sign of the time for the western world.
Just have to wait for a procedure be drawn, good luck otherwise

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Remember Thredbro? Television footage of people in hi viz standing around like a multitude of council workers waiting for their turn on the shovel.

There was the oil spill on the Sunshine Coast and the govt sent Qbuild workers with a plastic bag, a shared shovel and rake to clean the coastline in a cynical show of care waiting for the swell to finally clean it and send off to the coral sea via the barrier reef.

The 2011 Brisbane floods and the mayor using wedge politics to raise a "mud army" that marshalled at the Mt Coot-tha gardens on buses for hours in each morning; filling out risk assessments before travelling 3 klicks down the road to a small suburb where they were herded to the sidelines while the real volunteers went about doing something tangible.

Not sure how efficient the rescue of two blokes down the mine in Tassie was, but Billy Shorten made his name on that one.