It's Time To Tell China To Get Nicked

[wayneL]

We can point the finger everywhere. Australia as a whole sold itself out.

...and currently falling all over ourselves to sell out the last vestige of dignity we have left, our liberty.

 

[Smurf1976]

Things are getting a bit dark in China it would seem:

China's power supply is struggling as winter temperatures plunge. Is the ban on Australian coal to blame?

While Australian coal has been the latest victim in Beijing's geopolitical stoush with Canberra, swathes of China are facing power shortages right in the thick of winter.

www.abc.net.au

The ABC has also seen an online notice to a middle school in Zhejiang, banning staff and students from turning on heating if temperatures exceeded 3 degrees.

I don't know all the details of the situation but roughly 65% of power generation in China is from coal, 17% hydro, 5% wind, 5% nuclear, 3% gas, 3% solar, 2% biofuels and waste. Oil is a minor source at about 0.1%.

Their hydro dams were pretty much full 4 months ago so can't blame that. Can't really blame the wind or sun for being intermittent that's expected. That leaves the reported coal shortage as the likely explanation.

Now about that coal shortage, well if you stop buying the stuff as they seem to have done well then a shortage isn't hugely surprising.....

 

[IFocus]

As Keating pointed out Australia requires capital to function either international or internal.

One of Keating's points was superannuation was one way to raise capital internally (one of the few for large amounts).

So most of our capital comes from over seas China being a large contributor, stop that and be happy to take a serious haircut on wealth.

Not trying to state a case but need to be realistic as to the consequences.

I suspect Australia will need nuclear weapons longer term to fend off a increasingly aggressive China and a increasingly regressive US that some here keep cheering on.

 

[wayneL]

As Keating pointed out Australia requires capital to function either international or internal.

One of Keating's points was superannuation was one way to raise capital internally (one of the few for large amounts).

So most of our capital comes from over seas China being a large contributor, stop that and be happy to take a serious haircut on wealth.

Not trying to state a case but need to be realistic as to the consequences.

I suspect Australia will need nuclear weapons longer term to fend off a increasingly aggressive China and a increasingly regressive US that some here keep cheering on.

So, in your opinion, do we embrace China, or the US?

 

[IFocus]

So, in your opinion, do we embrace China, or the US?

With China we wont get a choice from now on our relationship will only be on their terms.

Their terms are that we kowtow to China.

How we deal with that remains to be seen.

With the US it will depend on US politics and with current policy settings of withdrawing from around the globe once they secured some sort of self sufficiency in oil supply (this actually started pre Trump its not new) Australia could well be stranded (fuel supply 23 days?).

I don't think we will get to chose it will unfold largely out of Australia's control.

I also don't think people truly understand our greatest future risk is staring at us right now.

This from todays ABC re Doug Anthony on the UK dumping us.


"Here we were, their best friend they'd ever had. We'd sent our forces to Gallipoli, we'd sent our forces to France. The second war we came along and gave all the support possible," Mr Anthony fumed decades later.

"And yet here, after supplying you with about 15 years of food at a concessional price, you go and dump us!"

Doug Anthony, Australia's longest-serving deputy prime minister, dies aged 90

Australia's longest-serving former deputy prime minister, Doug Anthony, dies in a nursing home at the age of 90, his family says.

www.abc.net.au

Stan Grant is worth a read.

I have spent decades reading, writing and thinking about China. This is where I'd start

The world's bloodiest civil war is not the one you think of first but the answer can reveal a lot about the world, writes Stan Grant.

www.abc.net.au

 

[sptrawler]

With China we wont get a choice from now on our relationship will only be on their terms.

Their terms are that we kowtow to China.

How we deal with that remains to be seen.

With the US it will depend on US politics and with current policy settings of withdrawing from around the globe once they secured some sort of self sufficiency in oil supply (this actually started pre Trump its not new) Australia could well be stranded (fuel supply 23 days?).

I don't think we will get to chose it will unfold largely out of Australia's control.

I also don't think people truly understand our greatest future risk is staring at us right now.

This from todays ABC re Doug Anthony on the UK dumping us.


"Here we were, their best friend they'd ever had. We'd sent our forces to Gallipoli, we'd sent our forces to France. The second war we came along and gave all the support possible," Mr Anthony fumed decades later.

"And yet here, after supplying you with about 15 years of food at a concessional price, you go and dump us!"

Doug Anthony, Australia's longest-serving deputy prime minister, dies aged 90

Australia's longest-serving former deputy prime minister, Doug Anthony, dies in a nursing home at the age of 90, his family says.

www.abc.net.au

Stan Grant is worth a read.

I have spent decades reading, writing and thinking about China. This is where I'd start

The world's bloodiest civil war is not the one you think of first but the answer can reveal a lot about the world, writes Stan Grant.

www.abc.net.au

Yes it is ironic, we bagged the U.K for joining the EU, now there are many bagging them for leaving the EU, just shows you please everyone all the time.
Australians needs to get on with putting Australia first.
We had manufacturing, both secondary and tertiary, before we decided to outsource it to Asia and remove tariffs.
It might sound wonderful, removing tariffs and having our companies go broke, but in reality how could our workers compete with third world wages.
Well of course they couldn't, everyone knew that, so we now have the quandary that was started in the 1980's.
What do we do when China stops buying our resources?
Maybe Keating the guru has an answer, after all helped cause the problem by removing tariffs, someone should ask him he is never short an answer. ?
I think we are lucky the Indian dude saved our steel industry, I can see there may well be an opportunity for a resurgence, we will have to sell something.

 

[Smurf1976]

I think we are lucky the Indian dude saved our steel industry, I can see there may well be an opportunity for a resurgence

He's bought TEMCO (the Tasmanian Electro-Metallurgical Company) as well by the way.

TEMCO is the only producer of ferromanganese and silicomanganese in Australia and operates 4 furnaces at Bell Bay, Tasmania. It supplies the domestic market and exports the rest.

Those two materials are both used as alloys in steel production. So he was either going to buy it or be a major customer and he's chosen to buy it.

I'd say he's got a plan yes.

 

[sptrawler]

He's bought TEMCO (the Tasmanian Electro-Metallurgical Company) as well by the way.

TEMCO is the only producer of ferromanganese and silicomanganese in Australia and operates 4 furnaces at Bell Bay, Tasmania. It supplies the domestic market and exports the rest.

Those two materials are both used as alloys in steel production. So he was either going to buy it or be a major customer and he's chosen to buy it.

I'd say he's got a plan yes.

Australia the land of opportunity, it is a shame our bigger companies and super funds play the short game, rather than the long game.
Good on the Indian dude IMO.

 

[qldfrog]

Putting things right...
I could not help reading some articles lately basically linking the Australian coal ban to blackout and freezing conditions etc in China;
with a kind of 'teach them well' boasting morale.

From my knowledge 10y ago, this would be pure BS and Ozzie self boasting propaganda:
the reason: our thermal coal exports were negligible in China vs their consumption, [does not mean negligible for us obviously]

So I went back to my sources of truth: as per covid, climate change, etc: raw pure beautiful numbers and stats:
the findings are as expected :

1) reducing of thermal coal import was planned months ago: in march2020:
https://www.reuters.com/article/chi...ck-domestic-miners-analysts-say-idUKL4N2D213S

2) 95% of THERMAL coal used in China is domestic, so replacing the aussie THERMAL coal is a non issue
This is actually written black on white in the very misleading article:
ANZ said that though China's domestically sourced thermal coal accounts for 95% of consumption, importing 225 million tonnes in 2019
https://www.spglobal.com/marketinte...amid-confusion-over-beijing-s-orders-60702689
So no, there are no people freezing in China due to the ban on aussie call and no, the ban was not backfiring on China with blackout as a consequence ..
Met coal is a different story and might be an issue but sadly, 20y after the coal boom start, most journos are still blindly unaware of the difference between these 2 black rocks
I believe our Met coal is better than the alternative so Chinese steel will be (even more) low quality, crappy and generating even more pollution.
Now, does anyone believe this will halt China?

 

[Smurf1976]

So no, there are no people freezing in China due to the ban on aussie call and no, the ban was not backfiring on China with blackout as a consequence ..

You may well be right as to the cause but one way or another it does seem that China has a problem with electricity supply at present.

If it's not due to a fuel shortage then it's either generation or transmission problems but there's plenty of reports of the lights going out.

It could of course be that China's economy is far stronger than those in the West were thinking. That is, no disruption to supply as such just not enough of it to cope if the economy's grown substantially in recent months?

 

[qldfrog]

You may well be right as to the cause but one way or another it does seem that China has a problem with electricity supply at present.

If it's not due to a fuel shortage then it's either generation or transmission problems but there's plenty of reports of the lights going out.

It could of course be that China's economy is far stronger than those in the West were thinking. That is, no disruption to supply as such just not enough of it to cope if the economy's grown substantially in recent months?

Probably tge effect of covid stop, growth catching up faster than projects etc, remember these hundreds of new coal power stations being built etc.got stopped in february, and now demand exploding..

 

[Smurf1976]

Probably tge effect of covid stop, growth catching up faster than projects etc, remember these hundreds of new coal power stations being built etc.got stopped in february, and now demand exploding..

Whatever the reason, they do seem to have a definite problem:

China’s effort to punish Australia backfires

The towering skyscrapers in Changsha have stopped glowing.

www.news.com.au

The Financial Times reports dozens of Chinese cities and at least four provinces have imposed rules on electricity use that include residents and businesses cutting how much power they use.

I don't know the details but either they're short on generating capacity or they're short on fuel to run it with (or both). Given that electricity is all pervasive economically, depending on how bad it gets it may well cause some disruption to manufacturing etc.

 

[SirRumpole]

Whatever the reason, they do seem to have a definite problem:

China’s effort to punish Australia backfires

The towering skyscrapers in Changsha have stopped glowing.

www.news.com.au

I don't know the details but either they're short on generating capacity or they're short on fuel to run it with (or both). Given that electricity is all pervasive economically, depending on how bad it gets it may well cause some disruption to manufacturing etc.

Anyone have a feeling of schadenfreude ?

 

[qldfrog]

Anyone have a feeling of schadenfreude ?

And our side of the fake news/propagands is not stopping.
This morninghttps://www.news.com.au/finance/bus...d/news-story/14052f830be0a48080687e6fb9a8e1e5
If you actually read carefully, they do not actually say that australian coal ban is causing the outage but they imply it fron title to the end.
Which is BS as i hope my previous post has now proven.if you do not believe me, please do your own research,the ban has no link to power shortage in China
The sheeple stuck at home, unable to see family even at chrismas and whose jobs are going in smoke can now feel good and think: teach the bastards well.
The scary bit is that this is the kind of propaganda we prepare the population before wars and similar niceties.

 

[Smurf1976]

.if you do not believe me, please do your own research,the ban has no link to power shortage in China

The information out of China is such that I don't think anyone really knows what the cause is, only that there seems to be a problem with supply not meeting demand. Whether that's just a minor glitch due to some unfortunate technical problems or whether it's symptomatic of something far more serious I won't claim to know.

I wouldn't suggest Australians get too cocky about it though. It's not as though we don't have rather a lot of problems in that industry in Australia and a need to fix quite a bit of out of service plant before a heatwave arrives.

 

[qldfrog]

The information out of China is such that I don't think anyone really knows what the cause is, only that there seems to be a problem with supply not meeting demand. Whether that's just a minor glitch due to some unfortunate technical problems or whether it's symptomatic of something far more serious I won't claim to know.

I wouldn't suggest Australians get too cocky about it though. It's not as though we don't have rather a lot of problems in that industry in Australia and a need to fix quite a bit of out of service plant before a heatwave arrives.

fully agree, make no mistake, there is only one loser with this ban and it is us.

 

[sptrawler]

fully agree, make no mistake, there is only one loser with this ban and it is us.

Unless Australia accepts that it will have to diversify its market, it will just end up being owned by China, it is inevitable with an open free enterprise economy.
We have become dependent on China trade, China has a large enough economy and a regulated currency, in reality as I said many years ago China can buy Australia with ash tray money.
Australia is driven by greed and a misplaced value of self importance, it is only a matter of time before the two characteristics, trip over each other.
Its a shame the media, doesn't actually focus on nation building issues, above headline chasing issues.
The good thing is, with the corona virus, the media has had less time to get in the way of policy and economic development.
Just my opinion.

 

[SirRumpole]

Unless a lot of media organisations are way off the beam, the consensus is that power rationing is due to the coal ban.

‘The Whole City Was Dark’: China Rations Electricity for Millions (Published 2020)

Warning of coal shortages, officials are trying to curb energy usage by telling residents not to use electric stoves and extinguishing lights on building facades and billboards.

www.nytimes.com

‘It hit us badly’: China’s businesses left cold by worst blackouts in decade

Provinces across China are struggling with the worst blackouts in nearly 10 years, as authorities try to curb energy use by imposing restrictions on businesses and residents.

www.scmp.com

‘Politics come first’ as ban on Australian coal worsens China’s power cuts

Factories and street lights shut down to save energy as embargo contributes to shortages

www.ft.com

 

[sptrawler]

Unless a lot of media organisations are way off the beam, the consensus is that power rationing is due to the coal ban.

No better way of stirring the pot, even if they are on the money, it will only worsen China, Australia relations.
China is pizzed off with Australia rubbing their noses in it, so what do the media do, put their foot on China's head?
I certainly hope the media is right, this time.
If the reporting is wrong, tensions escalate, media have a story. If the reporting is right, tensions escalate, media have a story. It all becomes easy articles.
I fail to understand how reporting China's electrical issue, really improves our position, it only appears to make us look like we are trying to kick sand in their faces, which isn't really a good look IMO.
Actually it is pretty un Australian IMO.
Only my opinion, maybe gloating and smugness is the new Australia and I'm more old school.
Maybe the Chinese power issues has nothing to do with our coal supplies and we are just re enforcing China's opinion of us.

 

[sptrawler]

Ooops just when we thought it was getting better.

China suspends Australian timber imports from NSW and Western Australia

China has suspended imports of timber from New South Wales and Western Australia after local customs officers found pests in cargoes from those states, the General Administration of Customs said.

www.abc.net.au