Is there a GOD?

[greggy]

Yes, being a Catholic. I do believe in God. But I also believe that people have the right to believe in whatever they want.

 

[wayneL]

So you would say that believing with certainty that god does exist is equally as silly as believing with certainty that god doesn't exist?

I think this is a problem in these discussions. People either are mostly either all in or all out.

You are either with a religion and all else are going to hell (including those other pesky religions ) or you believe the case set forth by Dawkins et al.

What about somewhere in the middle, somewhere along Dukey's Pantheism...or indeed some other concept....

Our concept of God is effectively a meme to use the tem originally coined by Dawkins himself, (i.e. "essentiallly ideological and linguistic viruses" as quoted by Imajica) and all our concepts of God have been placed there by someone.

In our culture we have the judeo/christian meme, where God is some dude sitting on a cloud, tut tutting and putting black crosses against our name when we screw up. To be quite frank, this is where people have difficulty with God concepts and legitimately reject that model.

The shame I feel is that most of these folk default to the Darwin/Dawkins model (another meme IMO). This to me is throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Their right of course, but it often done without consideration or observation of anything else.

This creates a polarized debate where both sides only consider evidence to support there own particular meme infection.

I read a book called "Conversations with God" by Neil Donald Walsch. Now was he actually talking with God? $#@*ed if I know, but it certainly was thought provoking and goes a long way towards the pantheistic view (without actually being pantheistic if that makes sense). The religious hate the book with a passion. Those with open minds love it.

I haven't read the God Delusion, but to me Dawkins is extremely emotional about the topic from what I have seen of him. In other words he has an extreme emotional investment in the Darwinian model. His choice, but important to be aware of.

There can be no question that there was some sort of gradual unfolding of life on this planet, call it evolution, and I think the biblical account of creation cannot really be taken seriously if being rational. However look deeply at the world we live in and it is full of magic. It all obeys the physical laws of course, but the magic is in the so called "irreducible complexity" of it all for many of us.

Chuck in a few mysteries and things are not so cut and dried IMO

I'm just kinda waffling on here, but a few points to think about anyway.

Cheers

 

[Flying Fish]

I have nothing against religion as long as it affects noone else. But I must admit that any religion can get out of hand. As to a supreme being... well I guess every living thing is supreme in its own right, otherwise it would not exist
Perhaps god is the planet that we live and solely rely.

 

[2020hindsight]

thought for the day
If an a-theist doesn't believe in any god
and a mono-theist believes in one god
then do they call someone who belives in two gods ... maybe

a toothiest ?

 

[Kauri]

My dog believes that I am God.... (My wife doesn't )

 

[tech/a]

Is it possible that Man hasnt yet evolved to the point where he can investigate thouroughly the very question he seems "Hell bent" on answering.

As such there are polarised views. Niether fully supported by available evidence,often creating more questions than answers.
Bought about by our own limitations and current understandings.

Much has changed in the evolution of man both in the physical and the Psycological. While I see religion much the same as many here---a man made convienience. God as the figure head (Or indeed excuse) of such convienience. (Incidently that convienience takes many forms).
I can also understand that we may well be a quirk of nature as individual as our singular existance,which could be just that.

But to then explain ALL of existance even that which we know let alone that which we dont---as simply massive occurences of Quirks,which we expect to be governed by those physical parameters which govern ourselves (The most obvious being time).I find a hard pill to swallow.

That we as a conscious organism expect to know EVERYTHING,is to me simply a trait of the organism---certainly not the authority in all that we DONT KNOW and cant possibly explain due to our own lack of developement so far.

Just as the world didnt end up being flat---so the un explained may well be explained as simply---but only when we question and investigate in the right areas and are capable of UNDERSTANDING that which we are investigating.

But then again perhaps we do--perhaps it is as simple as Dawkins puts it!

Packer may well have been right.
"I've been there and let me tell you there IS NOTHING!"

QUESTION

Anyone who is 100% sure there is a God care to explain how they are this way?---Other than Faith.

 

[2020hindsight]

My dog believes that I am God.... (My wife doesn't )

my dog believes that I am "god"
my god believes that I am "dog"

my wife thinks I am partly "devil"
as long as - in the end - we've "lived"

 

[wotthe]

I believe in God ... and I know his son, too

 

[2020hindsight]

If there is a god, he's got a sense of humour :_
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-h8I3cqpgnA&mode=related&search= BBC Worldwide: Attenborough - Orchid Wasp Mimic

 

[3 veiws of a secret]

OMG its my birthday!

 

[$20shoes]

Many pose the question - if there is a God, why do we have wars? Why do we have famine and disease?
I will put to it to you that the very existence of such acts is the proof of God's existence. To go further, if you base divine supremacy on the notion that there is "one spirit", then there is no room for duality at all. That is, nothing in creation is less than one, or more than one - it just simply is the all-encompasing spirit. Anything less or more is imperfection, and we in either abstract or even personal/spiritual terms comprehend the perfection of the divine and will accept nothing less for our Master.
Now, if all in spiritual creation is of perfect unity, we cannot be more than God, we cannot be less then God. ALL IS ONE, ONE IS ALL.
Therefore, our spirit chooses to experience God, because as one unified spirit it can KNOW but not EXPERIENCE the love of GOD.
Hence, the physicality of the human body is a way a soul can experience LOVE or GOD.
Now, for this to work we need concepts of relativity. So, now we have a dichotomy where everything is completely part of the all-encompassing whole but the spirit can expereince based on the relativity we have on earth.
That is, it is only with war that we can experience peace; it is only with hate that we can know love; it is only with atheism that we can know GOD; it is only without GOD that we can know GOD.
If the spirit has some means of controlling how it wants to experience GOD, then we have a very dynamic ever changing world in response to the experience we want of GOD. In this way, atheism is as valid as catholicism, is as valid as Islam in the eyes of God because the relativity of each is needed for the spirit to experience God and grow in love.
Without the comparison of one to another, then the world must have grown significantly spiritual as each spirit no longer needs such a volatile dynamic to understand God's love.
Our world is is a branching out of GOD to experience GOD - without us GOD is not GOD.
If there were no God, then it actually becomes difficult to explain the forces behind why we create turbulence, and inequality in everything we do.
Hmmm, kind of taken from concepts out of Donald Walshes book..and filtered through the eyes of me.

 

[Julia]

Many pose the question - if there is a God, why do we have wars? Why do we have famine and disease?
I will put to it to you that the very existence of such acts is the proof of God's existence. To go further, if you base divine supremacy on the notion that there is "one spirit", then there is no room for duality at all. That is, nothing in creation is less than one, or more than one - it just simply is the all-encompasing spirit. Anything less or more is imperfection, and we in either abstract or even personal/spiritual terms comprehend the perfection of the divine and will accept nothing less for our Master.
Now, if all in spiritual creation is of perfect unity, we cannot be more than God, we cannot be less then God. ALL IS ONE, ONE IS ALL.
Therefore, our spirit chooses to experience God, because as one unified spirit it can KNOW but not EXPERIENCE the love of GOD.
Hence, the physicality of the human body is a way a soul can experience LOVE or GOD.
Now, for this to work we need concepts of relativity. So, now we have a dichotomy where everything is completely part of the all-encompassing whole but the spirit can expereince based on the relativity we have on earth.
That is, it is only with war that we can experience peace; it is only with hate that we can know love; it is only with atheism that we can know GOD; it is only without GOD that we can know GOD.
If the spirit has some means of controlling how it wants to experience GOD, then we have a very dynamic ever changing world in response to the experience we want of GOD. In this way, atheism is as valid as catholicism, is as valid as Islam in the eyes of God because the relativity of each is needed for the spirit to experience God and grow in love.
Without the comparison of one to another, then the world must have grown significantly spiritual as each spirit no longer needs such a volatile dynamic to understand God's love.
Our world is is a branching out of GOD to experience GOD - without us GOD is not GOD.
If there were no God, then it actually becomes difficult to explain the forces behind why we create turbulence, and inequality in everything we do.
Hmmm, kind of taken from concepts out of Donald Walshes book..and filtered through the eyes of me.

I don't wish to be offensive, but I've read through your post three times and have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Could you translate all this into a more simple answer to Tech's question if possible?

 

[Julia]

What amazes me is that all these books were written hundreds of years ago, by people who had absolutley no idea. Specifically no science at their disposal to answer the unexplained in their big scarey world. Of course they needed gods to get them through.
eg especially when people were dying of any type of viruses we now have antibiotics for or there was a tidal wave , earthquake, fire, famine, locusts , shooting stars , comets tornadoes etc etc

Constable, This is a great and really salient point. Knowledge and understanding go a long way towards eliminating the need for faith, I guess.

 

[Julia]

I think this is a problem in these discussions. People either are mostly either all in or all out.

You are either with a religion and all else are going to hell (including those other pesky religions ) or you believe the case set forth by Dawkins et al.

What about somewhere in the middle, somewhere along Dukey's Pantheism...or indeed some other concept....

Our concept of God is effectively a meme to use the tem originally coined by Dawkins himself, (i.e. "essentiallly ideological and linguistic viruses" as quoted by Imajica) and all our concepts of God have been placed there by someone.

In our culture we have the judeo/christian meme, where God is some dude sitting on a cloud, tut tutting and putting black crosses against our name when we screw up. To be quite frank, this is where people have difficulty with God concepts and legitimately reject that model.

The shame I feel is that most of these folk default to the Darwin/Dawkins model (another meme IMO). This to me is throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Their right of course, but it often done without consideration or observation of anything else.

This creates a polarized debate where both sides only consider evidence to support there own particular meme infection.

I read a book called "Conversations with God" by Neil Donald Walsch. Now was he actually talking with God? $#@*ed if I know, but it certainly was thought provoking and goes a long way towards the pantheistic view (without actually being pantheistic if that makes sense). The religious hate the book with a passion. Those with open minds love it.

I haven't read the God Delusion, but to me Dawkins is extremely emotional about the topic from what I have seen of him. In other words he has an extreme emotional investment in the Darwinian model. His choice, but important to be aware of.

There can be no question that there was some sort of gradual unfolding of life on this planet, call it evolution, and I think the biblical account of creation cannot really be taken seriously if being rational. However look deeply at the world we live in and it is full of magic. It all obeys the physical laws of course, but the magic is in the so called "irreducible complexity" of it all for many of us.

Chuck in a few mysteries and things are not so cut and dried IMO

I'm just kinda waffling on here, but a few points to think about anyway.

Cheers

There are some really great posts on this thread but this from Wayne says it all for me. Doesn't seem like waffle to me. Thanks, Wayne.

 

[$20shoes]

Haha Julia, I'm not even sure it makes sense to me...lol

My premise of God is based on some concepts you must take as given to accept my stance -

i) There is a spiritual presence that is perfect. This is important - if anything falls outside of God as perfect then he is no longer perfect. Stay with me - if, for instance we take Catholicism;s view that Hell is somehow not of God then there is a duality present - that is, there is something in the universe that is not God. Hence, God cannot be perfect since there is something that exists without his presence. Therefore, my concept is EVERYTHING is GOD. I mean everything.
ii) If EVERYTHING is GOD, how does GOD distinguish himself from GOD. How does GOD experience the LOVE that is his very essence.
iii) To answer point two, his spirit has to experience GOD through a process of relativity. This is the dichotomy - there is nothing that is not GOD. But the Earth/humans give GOD a way of knowing himself through the relativity he has set up for us.
So, Julia when you have a losing trade, you are in communication with God saying ah, that is a pretty crummy feeling. So, NOW I know that a winning trade feels so much better.
And you see that this concept could manifest into ad infinitum areas and indeed intersect with everyone else to create something akin to a mass love-in of GOD loving GOD.

Any clearer?

 

[2020hindsight]

Haha Julia, I'm not even sure it makes sense to me...lol
...ii) If EVERYTHING is GOD, how does GOD distinguish himself from GOD. How does GOD experience the LOVE that is his very essence.
iii) To answer point two, his spirit has to experience GOD through a process of relativity. This is the dichotomy - there is nothing that is not GOD. But the Earth/humans give GOD a way of knowing himself through the relativity he has set up for us. ....

And you see that this concept could manifest into ad infinitum areas and indeed intersect with everyone else to create something akin to a mass love-in of GOD loving GOD. Any clearer?

$20shoes, ahh so THAT's what you meant !! (I had to read it a few times as well , lol) You're way over my head m8, but here are some guesses. ..

I thought when you said :-

Now, if all in spiritual creation is of perfect unity, we cannot be more than God, we cannot be less then God. ALL IS ONE, ONE IS ALL.
Therefore, our spirit chooses to experience God, because as one unified spirit it can KNOW but not EXPERIENCE the love of GOD.

I thought you'd had a brilliant batch of potatoes go through your still , and having drunk your spiritual creations was like experiencing GOD!!

When you say "There is nothing that is not God" , you reminded me of the definition of the agnostic (oops), as - someone who goes to see the Wallabies play the Allblacks, and who doesn't care who wins. BTW I know something that is definitely not God - it's a bottle of apricot schnapps I found under the house the other day - blow the top of your head off!.

How does God experience love? - well I guess when you're invisible, you can get away with all sorts of mischief.

and "All is one , one is all" sound a bit like a motto for the Mighty Ducks .

LOL - but interesting thought patterns . PS are you SURE you're not GOD yourself? At least a close relative anyways

 

[Wysiwyg]

Hi shoes ,good input . I think that truth with this question is hard to define.Evidence and interpretation is in the eye of the beholder for me.With that said someone may have already come up with the truth!Since records of universal history are limited from a chronological point of view, how things came about is still open to interpretation of information.

Apparently there is a record of all events,knowledge and life experiences called the Akashic records.These records are not in word form but on an esoteric level can be accessed by anyone.To me this is hard to understand.Once again human thought created this concept but since written/spoken words are an interpretation thing, I like the idea and feel it has some possibility.I also like the meme (sounds a bit selfish that word) idea.It is another phenomenon of mind that I see clearly.

Keep em` coming.

 

[Bobby]

I've seen things that no god would or could allow.

There is no god, but if there were what a pathetic grub! Seen the sufferings Your god has been succour in

Bobby.

 

[retroaugogo]

O taste and see that the Lord is good- Psalm 34:8

All a matter of experience isn't it?
Just because you haven't experienced doesn't mean others haven't.


Here's a parable fit for a trader.


Matt 13:45,46 "Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a man who is a merchant seeking fine pearls, who having found one pearl of great price, he went and sold all that he had, and bought it."

 

[tech/a]

I see mention of spirit.
Mentioned in every religion.

Yet there has never EVER been proof that spirit of anything actually exists.
Spirit is again a manifestation of man to explain purpose of existance.

The thought that we actually die with no further life in ANY form other than those years we had in human form is impossible for most to handle.
That we came about as a quirk of nature and leave just the same rather than a part of a devine plan.

I've not been able to find a shred of evidence other than "Faith" that indicates any different.