Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Labor's carbon tax lie

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bellenuit said:
I am overseas at the moment so have not heard TA's statements. But if he attributed the electricity price increases either fully or predominantly to the carbon tax, wouldn't it be fair to assume he is referring to increases since July 1st?
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No. He just lied about it. Nothing new there, he's been doing that for a long time now. The only thing is that people are starting to wake up now.
 
Tannin said:
No. He just lied about it. Nothing new there, he's been doing that for a long time now. The only thing is that people are starting to wake up now.
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So you are saying that TA blames the price increases in the 5 years prior to the introduction of the carbon tax on the carbon tax? So, for instance, he is blaming the price increases in the financial year to June 30 2012 on the carbon tax, even though it was introduced on July 1st?

This is strange, because prior to July 1st, he always said the carbon tax WILL increase prices not HAD.
 
bellenuit said:
So you are saying that TA blames the price increases in the 5 years prior to the introduction of the carbon tax on the carbon tax? So, for instance, he is blaming the price increases in the financial year to June 30 2012 on the carbon tax, even though it was introduced on July 1st?

This is strange, because prior to July 1st, he always said the carbon tax WILL increase prices not HAD.
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Not quite. Abbott plays a very clever game. He habitually walks a fine line between hyperbole and distortion on the one hand and outright lies on the other. He's very good at it, and nearly always he gets the best of both worlds by seeming to say the big, outrageous thing but actually not quite really saying it. When questioned, he backs away neatly and almost always gets away without being picked up on the lie. Journalists, for some reason I cannot comprehend, practically never nail him on this, they just roll over and accept his bland restatement, then go back and print the thing that Abott wants them to print.

In this particular case, he spent the whole day saying that the carbon tax was to blame for all the increases (getting the sensational lie into the news grabs where he wanted it) but afterwards veered away when questioned on it and pretended that he meant something else. Ten minutes later, he does another interview for a different station and the lie comes out again as if nothing had hapened. Abbott is superb at this - I've never seen it done better. But he has started beliving in his own PR now and lost touch with the public ability to recognise truth and decit. Abbott has taken a PR hammering this last couple of weeks because of this, and it will be very difficult for him to recover his lost credibility. The polls are swinging strongly towards Labor now. He still has a very large lead, but the momentum has crossed over. If Abbott was a stock, you'd be taking your profits right now 'cause his price will never be this high again.
 
Tannin said:
Not quite. Abbott plays a very clever game. He habitually walks a fine line between hyperbole and distortion on the one hand and outright lies on the other. He's very good at it, and nearly always he gets the best of both worlds by seeming to say the big, outrageous thing but actually not quite really saying it. When questioned, he backs away neatly and almost always gets away without being picked up on the lie. Journalists, for some reason I cannot comprehend, practically never nail him on this, they just roll over and accept his bland restatement, then go back and print the thing that Abott wants them to print.
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Remove the rererence to clever and change hyperbole to hyperbowl and you're describing Julia Gillard.
 
drsmith said:
Remove the rererence to clever and change hyperbole to hyperbowl and you're describing Julia Gillard.
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Actually Tannin has a pretty good summary of Abbott's behaviour.

I sense the same that the Oz public have started to switch off Abbott

Abbott cannot handle pressure very well so it will be interesting run to the election.

I still think the Coalition will romp in the election but a Labor wipe out seems less likely particularly as Cando beats up Queenslanders, NSW and VIC government's looked complete fools over NDIS as they grovelled back after been beaten up by the public.
 
Considering that the majority of posts on ASF on politics, are interpretations of what the media prints, or speaks
I thought I would share this quote.

"I think the destructive, vicious, negative nature of much of the news media, makes it harder
to govern this country, and harder to attract decent people to run for public office."
Newt Gingrich.

That just about sums it up from me.

joea
 
drsmith said:
They've never switched on to him.

Just consider for a moment if they do. The Labor wipeout will be of unimaginable proportions.
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Touche drsmith, the last thing Abbott has ever been is popular. However, as you sugest what happens if people start and say "I don't like him, but he allways has the right answers".
There is one thing for sure, Julias rant of Tony is negative, was obviously well founded. If someone wasn't standing up and questioning labor, could you imagine the mess.:eek:

Just because a fool says you are negative and obstructive, doesn't mean the fool is right. Better to question a fool than follow one.IMO:xyxthumbs
 
bellenuit said:
This is strange, because prior to July 1st, he always said the carbon tax WILL increase prices not HAD.
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To some extent the impacts of the carbon, or any other, tax start to take effect prior to the actual introduction of the tax in situations where the impending change is widely known prior to the date of commencement.

There are certainly electricity generation companies which operated substantially differently once it became known that a carbon tax would be introduced. It didn't have much impact on actual prices, but it did change operations to some extent.
 
Julia said:
Well, that's at least one bit of good news.
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Obviously they are trying to nullify the publics dislike of their policies i.e the asylum seekers and carbon tax. It will be interesting to see if the public swallows it, tends to look very shallow and undermines their earlier arguments.

The other thing it does is gives the government $23/tonne while they are in. Wouldn't it be just as easy to link it to Europe straight away?
 
sptrawler said:
Obviously they are trying to nullify the publics dislike of their policies i.e the asylum seekers and carbon tax. It will be interesting to see if the public swallows it, tends to look very shallow and undermines their earlier arguments.

The other thing it does is gives the government $23/tonne while they are in. Wouldn't it be just as easy to link it to Europe straight away?
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I guess they need the $23/tonne while they're in to pay for the compensation packages. No floor price = no revenue and the basic economics of the scheme will unravel. I think Abbott is right, the entire compensation/carbon tax scheme needs to be unwound and scrapped. Labor have failed to stay the course with this one.
 
Knobby22 said:
That is good news but haven't they already paid compensation to people earning less than $80,000 a year. Doesn't that mean the floor price stays for this financial year?
Am I missing something?
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Yes the article in the link explains it.
 
Knobby22 said:
That is good news but haven't they already paid compensation to people earning less than $80,000 a year. Doesn't that mean the floor price stays for this financial year?
Am I missing something?
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Yes, it does.

The geniusus that are our current government still think it's reasonable to have a carbon price close to 150% higher than Europe's current market price.

Labor is still sucking up to the Greens because we would still be paying a premium to the overall global market (whatever global market there is) even with the floor price scrapped due to a restriction on permits.

Without a restriction of the UN-backed international permits, the Australian price could crash to as low as $3 or $4. The Greens have been concerned that a very low carbon price would not be enough to drive investment in cleaner energy such as wind, solar and wave power.
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No wonder they've agreed.
 
drsmith said:
Yes, it does.

The geniusus that are our current government still think it's reasonable to have a carbon price close to 150% higher than Europe's current market price.
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That's because its going to fund the Clean Energy Finance Corporation = 10 billion

Funny that, a Govt raising money to help develop industry's, big picture thinking, looking ahead, being responsible, taking the tough decisions, embracing the inevitable.....raising x amount of money to fund x amount of expenditure.

http://www.cefcexpertreview.gov.au/content/Content.aspx?doc=home.htm
 
So_Cynical said:
That's because its going to fund the Clean Energy Finance Corporation = 10 billion
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Do you honestly think the government that brought us the waste of the school halls rorts and the pink batts can spend that money responsibly and effectively? It will be pissed up the wall on crazy arsed schemes that pander to minorities.
 
poverty said:
It will be pissed up the wall on crazy arsed schemes that pander to minorities.
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Indeed.

It's just another Labor slush fund. What's even more staggering than its size is that they are prepared to disadvantage us economically in order to finance it.
 

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