Labor's carbon tax lie

[Smurf1976]

We have to stop the export of coal. Set an example, then Indonesia, Africa and all the other coal producing companies will follow.

In principle I'd like us to stop exporting coal and especially gas since we could add so much more value to it here at home.

But I'm all too aware that if we don't export it then we'd better build up a massive military capability and do so real quick. Either we sell it or they'll take it by force I'd expect.

 

[sptrawler]

In principle I'd like us to stop exporting coal and especially gas since we could add so much more value to it here at home.

But I'm all too aware that if we don't export it then we'd better build up a massive military capability and do so real quick. Either we sell it or they'll take it by force I'd expect.

Obviously no one thinks on this aspect smurph, 300million sitting there in Indonesia must be just shaking their heads, in wonder.
Not only the energy resources, but the agricultural potential of northern Australia, we sit back and say we don't want to live there, we don't want to develop it.
It is only a matter of time before someone else says, if you aren't going to use it we will.IMO

22 million of us will be in deep $hit.

 

[drsmith]

Is one factor the carbon tax ?

The resource is located in deep, remote waters, has a high carbon dioxide content and would be technically difficult to extract.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...mercially-viable/story-e6frg9df-1226618830536

 

[drsmith]

Europe's carbon price continues to tank,

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/polit...uld-hit-australian-budget-20130417-2hzg1.html

 

[drsmith]

Some meat around the central detail about what the Coalition are going to do with the carbon tax,

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ost-to-save-20bn/story-e6frg6xf-1226622978039

 

[Knobby22]

I said earlier in this thread that this carbon credit system was not the way to go.
Its just too difficult and relies too much on dodgy economic theory and heavy oversight. I would like to see a more efficient way of going about it.

 

[drsmith]

The European carbon price has continued to fall,

The close today at 2.80 rebounded from another record low earlier at 2.46. Over the past two days, the EUA lost 1.92

Europe’s New Anti-Green Majority Scores Huge Victory EU Parliament Refuses To Save Its Dying Carbon Market

The European Union’s climate change policy is on the brink of collapse today after MEPs torpedoed Europe’s flagship CO2 emissions trading scheme by voting against a measure to support the price of carbon permits. The price of carbon crashed up to 45 per cent to a record-low €2.63 a metric ton (and later to €2.46 – Anthony), after the European Parliament rejected a proposal to change the EU emissions-trading laws to delay the sale of 900m CO2 permits on the world’s biggest carbon markets.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/04/17/watching-the-death-of-the-eu-carbon-market/

 

[sptrawler]

Funny that the press isn't all over it, as time goes by it looks more and more like a big fat tax, built around a big fat lie.

Where are the new industries, where are the brown coal power stations being de commissioned?

 

[Knobby22]

It's been big news on the ABC sptrawler.

 

[bellenuit]

It's been big news on the ABC sptrawler.

I don't know about ABC TV or its main radio broadcasts, but I was listening to News Radio this morning for about 2 hours as I wasn't sleeping well and each time they brought up the story they just asked opinion of two different academics who both said that Australia should not follow European carbon pricing down, but instead maintain our original target of $23 a tonne. Seems like cloud cuckoo land to me. IMO carbon pricing can only work, assuming it works at all, if it is globally implemented. Otherwise you just damage your own economy with no benefit. I was surprised that the ABC couldn't find at least one person to express a counter view.

 

[Smurf1976]

I said earlier in this thread that this carbon credit system was not the way to go.
Its just too difficult and relies too much on dodgy economic theory and heavy oversight.

The whole thing always was about traders making money rather than doing anything to actually cut emissions.

There's a lot of dodgy things going on which fit into the "trading" category. Amongst other things, electricity industry CO2 emissions are set to go up by a very significant amount going forward no matter who wins the election or what happens to the carbon price. Let's just say that the recent emissions reduction came about largely through time shifting of generation - emissions will go right back up, and the game is basically to do so after the carbon price is either scrapped or at least reduced.

 

[Julia]

I was surprised that the ABC couldn't find at least one person to express a counter view.

Well, there was Professor Warwick McKibbin given plenty of air time on "7.30" last night where he made crystal clear his view that the government's scheme was woefully designed. Leigh Sales allowed him full rein to express his criticism.
Then I've heard similar views expressed on Radio National in the last 24 hours.

 

[bellenuit]

Well, there was Professor Warwick McKibbin given plenty of air time on "7.30" last night where he made crystal clear his view that the government's scheme was woefully designed. Leigh Sales allowed him full rein to express his criticism.
Then I've heard similar views expressed on Radio National in the last 24 hours.

Thanks, I must check it out on iView. Perhaps it comes down to who produces what, that determines what is aired.

 

[sptrawler]

Well, there was Professor Warwick McKibbin given plenty of air time on "7.30" last night where he made crystal clear his view that the government's scheme was woefully designed. Leigh Sales allowed him full rein to express his criticism.
Then I've heard similar views expressed on Radio National in the last 24 hours.

It was great to see Leigh give him time to express his point. I wish all interviews were carried out that way.

I know, when some people are interviewed they tend to move the answers away from the questions and need to be reigned in eg Gillard.

However when they interview someone to give an opinion, they should let that person give that opinion, then question them.
I hope Leigh continues with the decorum she displayed with McKibbin, it makes for much better current affairs.

 

[Julia]

Well, it's her job to get answers. With a highly respected academic like Prof McKibbin, fairly obviously she's going to be respectful of his answers.

Pretty different from when some scungy politician is pushing the usual dishonest spin. Then surely you'd expect her to be pretty aggressive.

 

[sptrawler]

Well, it's her job to get answers. With a highly respected academic like Prof McKibbin, fairly obviously she's going to be respectful of his answers.

Pretty different from when some scungy politician is pushing the usual dishonest spin. Then surely you'd expect her to be pretty aggressive.

+1 agree completely, however there was a lot of talking over people pre the carbon tax introduction. Now with reflection, maybe reporters are more self appraising.

 

[Smurf1976]

Here we go.....

http://www.news.com.au/money/cost-o...-price-explosion/story-fnagkbpv-1226664697991

It's been coming for a long time and now it's just about here. Gas prices set to boom, to the detriment of industry and households alike. And the biggest impact is that we're about to see quite a few financial millstones in the form of gas-fired power stations, just like the oil-fired plants ended up being 35 years earlier.

In 2013 there's an increased use of gas to generate electricity due to the carbon tax and the hydro dams are being drained for the same reason. In the not too distant future we'll see gas and hydro generation fall in a heap, one because it gets too expensive and the other once the lakes are drained. Then it's back to near total reliance on coal.

The timing is hard to predict with precision, although I can say with certainty that at least one power generation company has been predicting gas to get expensive circa 2014 since the 1990's so it's nothing new. Gas is not a cheap option going forward, and that makes moving away from coal a lot more difficult (though it can still be done, but not as easily as just building a few gas-fired power plants).

 

[sptrawler]

Here we go.....

http://www.news.com.au/money/cost-o...-price-explosion/story-fnagkbpv-1226664697991

It's been coming for a long time and now it's just about here. Gas prices set to boom, to the detriment of industry and households alike. And the biggest impact is that we're about to see quite a few financial millstones in the form of gas-fired power stations, just like the oil-fired plants ended up being 35 years earlier.

In 2013 there's an increased use of gas to generate electricity due to the carbon tax and the hydro dams are being drained for the same reason. In the not too distant future we'll see gas and hydro generation fall in a heap, one because it gets too expensive and the other once the lakes are drained. Then it's back to near total reliance on coal.

The timing is hard to predict with precision, although I can say with certainty that at least one power generation company has been predicting gas to get expensive circa 2014 since the 1990's so it's nothing new. Gas is not a cheap option going forward, and that makes moving away from coal a lot more difficult (though it can still be done, but not as easily as just building a few gas-fired power plants).

With the cost of generation rising and the economic activity shrinking, we seem to moving slowly towards a lower common denominator. I think people had better prepare themselves for a standard of living adjustment.

 

[Ijustnewit]

No this can't be true , it must be the Coalitions fault .

" Holden says Carbon Tax adds to car manufacturing woes "

http://www.manmonthly.com.au/news/holden-says-carbon-tax-adds-to-car-manufacturing-w

 

[noco]

No this can't be true , it must be the Coalitions fault .

" Holden says Carbon Tax adds to car manufacturing woes "

http://www.manmonthly.com.au/news/holden-says-carbon-tax-adds-to-car-manufacturing-w

Combet says it will be the coalitions fault if Holden shuts up shop. What a lot of codswaddle.

Mr Combet, what caused Ford to be closing their doors in 201? I would say the carbon tax and the $50 per hour the unions demanded for semi skilled workers. Maybe the unions should get realistic and cut the hourly rate to $35 and help keep both Ford and Holden operational, but I can't see the unions making that happen. They are too greedy and now they are paying the price. No Australian cars and no jobs.

Wyalla may still be going but Geelong will feel the pinch with the Ford closure.