Is Shorten PM material?

noco · 12 January 2017

PZ99 said:
No. You are a commentator that is stating unproven opinion as fact. That rape case was done to death the moment Shorten became leader 3 years ago.

Maybe he didn't.

Mate, how many times do I have to tell you before it sinks in, I am not the commentator, I am only the messenger.
I also understand you will go out of your way to protect your beloved Labor left wing Fabian Socialist.

PZ99 · 12 January 2017

noco said:
Mate, how many times do I have to tell you before it sinks in, I am not the commentator, I am only the messenger.
I also understand you will go out of your way to protect your beloved Labor left wing Fabian Socialist.

Then your understanding has its limits. A messenger receives a message and passes it on. You are simply copying and pasting a 6 month old article of someone else's opinion. Why would you sit on a "message" for 6 months?

You also appear to have put yourself in a climate of hysteria again

Garpal Gumnut · 12 January 2017

My contacts in Sussex St. tell me that Albo is still waiting in the wings if a tram runs over Bill Shorten. The latter is safe for the moment.

SirRumpole · 12 January 2017

Garpal Gumnut said:
My contacts in Sussex St. tell me that Albo is still waiting in the wings if a tram runs over Bill Shorten. The latter is safe for the moment.

Albo had better be ready. The last thing we want is Tanya. Even though she does give a good interview we would be flooded with refugees and gay adoption clinics if she gets in.

noco · 12 January 2017

PZ99 said:
Then your understanding has its limits. A messenger receives a message and passes it on. You are simply copying and pasting a 6 month old article of someone else's opinion. Why would you sit on a "message" for 6 months?

You also appear to have put yourself in a climate of hysteria again

I did not sit on it for 6 months and that is where you are wrong.

If it is good enough for you Fabians to keep hounded the likes of Susan Ley and Brownwyn Bishop, then it is good enough to bring Bill Shorten's dirty deals to the surface.....You can't have it all your own way.....The sooner you get that into your head the better understanding you will have....There is rort going on, on both sides of politics and all should be brought to justice.

VOTE 1 PAULINE HANSON who has promised to do something about it.

PZ99 · 12 January 2017

noco said:
I did not sit on it for 6 months and that is where you are wrong.

So what did you do with it? Make a paper airplane?

noco said:
If it is good enough for you Fabians to keep hounded the likes of Susan Ley and Brownwyn Bishop

That is where you are wrong. I made no comment about Sussan Ley and Bronwyn Bishop.

noco said:
, then it is good enough to bring Bill Shorten's dirty deals to the surface.....You can't have it all your own way

Sounds like a load of boo-hoo to me.

noco said:
.....The sooner you get that into your head the better understanding you will have....

More boo-hoo.

noco said:
There is rort going on, on both sides of politics and all should be brought to justice.

You are clearly trying to deflect everyone away from your earlier myopically right wing elitist comments that Bill Shorten was some kind of rapo dude.

noco said:
VOTE 1 PAULINE HANSON who has promised to do something about it.

And that's where you've destroyed all your credibility. Pauline Hanson was falsely accused of rorting the electoral system and did bird for it. Your accusations about Shorten are just as false unless you have proof and clearly you don't.

noco · 12 January 2017

PZ99 said:
So what did you do with it? Make a paper airplane?

That is where you are wrong. I made no comment about Susan Ley and Brownwyn Bishop.

Sounds like a load of boo-hoo to me.

More boo-hoo.

You are clearly trying to deflect everyone away from your earlier myopically right wing elitist comments that Bill Shorten was some kind of rapo dude.

And that's where you've destroyed all your credibility. Pauline Hanson was falsely accused of rorting the electoral system and did bird for it. Your accusations about Shorten are just as false.

And Pauline Hanson was acquitted or have you got a short memory?..Falsely accused...She only served 11 weeks.

Boo Hoo rhetoric is one which would be expected from a Fabian supporter...How weak and non entertaining.....Time to grow up.

Where did I accuse you of making comments about Ley and Bishop?.....I was speaking in general terms.....Read it again and again until you absorb what it means.

And that's where you've destroyed all your credibility....Once again a simple term by a Fabian to discredt a worthy opponent.....Play the ball and not the man FFS.

PZ99 · 12 January 2017

noco said:
And Pauline Hanson was acquitted or have you got a short memory?..Falsely accused...She only served 11 weeks.

Pity you can't read. I said she was falsely accused. You've just said the same thing I did.

noco said:
Boo Hoo rhetoric is one which would be expected from a Fabian supporter...How weak and non entertaining.....Time to grow up.

More boo-hoo.

noco said:
Where did I accuse you of making comments about Ley and Bishop?.....I was speaking in general terms

Bull you did. Read your previous boo hoo comments - if you can.
"you Fabians" "You can't have it all your own way" "If it is good enough for you Fabians to keep hounded the likes of Susan Ley and Brownwyn Bishop"

noco said:
And that's where you've destroyed all your credibility....Once again a simple term by a Fabian to discredt a worthy opponent.....Play the ball and not the man FFS.

I don't play the man - I have a different opinion to you. But you are too childish to tag yourself as a worthy opponent and that's why you get discredited as such. You can start by ditching the "Fabian" tag with the majority of your replies because it says nothing about me and everything about your rather strange paranoia.

I'm more than happy for you to hypocritically call me an ex AFS troll with a one track left wing socialistic mind and fabian values (your words) but as you've never met me I'd say you have NFI.

My point is... you are posting what could best be described as a false allegation disguised as fact that Bill Shorten was a rapist. I'm interested in the claim because I think it's BS. However if you can prove your little fairytale then feel free to post it here. Otherwise, why bother wasting your time and mine?

noco · 12 January 2017

PZ99 said:
Pity you can't read. I said she was falsely accused. You've just said the same thing I did.

More boo-hoo.

Bull you did. Read your previous boo hoo comments - if you can.
"you Fabians" "You can't have it all your own way" "If it is good enough for you Fabians to keep hounded the likes of Susan Ley and Brownwyn Bishop"

I don't play the man - I have a different opinion to you. But you are too childish to tag yourself as a worthy opponent and that's why you get discredited as such. You can start by ditching the "Fabian" tag with the majority of your replies because it says nothing about me and everything about your rather strange paranoia.

I'm more than happy for you to hypocritically call me an ex AFS troll with a one track left wing socialistic mind and fabian values (your words) but as you've never met me I'd say you have NFI.

My point is... you are posting what could best be described as a false allegation disguised as fact that Bill Shorten was a rapist. I'm interested in the claim because I think it's BS. However if you can prove your little fairytale then feel free to post it here. Otherwise, why bother wasting your time and mine?

Once again my dear friend the mention of Fabians was a general term to describe the Green/Labor left wing socialists and I will keep on pounding that term so as many people as possible realize what is going on in the Labor Party.

Do you disagree with me that Bill Shorten is a Fabian (Communist)

Here is some more for you to digest about Bill Shorten with his nose in the trough.

Shorten outspent Turnbull three to one on family travel during election

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten with his family. Picture: Kym Smith
The Australian12:00AM January 12, 2017
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94
RACHEL BAXENDALE
ReporterCanberra
@rachelbaxendale

Taxpayers paid more for Bill Shorten’s family to travel with him in the lead-up to last year’s election than they spent on the family travel of Malcolm Turnbull and Tony Abbott in the last three elections combined.

The Opposition Leader’s claim of $51,531 for the six months to June 2016 compares with $14,441 for the Prime Minister during the same period, $14,337 for Tony Abbott in the second half of 2010 and $11,080 for Abbott in the second half of 2010.

Kevin Rudd claimed $20,435 in the period surrounding the 2013 election, while Julia Gillard claimed $13,439 in the second half of 2010.

The Labor total of $89,405 compares with a Coalition spend of $39,858.

The analysis comes as government sources indicate Malcolm Turnbull could receive the findings of the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet’s investigation into sidelined Health Minister Sussan Ley’s travel claims as soon as tomorrow.

Ms Ley’s position is widely seen as untenable by Coalition colleagues, despite her claim when she stood aside on Monday that she expected to resume her ministerial duties.

The investigation into her travel claims was sparked by her impulse purchase of a $795,000 investment property on the Gold Coast during a taxpayer-funded trip.

It has since emerged that Ms Ley spent the same number of taxpayer-funded nights on the Gold Coast as she did in Perth, Adelaide and Hobart combined, and that she charged taxpayers $13,000 to travel in two charter planes along busy commercial routes.

The controversy over expense claims has also spread to several of Ms Ley’s cabinet colleagues, including Foreign Minister Julie Bishop, who charged taxpayers $2716 to attend the Portsea Polo for “official business”.

Finance Minister Mathias Cormann, whose department oversees politicians’ entitlements, claimed $3533 for airfares to attend the 2013 AFL Grand Final with his wife.

Peter Dutton, George Brandis and Mitch Fifield were also caught billing the taxpayer for travel associated with Malcolm Turnbull’s 2015 New Year’s Eve event.

Disgraced former Speaker Peter Slipper, who was prosecuted for charging the taxpayer for cabs to Canberra wineries, tweeted yesterday that others should get the same treatment he did.

“Every MP and senator should be subjected to the same forensic examination I was. I bet the results would be interesting,” Mr Slipper said.

A spokesman for Mr Shorten said all of his family travel claims were declared and undertaken within the rules.

Mr Shorten’s three children, Rupert, Georgette and Clementine — who were aged 15, 13 and seven during the campaign — are significantly younger than those of his counterparts, making it much more difficult for wife Chloe to join him without them.

Mr Abbott’s daughters Louise, Frances and Bridget were 24, 21 and 20 in 2013, and 21, 18 and 17 in 2010, while Mr Rudd’s children Jessica, Nicholas and Marcus were 29, 24 and 20 in 2013, and Mr Turnbull’s children Alex and Daisy are in their early 30s.

Prime ministers get access to a VIP plane and this privilege is extended to opposition leaders during election campaigns.

Shorten family bill triple PM’s
Taxpayers paid more for Bill Shorten’s family to travel with him in the lead-up to last year’s election than they spent on the family travel of Malcolm Turnbull and Tony Abbott in the last three elections combined.
at.theaustralian.com.au

PZ99 · 12 January 2017

noco said:
Once again my dear friend the mention of Fabians was a general term to describe the Green/Labor left wing socialists and I will keep on pounding that term so as many people as possible realize what is going on in the Labor Party.

That's fine - as long as you don't use it to describe me yeah?

noco said:
Do you disagree with me that Bill Shorten is a Fabian (Communist)

Partly. He's a member of that obscure group but is a right winger leading a centre-left party. That's why his personal ratings are crap. Turnbull has similar issues. Maybe they could swap places

noco said:
Here is some more for you to digest about Bill Shorten with his nose in the trough.
Shorten outspent Turnbull three to one on family travel during election

I reckon just about everyone outspent Turnbull on family travel.

Good article... if a little short on detail. It doesn't show a breakdown of family time versus work expenses other than a claim that everything was done by the rules. Everything should be made public by all pollies. We pay for it.

noco · 12 January 2017

PZ99 said:
Partly. He's a member of that obscure group but is a right winger leading a centre-left party. That's why his personal ratings are crap. Turnbull has similar issues. Maybe they could swap places
How can Shorten only be partly a Fabian?....He is a full blown member of the Fabians (Marxist)

Good article... if a little short on detail. It doesn't show a breakdown of family time versus work expenses other than a claim that everything was done by the rules. Everything should be made public by all pollies. We pay for it.

How can Shorten only be partly Fabian?.......He is a full blown member of the Fabians .(Marxist)

See the list below which posted a couple of weeks ago.

http://takebackaustralia.aussieblogs.com.au/2011/01/08/fabian-society-and-the-alp/

noco · 12 January 2017

PZ99 said:
That's fine - as long as you don't use it to describe me yeah?

Partly. He's a member of that obscure group but is a right winger leading a centre-left party. That's why his personal ratings are crap. Turnbull has similar issues. Maybe they could swap places

I reckon just about everyone outspent Turnbull on family travel.

Good article... if a little short on detail. It doesn't show a breakdown of family time versus work expenses other than a claim that everything was done by the rules. Everything should be made public by all pollies. We pay for it.

How can he only be a partly Fabian (Marxist)?

He is a full blown Fabian as per the list below.

http://takebackaustralia.aussieblogs.com.au/2011/01/08/fabian-society-and-the-alp/

PZ99 · 12 January 2017

noco said:
How can he only be a partly Fabian (Marxist)?

He is a full blown Fabian as per the list below.

http://takebackaustralia.aussieblogs.com.au/2011/01/08/fabian-society-and-the-alp/

Easy. Welcome to the 21st century where Shorten, like all other aspirant leaders will shift their position solely to gain political mileage

Paul Keating is on that list but is a neo-liberalist exemplified by floating the dollar, reduction of tariffs, reducing union power, proposing a GST (then opposing it - see my first sentence), and privatising CBA amongst other "third way" polices. Not really what you'd call fabian values.

Bill Shorten is even further right than that. 3 examples. ETS is market based carbon pricing as opposed to Govt Tax (carbon tax). Their current asylum seeker policy is boat turn backs (the lefties hated that) and their IR laws are closer to Workchoices than any previous ALP policy.

If Shorten really is a fabian he's not a very good one. Along with Hawke/Keating he's about the most right wing Labor leader we've ever had and that's why he's not popular with the electorate.

The "u" went away from Labor decades ago. They are almost as Liberal as the Liberals.

overhang · 12 January 2017

noco said:
How can he only be a partly Fabian (Marxist)?

He is a full blown Fabian as per the list below.

http://takebackaustralia.aussieblogs.com.au/2011/01/08/fabian-society-and-the-alp/

You continue to use Fabian in a derogatory manner which I understand as you clearly have a fascist ideology. But I think most people both left and right of center would agree that society functions best with both capitalist and socialist elements, we need the capitalist economy to maximize productivity and efficiency and we need the socialist aspect to provide an adequate safety net for all. It's a delicate task finding a balance between the two economic systems and quite easy to extend too far in one direction but overall Australia does a good job overall of finding that balance.

noco · 12 January 2017

PZ99 said:
Easy. Welcome to the 21st century where Shorten, like all other aspirant leaders will shift their position solely to gain political mileage

Paul Keating is on that list but is a neo-liberalist exemplified by floating the dollar, reduction of tariffs, reducing union power, proposing a GST (then opposing it - see my first sentence), and privatising CBA amongst other "third way" polices. Not really what you'd call fabian values.

Bill Shorten is even further right than that. 3 examples. ETS is market based carbon pricing as opposed to Govt Tax (carbon tax). Their current asylum seeker policy is boat turn backs (the lefties hated that) and their IR laws are closer to Workchoices than any previous ALP policy.

If Shorten really is a fabian he's not a very good one. Along with Hawke/Keating he's about the most right wing Labor leader we've ever had and that's why he's not popular with the electorate.

The "u" went away from Labor decades ago. They are almost as Liberal as the Liberals.

You are either a Fabian or your are not a Fabian...There is no in between...Fabians are wolves in sheep's clothing...That is their motto...They keep chipping away with their socialist agenda as we have witnessed.

Do check out the link below which I have posted before to confirm what Fabians really stand for.

Labor almost Liberal as the Liberals???.......I would say Turnbull is more like the Green/Labor left wing socialist coalition.

http://www.restoreaustralia.org.au/fabians-and-pm-gillard/

PZ99 · 12 January 2017

noco said:
You are either a Fabian or your are not a Fabian...There is no in between...Fabians are wolves in sheep's clothing...That is their motto...They keep chipping away with their socialist agenda as we have witnessed.

Do check out the link below which I have posted before to confirm what Fabians really stand for.

Labor almost Liberal as the Liberals???.......I would say Turnbull is more like the Green/Labor left wing socialist coalition.

http://www.restoreaustralia.org.au/fabians-and-pm-gillard/

Link doesn't work for me. Maybe I'm blocked. LOL

If it's compulsory to take a choice of absolutes I'd say Shorten can't be fabianist - not with his current ideology. I describe him as a neo liberalist. Socialist websites regularly condemn Labor's polices. Shorten is a member of the Labor right.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_Right#Federal_Members_of_the_Labor_Right

Further reading:

A new "super-faction" that unites most of the Victorian Labor Right has been formed, boosting opposition leader Bill Shorten's factional clout and isolating a rump of MPs aligned with the shop assistants' union, including Deputy Premier James Merlino and federal power broker David Feeney.

The recent formation of the "Centre Unity" faction effectively hands control of the party's influential public office selection committee to a handful of power brokers, including Mr Shorten, his Right faction ally Senator Stephen Conroy and the Left's Senator Kim Carr under the terms of a "stability agreement".

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...luence-on-labor-party-machine-20150421-1mpqte

noco · 13 January 2017

PZ99 said:
Link doesn't work for me. Maybe I'm blocked. LOL

If it's compulsory to take a choice of absolutes I'd say Shorten can't be fabianist - not with his current ideology. I describe him as a neo liberalist. Socialist websites regularly condemn Labor's polices. Shorten is a member of the Labor right.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_Right#Federal_Members_of_the_Labor_Right

Further reading:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...luence-on-labor-party-machine-20150421-1mpqte

The Fabians and PM Gillard

Opinion, Politics

by
The Fabian Society logo shows plainly what the Fabians consider themselves to be

The Fabian Society logo shows plainly what the Fabians consider themselves to be

PM Gillard is a member of the Fabian Society in Australia. There is no denying this fact. She has stated it herself…and we know she never lies.

But what is the Fabian Society?

Over the past 120 years, Fabian Society members have been almost singularly responsible for creating Communism in Soviet Russia and Communist China, Fascism in Italy and Germany, and socialism generally throughout the world.

The Fabian Society is a British socialist organization whose purpose is to advance the principles of democratic socialism via gradualist and reformist, rather than revolutionary, means.

It is best known for its initial ground-breaking work beginning late in the 19th century and continuing up to World War I. The society laid many of the foundations of the Labor Party and subsequently affected the policies of states emerging from the decolonisation of the British Empire, especially India.

Today, the society functions primarily as a think tank and is one of 15 socialist societies affiliated with the Labor Party. Similar societies exist in Australia (the Australian Fabian Society), Canada (the Douglas-Coldwell Foundation and the now disbanded League for Social Reconstruction) and in New Zealand.

Since its foundation in 1884, the Fabian Society has been a home for some of the most important thinkers on the left. It has counted Rupert Brooke, Oscar Wilde, Emmeline Pankhurst, Ernest Bevin, Muhammad Ali Jinnah among its famous members.

Every UK Labor Prime Minister, from Ramsay MacDonald to Tony Blair, and Gordon Brown, has been a member of the Society. Today, well over 200 parliamentarians are members and the Fabian Society continues to be at the heart of the Labor movement.

There is no real difference between Fabianism and Leninist Communism. Both their goals are to impose collectivism. Communism sought to impose collectivism using overwhelming force. We have seen how that failed.

The Fabianists believe in achieving their aims by stealth. They were opposed to the violent revolutions in Russia and China. Instead, they prefer to infiltrate into positions of power and then go about implementing their socialist agenda step by step. They operate so stealthily and operate so slowly, chipping away at the very fabric of society little by little, that most people don’t even notice they have lost their freedom until it is too late. At the same time, the Fabianists are extremely skilled at manipulating public opinion using emotive causes that sound so attractive that most people miss the sinister purpose behind them.

http://www.restoreaustralia.org.au/fabians-and-pm-gillard/

SirRumpole · 13 January 2017

noco said:
The Fabians and PM Gillard

PM Gillard ? Have you been asleep for the last 4 years ?

If I quoted slabs from a Socialist newspaper you would have a go at me, so kindly take your Facist trash and shove it where the sun doesn't shine.

PZ99 · 13 January 2017

That article was obviously a biased opinion based on fear and sensationalism. But that's OK, most articles are. I bet that was written by Mike Holt > former QLD One Nation candidate > a far right wing party

The "reds under the bed" scare campaign died out 35 years ago. People have moved on.
Every Govt we've had since then was put there using the democratic process, as it should be.

noco · 13 January 2017

SirRumpole said:
PM Gillard ? Have you been asleep for the last 4 years ?

If I quoted slabs from a Socialist newspaper you would have a go at me, so kindly take your Facist trash and shove it where the sun doesn't shine.

Gillard was irrelevant in that link...The theme was the emphasis om Fabianism.

There is no real difference between Fabianism and Leninist Communism. Both their goals are to impose collectivism. Communism sought to impose collectivism using overwhelming force. We have seen how that failed.

Take your blinkers off Rumpy.

Is Shorten PM material?