Labor's carbon tax lie

drsmith said:

It's actually better to recognise the cost of raising children directly through money than through rebates through specifics which require much more of an audit trail.

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Why? I'm not sure I'm properly understanding your point above. Why shouldn't families be obliged to actually make a claim for this sort of rebate? There is a growing culture of expecting money to just land in the bank account.

My point was rather that this 'new promise to families' is essentially just a different way of paying much of the same money, and another example of the government attempting to create the impression of being additionally kind to 'working families'.

None of these cash giveaways will save the government. When the electorate decided Howard's time was up, his government was tossed out regardless of the tax cuts and middle class welfare that was dished out by that government.

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Agree. But we may both be wrong. Let's see if there's any bounce in the polls after next Tuesday.

Julia said:

Why? I'm not sure I'm properly understanding your point above. Why shouldn't families be obliged to actually make a claim for this sort of rebate? There is a growing culture of expecting money to just land in the bank account.

My point was rather that this 'new promise to families' is essentially just a different way of paying much of the same money, and another example of the government attempting to create the impression of being additionally kind to 'working families'.

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The context of my comment was from the perspective of efficient tax transfer. It was not a judgement on the merit or politics of this specific payment.

Julia said:

Agree. But we may both be wrong. Let's see if there's any bounce in the polls after next Tuesday.

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Let's see if Labor can get through a week without something blowing up in its face.

Apparently this change to the rebate has more to do with the government trying to shift funds out of the 12/13 budget. It will be payed out in June this year and likely shifted to July or later next year.

Also doubles as a sweetener for families given the carbon tax comes into effect shortly.......even though it really has nothing to do with the carbon tax, it's more a buying votes and shift accounting stunt.

Cheers

Jenny Macklin said this morning the reason for the change is that not enough were claiming the rebate.

She also said busy families don't have time to collect receipts

What a crock

If people aren't claiming the rebate they are either too lazy or just don't need the money.

So what does the Govt do when people can't be bothered ?

Force the money on them via their bank accounts.

This money will be spent on a range of things other then school books, this is a blatant bribe once again WE will pay this time via the budget and any other way they can try to bludge the money out of people who still have some left.

MrBurns said:

Jenny Macklin said this morning the reason for the change is that not enough were claiming the rebate.

She also said busy families don't have time to collect receipts

What a crock

If people aren't claiming the rebate they are either too lazy or just don't need the money.

So what does the Govt do when people can't be bothered ?

Force the money on them via their bank accounts.

This money will be spent on a range of things other then school books, this is a blatant bribe once again WE will pay this time via the budget and any other way they can try to bludge the money out of people who still have some left.

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Yep, how I see it exactly.

PIIGS?

Pfffffft

FAGS will be the new PIIGS

France, Australia, Greece, Spain

wayneL said:

PIIGS?

Pfffffft

FAGS will be the new PIIGS

France, Australia, Greece, Spain

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FAGS piffle

It will be POOFS

Portugal, France, Oceana, Oman, Spain

(Oman's running out of oil)

I'm now jumping threads...sorry....but as a public school teacher for 32 years I would like to know where this $820 comes from. Most resource schemes are only a couple of hundred dollars and if 80% of parents pay we cheer loudly! Uniforms are only $200 tops and as for excursions, unless you enrol in Marine Studies so you can go fishing the $820 looks like a good profit margin to me. If we really want to hand out money to parents how about we give it those who perform! Instead of teacher performance pay what about student performance pay.....now I am being silly! wishful thinking

MrBurns said:

Force the money on them via their bank accounts.

This money will be spent on a range of things other then school books, this is a blatant bribe once again WE will pay this time via the budget and any other way they can try to bludge the money out of people who still have some left.

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For whatever reason, Labor is attempting to circulate money. They see that this stimulates the local economy a little. As long as the reason is responsible , they are not really concerned how it is spent.

Is it about buying votes? Yes because they are not going to get them on their performance.
Labor obviously believe if they stuff up in some area's, then they can rectify that in another.
In a poll in one of the papers, "Will the budget make you more likely vote for Labor?"
No.... 84.4%. This is only on 10,000 votes so far.

With Windsor and Oakeshott now looking at the Thompson fiasco, it will be interesting to see the poll numbers at the next poll. That is, Labor primary vote.

What will happen in the meantime..... Not much!
joea

joea said:

Is it about buying votes? Yes because they are not going to get them on their performance.
joea

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I should stress "performance", is that perceived by the people through the media, the parties and academics.

It appears the Australian people do not go much on "achieved performance".

"Bad news sell". Sums it up.
joea

HOW THE CARBON TAX WORKS
AIM: To reduce carbon emissions in Australia to stop climate change.
METHOD : Impose a carbon tax on big business
Cost of production increases so cost of goods increase.
People buy less because of higher prices.
Less goods produced because of lower demand results in less emissions.
RESULT: Less emissions – planet saved.
Government gets more revenue from imposed carbon tax.

REAL WORLD: Government compensates people because of higher prices.
(paid for by revenue from tax)
Demand for goods remains same despite higher prices because of
Government handout .
Manufacturers go overseas – lower wages and no carbon (or lower) tax.
Manufacturers income increases (overseas) – Australians still pay higher prices
justified because of $23 carbon tax (even though manufacturers make savings
overseas) and still require Government handouts.
Carbon emissions decrease in Australia because no industries here.
Carbon emissions increase overseas as manufacturer has just
changed location.

REAL RESULT: Australian manufacturing moves overseas.
Decrease in jobs. Less tax collected from Carbon tax and from
people with jobs.
Australia has to sell more coal overseas to keep economy going.
Carbon emissions increase overseas.
Planet not saved!
Australia becomes one big mine. (Hope they don’t run out!)

Interesting to see that the Tasmanian Labor-Green state government has decided to effectively block the carbon tax at the state level by introducing wholesale electricity price controls.

In layman's terms, the impact of the carbon tax on electricity prices will be absorbed by the state government and will not be passed on to consumers, the reason given being that the resulting price rises were "a burden Tasmanian households could ill-afford to bear".

This substantially removes the carbon tax from the Tasmanian economy, instead transferring it to an increase in general taxation and/or further cuts in services (most likely health I'd expect) compared to the levels they would otherwise have been at rather than forcing the burden directly onto electricity consumers. As such, the intent of a CO2 tax resulting in an incentive for consumers to use less energy has been removed so far as electricity is concerned.

It gets even more interesting when you realise that the state government is close to broke with the health system in crisis etc and yet sees holding down electricity prices as a higher priority. Interesting to say the least, especially given that this is a Labor-Green government doing it.

http://www.media.tas.gov.au/release.php?id=34842

dutchie said:

HOW THE CARBON TAX WORKS
AIM: To reduce carbon emissions in Australia to stop climate change.
METHOD : Impose a carbon tax on big business
Cost of production increases so cost of goods increase.
People buy less because of higher prices.
Less goods produced because of lower demand results in less emissions.
RESULT: Less emissions – planet saved.
Government gets more revenue from imposed carbon tax.

REAL WORLD: Government compensates people because of higher prices.
(paid for by revenue from tax)
Demand for goods remains same despite higher prices because of
Government handout .
Manufacturers go overseas – lower wages and no carbon (or lower) tax.
Manufacturers income increases (overseas) – Australians still pay higher prices
justified because of $23 carbon tax (even though manufacturers make savings
overseas) and still require Government handouts.
Carbon emissions decrease in Australia because no industries here.
Carbon emissions increase overseas as manufacturer has just
changed location.

REAL RESULT: Australian manufacturing moves overseas.
Decrease in jobs. Less tax collected from Carbon tax and from
people with jobs.
Australia has to sell more coal overseas to keep economy going.
Carbon emissions increase overseas.
Planet not saved!
Australia becomes one big mine. (Hope they don’t run out!)

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Correct. I've thought so from the very beginning. Tasmanification, a new word in the political landscape.

Logique said:

Correct. I've thought so from the very beginning. Tasmanification, a new word in the political landscape.

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Tasmania has now become Australia's Greece.

Calliope said:

Tasmania has now become Australia's Greece.

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Sadly agreed.

Hydro - still in business but for practical purposes strangled to death back in 1983. Where the Moonah Workshops once were is now, amongst other things, a national chain furniture store.

North-West Acid - gone with hardly a trace remaining.
APPM Burnie - closed and about to be demolished.
APPM Wesley Vale - closed.
Tioxide - all that remains is the fence.
Wander - gone.
Southern Aluminium - empty buildings and a falling down sign are all that remains.
Coats Paton - closed, largely derelict with some community group using some of the buldings.
Electrona - closed with a couple of buildings remaining but that's it.
ACI - gone and demolished.
Sheridan - gone with a construction and company using some of the buildings.
APM Port Huon - gone with the only thing remaining being the dam that supplied the water to the mill.

TEMCO - currently shut down and under review. May never re-open. This is a big one (and its demise leaves a critical hole in Australia's ability to manufacture literally anything - no alloys = no steel production without reliance on imports = national defence issues).

Norske Skog (known for most of its existence as ANM) - well known to be seriously struggling.

Bell Bay Aluminium (known for most of its existence as Comalco) - I think just about everyone in the state knows that the clock is ticking on this one in a big way.

Which leaves the zinc works and Cadbury as really the only significant industries that haven't been killed off or are likely to be. Even Blundstone boots are now manufactured overseas. A very sad state of affairs, especially when you realise that at one point Tas ran third amongst the Australian states for heavy industrial output, exceeded only by NSW and Vic.

How about we try completely closing the financial services and coal mining industries in NSW? Or shut down iron ore and gas in WA? Or close all manufacturing in Adelaide? Or sack every public servant in Canberra? The local (state) impact of any of those is comparable to what has actually occurred in Tasmania as a result of this "no development anywhere near anybody" mentality enforced by the Greens and their supporters.

Alternative jobs? Where? Doing what? I've been hearing promises of "save it and the tourists will come" my entire adult life but, thus far at least, they have failed to turn up (and those that do don't spend anywhere near enough to sustain year round high wage employment in the industry).

Nice one Glen, a good summary, not that the 'Jeanne D'Arc' of carbon will care in the slightest. You see, all we've done is 'priced' carbon.

It's not a tax at all for '$$$working families$$$'

Yeh tourism will save us, we can all flip burgers and cook french fries at $6/hr. Good old Labor looking after our kids future, priceless.
The one good thing to come out of the carbon tax is that it will hammer home to the average voter how bad life under Labor and Greens can really be. As someone said early in the threads. All those voters that decided life was getting boring under Howard and Costello, I wonder how they are feeling Now, exciting enough for you.LOL

If the Government were so serious about our Green future , why did they dump the Green Building initiative / rebate from the Budget saving them $504 million ? Taking away any motivation to build energy efficient structures.
Just more proof this is just another excuse for a Tax .

Well it's time to look at what's actually happening as we get close to 1st July.

Here in Hobart, the price of mains gas (as distinct from bottled gas) is going up 5.1% according to Tas Gas. Residential rate will increase from 9.35 to 9.83 cents per kWh.

That's the only "official" price change announcement, for anything, that I've seen thus far. The new rate was adverised in the papers today and I've taken the old rate from the company's website which hasn't been updated yet. The advertisement clearly states that the increase is due to government policy (ie the carbon tax).

I don't personally use mains gas, I've just posted this for info.