Is Shorten PM material?

SirRumpole · 15 January 2017

noco said:
If Turnbull told the people that he would tear up the Paris Climate change agreement, stop the immigration of Muslims and take a firm hand with them to integrate, accept out laws and out way of life or leave Australia, ban the Burka and stop this renewable energy madness and clean up retired MPS entitlements and perks , his popularity would rocket over night.

That's your opinion. I probably agree as far as Muslim immigration goes and certainly agree about perks, but climate change is real and we need to do something about it. Renewable energy in the form of solar PV has taken a lot of demand out of the system and people should be encouraged to take it up further. We should probably replace or modernise some of the old generator plants, but it doesn't necessarily have to be coal. Solar thermal would be ideal, mixed with combined cycle gas and hydro.

Trouble is Turnbull will never do this because he is a prisoner of the Right of his party with links to donations by coal companies.

If Turnbull moved to ban political donations by organisations, both business and unions he would increase his popularity massively. Sadly I don't think he will.

Joe Blow · 15 January 2017

noco said:
Joe, I would like to see you intervene at lot more.

Of all the responsibilities I have as the administrator of ASF there is none I dislike more than intervening in political threads. I've moderated rampers on innumerable stock threads but I've never been accused of being anti-BHP because I moderated a ramp on the BHP thread. But politics is like religion to many. If I moderate a pro-Israel post I'm anti-Israel. If I moderate a post by a Labor party supporter I'm a right winger trying to suppress leftist views on ASF. So you can see my dilemma.

My dream, and it's a simple dream, is a forum where everyone respects each others opinions even if they don't agree with them. Where those at loggerheads over a political dispute don't insult each other but "agree to disagree" after respectfully presenting their differing views. Where discussion participants self-moderate rather than needing to be moderated. Oh, what a wonderful dream that is.

I'll intervene if I really have to of course, but I'd really prefer it if people could just get along. Life's too short to get all worked up about political differences. We live in one of the wealthiest countries in the world with one of the highest standards of living. It pains me to see people insulting each other because of disagreements over the management of human affairs. It so easy to choose to take the high road, and so much better for the ASF community overall.

barney · 15 January 2017

Joe Blow said:
My dream, and it's a simple dream, is a forum where everyone respects each others opinions even if they don't agree with them.

Never even been to this thread before but given my current state of mind ... your comment is a breath of fresh air Joe!!

moXJO · 15 January 2017

SirRumpole said:
Yes, a very intelligent post. Would you care to tell us why you think Shorten sucks ?

That one might of flown overhead

SirRumpole · 15 January 2017

moXJO said:
That one might of flown overhead

I appreciated the sarcasm, but wanted to give you the opportunity to expand on it.

PZ99 · 15 January 2017

Joe Blow said:
It's always a shame when these political threads are reduced to tit-for-tat personal attacks and accusations of trolling. It's been said many times in many ways: play the ball, not the man; attack the argument, not the person. Debate the issues all you like, but please don't make ad hominem attacks on others. Let's keep the discussion as constructive as possible.

That works for me.

I've got some relevant articles which I'll post during the week (after searching this thread to avoid doubling up) to generate some decent depth in discussions about party policy and leadership that escaped recent mainstream media because I'm curious as to what sort of feedback they'll provide.

Meanwhile, I'll pinch this from Mr Pickering...
You notice how Keating is leaning to the right and has BS on his left

noco · 15 January 2017

DB008 said:
Really?

This is the very good interview between Bill Shorten and Davi Speers.

Tisme · 16 January 2017

Joe Blow said:
Of all the responsibilities I have as the administrator of ASF there is none I dislike more than intervening in political threads.

" A lot has been said about politics, some complimentary, but most of it accurate" - Eric Idle

SirRumpole · 16 January 2017

Joe Blow said:
Of all the responsibilities I have as the administrator of ASF there is none I dislike more than intervening in political threads.

Quite right and you shouldn't have to. This is a respectable forum not Facebook. Some people try to pick fights, others respond. I think the responders (myself included) sometimes ignore the first rule of Internet blogging, DON'T FEED THE TROLLS.

I will try as much as I can to stick to that rule in future.

Tisme · 16 January 2017

SirRumpole said:
Quite right and you shouldn't have to. This is a respectable forum not Facebook. Some people try to pick fights, others respond. I think the responders (myself included) sometimes ignore the first rule of Internet blogging, DON'T FEED THE TROLLS.

I will try as much as I can to stick to that rule in future.

I don't really know why the thread needed Admin's intervention.... there are plenty of recent, albeit egregious posts by members stating they never get angry ... so why the fuss ? (he says with a wry smirk and walks away gingerly lol).

You don't need to change your habits Sir knight, many great orators like e.g. Winston Churchill, Disraeli, Whitlam, Keating, etc made great mileage out of baiting and feeding their enemy trolls.

noco · 16 January 2017

Tisme said:
I don't really know why the thread needed Admin's intervention.... there are plenty of recent, albeit egregious posts by members stating they never get angry ... so why the fuss ? (he says with a wry smirk and walks away gingerly lol).

.

You certainly like to have your dig in a very subtle way Tisme, but we all know who you are referring to and this is one of the things Joe Blow is trying to stamp out...Suggest you change your ways instead of provoking.

Plenty of albeit shocking and remarkable post by members stating they never get angry......As you well know, I am one who does not get angry so your pertinent remarks are well and truly targeted at me......You don't have to gloss it over.

Now you did mention members plural....Who are the others who do not get angry..I would like to meet them as we are one of a kind.

Joe Blow is doing his best to cleanse this type of diatribe from the ASF and get back to sensible debating without the personal attacks on one's character.

I repeat my self again.

Confucius says.

"When anger rises think of the consequences".

Tisme · 16 January 2017

noco said:
You certainly like to have your dig in a very subtle way Tisme, but we all know who you are referring to and this is one of the things Joe Blow is trying to stamp out...Suggest you change your ways instead of provoking.

Plenty of albeit shocking and remarkable post by members stating they never get angry......As you well know, I am one who does not get angry so your pertinent remarks are well and truly targeted at me......You don't have to gloss it over.

Now you did mention members plural....Who are the others who do not get angry..I would like to meet them as we are one of a kind.

Joe Blow is doing his best to cleanse this type of diatribe from the ASF and get back to sensible debating without the personal attacks on one's character.

I repeat my self again.

Confucius says.

"When anger rises think of the consequences".

So you're not angry then? Consequently those personal insults you hand out now and again; they are deliberate dishes served cold I'm supposing, so therefore trolling for effect?

I haven't used the search facility, but maybe you can wildcard "angry" and see what brethren come up.

noco · 16 January 2017

Tisme said:
So you're not angry then? Consequently those personal insults you hand out now and again; they are deliberate dishes served cold I'm supposing, so therefore trolling for effect?

I haven't used the search facility, but maybe you can wildcard "angry" and see what brethren come up.

Look Tisme don't start this stuff again.....That is now all in the past......Joe Blow has brought many of us into line and some of us are trying very hard to fulfill his wishes including me.

You seem hell bent on breaking that convention with your continued provocation.

Now how about being a good chappie by doing the right thing by Joe Blow's wishes and that is no more trolling, character assassination, intimidation or ridicule of other ASF members....

Tisme · 16 January 2017

noco said:
Look Tisme don't start this stuff again.....That is now all in the past......Joe Blow has brought many of us into line and some of us are trying very hard to fulfill his wishes including me.

You seem hell bent on breaking that convention with your continued provocation.

Now how about being a good chappie by doing the right thing by Joe Blow's wishes and that is no more trolling, character assassination, intimidation or ridicule of other ASF members....

I don't see I'm contravening any rules?

Rumpole has made a affirmation of self control (goodness knows he needs it!) when dealing with trolls and it seems you are attempting some kind of redemptive efforts and I applaud that. Your sparring partner of the recent past also seems to have backed off. luutzu continues to add entertaining fractured fact into his historical soup... the world is in a good place.

Insofar as my "stuff" posts, well I was always told to write as I speak. So wysiwyg on that. How you or others handle that is probably a measure of your envy and open mindedness to the possibility I know a thing or three and I'm sure with some judicious revision of my posts you will come to realise how infallible I am with my crystal ball and all things important.... it's a gift . LOL

noco · 16 January 2017

Tisme said:
I don't see I'm contravening any rules?

Rumpole has made a affirmation of self control (goodness knows he needs it!) when dealing with trolls and it seems you are attempting some kind of redemptive efforts and I applaud that. Your sparring partner of the recent past also seems to have backed off. luutzu continues to add entertaining fractured fact into his historical soup... the world is in a good place.

Insofar as my "stuff" posts, well I was always told to write as I speak. So wysiwyg on that. How you or others handle that is probably a measure of your envy and open mindedness to the possibility I know a thing or three and I'm sure with some judicious revision of my posts you will come to realise how infallible I am with my crystal ball and all things important.... it's a gift . LOL

I say to you again.....Just do the right thing by ASF and its members and I will leave it at that.....

SirRumpole · 16 January 2017

Good to see Shorten making a stand on political donations.

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten says it is crucial to explore the options for a federal anti-corruption watchdog as part of reforms around parliamentary expenditure.

Key points:

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten says greater transparency is needed for political donations as well as parliamentarians' entitlements

"Reputation of politics" has been damaged by recent coverage, he says

Senator Nick Xenophon says current rules were inadequate

Liberal MP Sussan Ley resigned from Cabinet last week amid an ongoing investigation into her travel claims, which included billing taxpayers to attend two New Year's Eve events hosted by a prominent Queensland businesswoman and donor.

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull announced a new compliance body to oversee parliamentary expenses following her resignation, which Mr Shorten has given in-principle support to.

But the Opposition Leader said reform needed to go further and examine both the parliamentarians' entitlements and political donations systems.

"For me, reform doesn't just stop at parliamentarians' expenses," he said.

"It must include greater transparency [and] greater accountability on political donations.

"No discussion about electoral reform and rebuilding the confidence of Australians in the political process can take place without having an open and honest discussion about a federal ICAC."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-...must-go-further-than-expenses-shorten/8184930

noco · 16 January 2017

SirRumpole said:
Good to see Shorten making a stand on political donations.

Will Bill Shorten include union donations to the Labor Party or will they be exempt?

Both Shorten and Turnbull have jumped on Pauline Hansons's band wagon to stop these rorts of politicians expenses, perks and political donations.

SirRumpole · 16 January 2017

noco said:
Will Bill Shorten include union donations to the Labor Party or will they be exempt?

I'm sure Shorten is well aware that union donations will be raised in the debate, which shows a bit of guts to keep the issue in the public eye.

noco · 16 January 2017

SirRumpole said:
I'm sure Shorten is well aware that union donations will be raised in the debate, which shows a bit of guts to keep the issue in the public eye.

I guess time will tell.

Don't forget the unions control the Labor Party.

PZ99 · 16 January 2017

Joe, I wanted to know if it is possible to add a (yes/no) poll to this thread and the Turnbull thread? This thread is quite old but things have changed and I reckon it would produce some interesting results. Cheers.

Is Shorten PM material?