Is there a GOD?

Sorry to hear of your loss Gav

gav said:

These days I really don't know what I believe or think.

It is strange that I can see this irrationality in another human/s, but at the same time knowing I'd do exactly the same in that situation...

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Only you can answer that question yourself..

Gav, that's such a sad story. I hope you are doing ok.

If you feel up to it, take a listen to this -

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=889

It may be of some comfort...I don't know

"This American Life" produces some amazing, very humanistic stories. They produced the critically acclaimed trilogy on the Financial Crisis as well. Good listening.

I too am sincerely sorry to hear about your friend gav It's a pretty scary thought that at any stage we could go to bed not to wake the next morning

FWIW I believe that we have an eternal soul (after we are born) - how/what that soul experiences after the death of the physical body is something that awaits us all IMO

On the note of time as a wave and us perceiving time differently, I'm all for that. Surely all of us have experience the flow of time changing at different times in our life - eg this day is taking forever, etc. Although I had previously thought that this might have been a function of getting older, eg the time we experience becomes a smaller proportion of our total experience and so is perceived as passing more quickly?

Gotta love this conversation

jonojpsg said:

I too am sincerely sorry to hear about your friend gav It's a pretty scary thought that at any stage we could go to bed not to wake the next morning

FWIW I believe that we have an eternal soul (after we are born) - how/what that soul experiences after the death of the physical body is something that awaits us all IMO

On the note of time as a wave and us perceiving time differently, I'm all for that. Surely all of us have experience the flow of time changing at different times in our life - eg this day is taking forever, etc. Although I had previously thought that this might have been a function of getting older, eg the time we experience becomes a smaller proportion of our total experience and so is perceived as passing more quickly?

Gotta love this conversation

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Gav not good I have lost 5 suddenly.
Close friends Boyfriend was killed in a road accident on the W/E.
A very good girl "Friend" of ours has terminal spine Cancer and will partner me to the Crows Essendon Match on Friday night.
She is an avid Crows fan and this sadly may well be the last game she will ever attend!
In one respect I think ---while tragic---your friend is indeed lucky!
Would hate to be in Kathy's position!

A few Years ago a mate left for work--he caught a train.work called his wife when he didnt arrive after 3 hrs late. He had been found on a footpath and had died for no reason.

JONO
Apart from "faith" how did you come to your belief?

sorry to hear gav

stay cool

tech/a said:

Close friends Boyfriend was killed in a road accident on the W/E.
A very good girl "Friend" of ours has terminal spine Cancer and will partner me to the Crows Essendon Match on Friday night.

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Not good Tech.
I hear this and think how blessed am i. You really need to stop and celebrate those little victories each day. Regardless of faith, we're cognizant of our lives and our impending death; that's the gift. Love it all and soak it up. As you have just reminded me, not all of us get this chance, not all of us get the opportunities to live and love.

one of the best places I've found for answers to the creation vs evolution issue is answersingenesis

its a creation science site, but they do a great job at answering almost every argument the evolutionist presents

Gav and Tech, so sorry to hear of your friends. It seems that whenever there is death, there is usually mention of God. No one has ever given me reason to believe that we don't have a "God conscious" part in us - and this seems to be confirmed with how many people respond when in danger or with the death of a loved one.

I'm not one to push religious beliefs on to others and for that reason rarely get into the exchanges in these "religious" type threads. With some hesitation, I will share this true experience - take it or leave it is fine with me. I had a near death experience quite some time ago when my kids were still little, but it's something I have never forgotten.

I'd had major surgery and then the next day found myself in serious trouble with a massive internal hemorrhage. I was rushed back to the OT where they subsequently found the tie had come off a major artery. While lying on the table just prior to the anesthetic feeling very weak, an incredible peace came over me. I felt so enveloped in this amazing presence, so full of peace with a total absence of fear. When I came round after surgery, that same presence and overwhelming sense of peace was still there and remained with unusual intensity for many days to follow.

Although I was brought up in a religious environment, I have questioned many things over the years. I like to prove things for myself. During some of the tougher times in life, I have sometimes questioned if God is still there. But then there have been times when things happen that would have to be beyond coincidence alone. Sometimes the answers come so differently to what we might have expected, but ultimately are a much better solution.

So, at this stage, I have no reason not to believe there is a higher being. To me, this would be like saying the wind does not exist just because we can't see it. We can feel it, can see how it moves the trees, etc. When one feels that sense of peace and sees what appears to be the hand of a higher being at work, I guess the rest is up to how we decide to interpret it.

I think the word "religion" in itself doesn't necessarily mean much to do with God - sadly it can have more to do with man-made ideas and power.

Just my thoughts...

weatherbill said:

one of the best places I've found for answers to the creation vs evolution issue is answersingenesis

its a creation science site, but they do a great job at answering almost every argument the evolutionist presents

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Oxymoron of the day - "creation science"

gav said:

Just last week I lost a good friend, died in his sleep aged just 31 - cause unknown.(

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Gav,

Very sorry to hear of your loss. Unfortunately I know what your going through. I lost a dear friend suddenly to a brain hemmorhage a few years ago, he was 31 and also engadged to be married.

I don't believe he's looking down from a better place, I don't see how one can 'be' anything when you're dead. Just my opinion.
I can tell you that eventually time will ease the grief you're feeling. Indeed, his fiancee has since got married and is very happy now, living and loving life.

Personally, over time I've come to cherish the time we spent together, and the antics we got up to. There are no more tears, only happy memories.
I wish you well.

hi,

My thoughts on a very personal subject, the body is just a body we use this time on earth.

I have NO doubt at all that the spirit (soul) lives on.

Hope that helps Gav.

Possibly the one topic I love more than anything else to think about.

Its also interesting that the question can never get a simple yes or no response.

Maybe the question should be do you believe in God (s)
YES
NO
if so which (One) (s).
List here...

How about "can you beleive in God (s) and not the bible?
I personally think that's probably preferable

Physics & geology tell us that creationists time-lines are wrong.
Yet creationists will argue this fact and have come up with a million reasons why they are right and science is wrong.

I've never understood why science and spirituality have to be mutually exclusive for the vast majority. It's just as impressive to me if God or whomever made the earth 4.5 billion years ago and that evolution was part of the grand scheme. Why this line in the sand you cant cross?

The vast majority of religions think the Bible & their own religious texts are the "Real Deal" Someone has to be wrong here, we can't all be right.

Come on now... if there is a Christian God I cant see him/her/it requiring our worship. I always wonder If he/she/it is omnipotent & omniscient what's to keep their interest in existing "alive" as it where.
Are we it? are we the reason for Gods existence?
We are rather distracting & colourful...but I have my doubts we are the be all and end all for his existence. I want to know what he does with his spare time, what his spare time is...

I want to know why he made all those other planets / stars / nebula / galaxies. Are we supposed to believe that God made all that 1st and only populated this little mud-ball with life, especially since science has already found microbes on bodies other than Earth?
If he was going to make only one planet with life and we are created in him image, I'm pretty sure just like alot of us he would have been compelled to trade up to a bigger "house" We are made in his image after all.

Do we exist on after death?
At the most basic fundamental level, the atomic level, the atoms that make up your body exist as entities for a long time. Up to millions of years, when you die your atoms do not "die" they scatter to reform in parts of other constructions. So technically as some of your atoms will reform as part of another living thing at some point, so yes you do.

I could blather on for years but will end by saying, I really think that at the end of the day if you beleive it's not up for debate.
You either do or do not, that's your business & you should be allowed to beleive as you want to.

The interesting questions are not IF GOD exists but WHY he exists.

hey Gav, sympathies my friend ... may i say the "vibe" of your post was one of a genuine friend (and dedicated partner to your wife as well) --- nice stuff -- interesting how even over an internet forum the essence of the person becomes obvious ---- all the best with your grief .

Julia said:

My father was a highly intelligent, very well educated person, had no time whatsoever for religion but nevertheless had an unshakeable conviction that there was some sort of perpetual spiritual existence. I jokingly said to him, 'well, when you die, send me a sign that proves this'. I have never had any sense of him communicating with me, but a very odd thing did happen a few months after he died.

I happened to be walking past his house which had been sold and was then rented to a middle aged couple who were on that day working in the front garden. We got chatting and I said that my father had previously lived there.
They looked at each other and went very quiet. I asked if something was wrong. They hummed and hahed and then explained that they had just given notice to leave because the house had a 'bad feeling' and they had been woken several times at night by the sense of someone sitting on the bed and sighing heavily. Also they had both had the peculiar sense that this being/entity was very wet though they couldn't at all explain that.
They knew nothing about who had previously owned the house and had no way of knowing that my father had drowned himself.

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Julia --- that is a seriously amazing story ---- did that change your beliefs at all in regard to the possibility of god/gods/spiritual world etc etc

Julia said:

Also they had both had the peculiar sense that this being/entity was very wet though they couldn't at all explain that.
They knew nothing about who had previously owned the house and had no way of knowing that my father had drowned himself.

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One of the few things that would freak me out (only temporarily though) is to learn that there are spirits among us. So much for the privacy of our own homes .

http://weeklyworldnews.com/headlines/8850/how-to-talk-to-the-dead/

Read all about it - learn how to communicate with the dead.

oh.. one thought. I guess they didn't invent a time machine in the future, since no ones come back to tell us about it. Perhaps one might be an alien? http://weeklyworldnews.com/alien-alert/11451/11-hints-you-might-be-descended-from-aliens/

a wet ghost ... interesting idea, I wonder how they distinguished it from a dry one?

Cartman said:

h





Julia --- that is a seriously amazing story ---- did that change your beliefs at all in regard to the possibility of god/gods/spiritual world etc etc

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Hi Cartman, no, not really. But I've always been open to the concept of some spiritual (not in the religious sense) connection between living beings and don't find the idea of this continuing after death out of the question.

This has absolutely nothing to do with a God, however, and absolutely nothing to do with religion.

I remember years ago in one of these discussions, I think it was Dukey who wrote a post that made sense to me when he talked about pantheism

the idea that God is better understood as an abstract principle representing natural law, existence, and the Universe (the sum total of all that was, is and shall be), rather than as an anthropomorphic entity. With some exceptions, pantheism is non-theistic, but it is not atheistic[1].

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Something to do with a whole inter-connectiveness amongst nature, people, animals etc.

Isn't it difficult to put words to ideas that are only half formed in the first place!

I recall when my grandmother died, I had an overwhelming sense of her continued presence for some years. It may be that this was my subconscious way of feeling comfort at losing her. I don't know.
I would 'hear her voice' (not audibly of course) and feel her calmness when I was stressed.

Julia said:

Hi Cartman, no, not really. But I've always been open to the concept of some spiritual (not in the religious sense) connection between living beings and don't find the idea of this continuing after death out of the question.

This has absolutely nothing to do with a God, however, and absolutely nothing to do with religion.

I remember years ago in one of these discussions, I think it was Dukey who wrote a post that made sense to me when he talked about pantheism



Something to do with a whole inter-connectiveness amongst nature, people, animals etc.

Isn't it difficult to put words to ideas that are only half formed in the first place!

I recall when my grandmother died, I had an overwhelming sense of her continued presence for some years. It may be that this was my subconscious way of feeling comfort at losing her. I don't know.
I would 'hear her voice' (not audibly of course) and feel her calmness when I was stressed.

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I'd agree but like you, Julia find it difficult to put it in to words.

gg

gav said:

Just last week I lost a good friend, died in his sleep aged just 31 - cause unknown... I have spent a lot of time relfecting; wondering if he is in a better place, or if there is simply just a dead body in the ground. I went to a private Catholic school and always believed in God, but over the years I have become skeptical or rational, however you want to put it... These days I really don't know what I believe or think.

I find it strange that on his Facebook page so many people still leave comments, like he can read them from heaven or something. It is almost as if everyone who knew him believes in God and believes in heaven, which I found quite surprising. This got me thinking... maybe these people believe in God (during the time of a death of a loved one) as it helps them with their own grieving process, to think he is in a "better place". Because to think otherwise would be unbearable. Even I would love to think that he is in the gym at heaven, lifting weights as he loved so much...

His beautiful fiance was supposed to move from Canada to Australia this week to live with him, but instead is here for his funeral (which was on Monday). She leaves a very detailed and very touching message on his Facebook wall every morning. (which often gets the better of me if I read it)

I then thought what it would be like to lose those closest to me. If one of my parents or brothers died, I'd be devastated. I would mourn their loss and it would be very difficult for me to move on, but I think eventually I would be OK. I'd see things that would remind me of them and it would have an emotional affect on me, but I'd keep on living.

But if my partner died, there is simply no way I could go on. Life would mean nothing without her. And the thought of her not being in a better place waiting for me would be just too much to bare. I too would be like my friends fiance, and talk or write to my partner every day even though she would no longer be with me. Because to think anything else, well I'd simply lose any motivation to be alive.

It is strange that I can see this irrationality in another human/s, but at the same time knowing I'd do exactly the same in that situation...

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Gav it is always painful losing someone close to you, we have all been through it and it never gets easier. One of the ladies who I work with lost her sister in law two weeks ago, she was 30 and had a aneurysm and spent a week in hospital prior to her death. It's always so sad and I feel for all of you, his family and friends. I think it always helps to think about them and remember the good times. It takes time to heal.

I have had a friend murdered when we were teenagers under extremely tragic circumstances and a brother in law who I just loved die young under tragic circumstances and it took me a long long time to come to terms with it and I often think of both of them. It's always so heartbreaking when they are young. If they are old you console yourself that they have had their life and all good things come to an end. When my Dad died I found it much easier and we celebrated his life rather than mourn his death as he had fought and overcome so much illness during his last years of life.

Hope time helps you all to cope and you gather support from each other and others who knew him well. Good luck. Harleyquin

Julia said:

I've always been open to the concept of some spiritual (not in the religious sense) connection between living beings and don't find the idea of this continuing after death out of the question.

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yes we can't really rule any thing out as a possibility until we walk through that door eh! --

what ever dimension god exists in i'm pretty sure he'd agree religion is giving him a bad name! (no disrespect intended to religious folk -- i have a very good working relationship with god, just not in the traditional sense)

Thanks to all those who offered kind words. And thanks to those who shared their own personal stories too. Unfortunately too many people that I've known have died young...