Is Shorten PM material?

SirRumpole · 28 June 2016

No doubt that the LNP want to turn Medicare into a user pays health care system, and they will do it progressively if they get back in so that we will have a US style system where you only get what you can afford.

User pays is fine for discretionary spending, but for health care no one should decide who needs care apart from the patients and their doctors.

CanOz · 28 June 2016

SirRumpole said:
No doubt that the LNP want to turn Medicare into a user pays health care system, and they will do it progressively if they get back in so that we will have a US style system where you only get what you can afford.

User pays is fine for discretionary spending, but for health care no one should decide who needs care apart from the patients and their doctors.

Really? No doubt? You sound like Bill...

IF the LNP did that it would be the end of the LNP....elections are always just around the corner in Australia...there's no way that would stick, even with hardcore liberals.

SirRumpole · 28 June 2016

CanOz said:
Really? No doubt? You sound like Bill...

IF the LNP did that it would be the end of the LNP....elections are always just around the corner in Australia...there's no way that would stick, even with hardcore liberals.

So what is a $7 co-payment ? What is the end of bulk billing for pathology tests ?

You might be right, that could be the end of them.

noco · 28 June 2016

explod said:
I do not disagree but in very many other ways we can say similar about the libs. 40% (48billion) of benifits to business will go oveseas under libs. (university of technology NSW report) Not going to help tge corner store much.

Time to close ranks and join the Greens Noco. Democratic from the bottom up.

I think you are behind the times regarding tax free benefits going overseas...Joe Hockey has implemented ways through a G20 meeting to close that loop hole with international co-operation.

Join the Greens you say.....LMAO.....never in a million years plod.......The Greens are all Fabians (communists) and only believe in socialism which has been proven a failure....The Greens are "WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING" using the environment as a shadow for their hidden agenda.......If you prefer to live under a communist banner then move to a communist dominated country like North Korea, China or Cuba....There is no place for communism here in Australia.

Furthermore the Greens are in the decline and are going down down down.

Tisme · 28 June 2016

SirRumpole said:
No doubt that the LNP want to turn Medicare into a user pays health care system, and they will do it progressively if they get back in so that we will have a US style system where you only get what you can afford.

User pays is fine for discretionary spending, but for health care no one should decide who needs care apart from the patients and their doctors.

Both the Liberal and LNP constitution has a very large section devoted to medical services. It reads:

in which adequate medical services are within the reach of all;

SirRumpole · 28 June 2016

Ah yes, Constitutions.

Unlike the US I doubt if the LNP Constitution is legally enforceable or even read by MP's.

Might make an interesting question on Q&A.

"Mr Pyne, could you quote Section 50, Paragraph 3 of the Liberal Constitution ?"

explod · 28 June 2016

noco said:
I think you are behind the times regarding tax free benefits going overseas...Joe Hockey has implemented ways through a G20 meeting to close that loop hole with international co-operation.

Join the Greens you say.....LMAO.....never in a million years plod.......The Greens are all Fabians (communists) and only believe in socialism which has been proven a failure....The Greens are "WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING" using the environment as a shadow for their hidden agenda.......If you prefer to live under a communist banner then move to a communist dominated country like North Korea, China or Cuba....There is no place for communism here in Australia.

Furthermore the Greens are in the decline and are going down down down.

Sure you are on planet earth atm noco.

Over half our new members here at Bendigo of late were liberal voters last time.

And on the polls, and whilst working on pre-polling handing out, the Greens are certainly not on the decline. And commercial polling suggests the Greens will pick up two new lower house seats beside the one we have just in Victoria alone.

Anyhow when you have the sort of arrogang banging on of people like Scott Morrison on TV is it any wonder people are swiching.

noco · 28 June 2016

explod said:
Sure you are on planet earth atm noco.

Over half our new members here at Bendigo of late were liberal voters last time.

And on the polls, and whilst working on pre-polling handing out, the Greens are certainly not on the decline. And commercial polling suggests the Greens will pick up two new lower house seats beside the one we have just in Victoria alone.

Anyhow when you have the sort of arrogang banging on of people like Scott Morrison on TV is it any wonder people are swiching.

It is obvious those people whom you refer to are either very naive or do not know what the Greens stand for and are just swinging because they do not like the two major parties....I do hope they do a little research before finally deciding.

They will be out of the frying pan and into the fire.

explod · 28 June 2016

noco said:
It is obvious those people whom you refer to are either very naive or do not know what the Greens stand for and are just swinging because they do not like the two major parties....I do hope they do a little research before finally deciding.

They will be out of the frying pan and into the fire.

They are seeking a voice and change in political direction away from consumerism and back to productivity.

Its that simple but requires some solid input on a community level without private so called experts and thier commissions. An extension of the current community gardens for example would be one way.

Tisme · 29 June 2016

explod said:
They are seeking a voice and change in political direction away from consumerism and back to productivity.

Its that simple but requires some solid input on a community level without private so called experts and thier commissions. An extension of the current community gardens for example would be one way.

I'd like to see a return to some industrial and can-do productivity; some pride in our meat pies, kangaroos and Holden cars for example

Any chance Bill could broker an agreement with Ford and GM to stay?

SirRumpole · 29 June 2016

Tisme said:
I'd like to see a return to some industrial and can-do productivity; some pride in our meat pies, kangaroos and Holden cars for example

Any chance Bill could broker an agreement with Ford and GM to stay?

Americans make crap cars.

Better to do a deal with Mercedes , BMW or Toyota and get some quality stuff made here.

Knobby22 · 29 June 2016

Toyota would have probably stayed if we hadn't made it so hard for them.

Labor could have won this election but they have too many idiots running ther campaign. the Libs were in trouble till they pulled Tony Nutt in.

if they had of hired me I would have got them over the line:

Keep the taxes:- they were good ideas.
Promise to spend the taxes on infrastructure only:- that would swing a lot of votes.
Keep other costs to inflation as much as possible, Gonski - what a vote loser. They could have just rejigged the funding instead.
Find some minor savings -they have now done this but not till they told everyone they were going to increase the debt more than the Libs.

Seriously, they could have won this but they blew it. The trouble with Labor is the power of the education and health unions forcing them to spend, spend, spend. We are in debt guys.

Once it got close, it was a no brainer to vote Liberal. Who wants a hung Parliament with Labor, Greens and Lambie, and whoever else is needed. We would be back to stupid land.

Tisme · 29 June 2016

SirRumpole said:
Americans make crap cars.

Better to do a deal with Mercedes , BMW or Toyota and get some quality stuff made here.

At least we still have our home grown football to glorify .... until soccer and the hoodlums that come with it kill it off .... bl00dy foreigners!

SirRumpole · 29 June 2016

Knobby22 said:
Toyota would have probably stayed if we hadn't made it so hard for them.

Labor could have won this election but they have too many idiots running ther campaign. the Libs were in trouble till they pulled Tony Nutt in.

if they had of hired me I would have got them over the line:

Keep the taxes:- they were good ideas.
Promise to spend the taxes on infrastructure only:- that would swing a lot of votes.
Keep other costs to inflation as much as possible, Gonski - what a vote loser. They could have just rejigged the funding instead.
Find some minor savings -they have now done this but not till they told everyone they were going to increase the debt more than the Libs.

Seriously, they could have won this but they blew it. The trouble with Labor is the power of the education and health unions forcing them to spend, spend, spend. We are in debt guys.

Once it got close, it was a no brainer to vote Liberal. Who wants a hung Parliament with Labor, Greens and Lambie, and whoever else is needed. We would be back to stupid land.

Spending on services vs spending on corporates ?

Something is a no brainer.

No word from the Libs about how reliant their corporate tax policy is on overseas events, and how shaky their ROI is.

0.9% improvement in GNI after 20 years. Pathetic. Is that the best they can do ?

And keep allowing the tax lurks of negative gearing on all homes and capital gains discount which costs $7 billion a year.

Yes, we are in a deficit guys, but as long as the mates are ok, that's fine. We'll just slug the sick to make up for it.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...ments-company-tax-claims-20160529-gp6ika.html

Tisme · 29 June 2016

Knobby22 said:
Toyota would have probably stayed if we hadn't made it so hard for them.

They couldn't singularly support the supply chain

Knobby22 said:
Labor could have won this election but they have too many idiots running ther campaign. the Libs were in trouble till they pulled Tony Nutt in.

if they had of hired me I would have got them over the line:

Keep the taxes:- they were good ideas.
Promise to spend the taxes on infrastructure only:- that would swing a lot of votes.
Keep other costs to inflation as much as possible, Gonski - what a vote loser. They could have just rejigged the funding instead.
Find some minor savings -they have now done this but not till they told everyone they were going to increase the debt more than the Libs.

One of those WTF moments .... where the Labs once again don't realise:

trainspotter · 29 June 2016

I am not sure that spending to get yourself out of debt is the correct procedure in these tough economic times so I turned to Google for advice and this is what I got ....

74,500,000 results on how to PAY OFF debt and not one encourages you to spend more

Maybe Bill Shorten can call Debtmediators for some advice?

SirRumpole · 29 June 2016

trainspotter said:
74,500,000 results on how to PAY OFF debt and not one encourages you to spend more

Maybe Bill Shorten can call Debtmediators for some advice?

Depends on how you pay for your spending.

Not paying for negative gearing helps pay for it, and this is a structural reform that saves money every year.

I'm surprised that people who complain about Labor spending don't appear to support the negative gearing reforms, which Malcon himself called tax avoidance.

noco · 29 June 2016

Shorten keeps popping up with egg on his face with misquotes, lies and more damn lies...When will he ever learn.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...t/news-story/b7805b7aa87563eff817cd733f768a9b

A key theme of Bill Shorten’s address to the National Press Club was the importance of treating voters with respect.

Citing his town hall meetings since last September and throughout the campaign, the Opposition Leader said: “You treat people as smart, as engaged, as empowered decision-makers in their own lives.’’

Why then did he treat them like mugs by using a partial quote from Malcolm Turnbull and claiming it was a “gaffe that marked the end of the Prime Minister’s credibility’’?

According to Shorten, the Prime Minister had said: “What political parties say they will support and oppose at one time is not necessarily what they will do.”

Shorten claimed this as evidence that the Coalition’s credibility was shot. “Tony Abbott famously told us ‘don’t listen to what I say, get it in writing’. Malcolm Turnbull has simply said — don’t bother, it’s a lie.’’

The problem for Shorten is that, while Turnbull said it, it was only part of what he said. The full quote had a different meaning. After uttering the passage quoted by Shorten at the Press Club, Turnbull went on to say: “You have seen the Labor Party has opposed many measures of ours at which they have substantially supported or subsequently changed their position on. The best-known of those is obviously the SchoolKids Bonus, which they made an iconic issue and launched petitions and campaigns and said they were going to fight all the way to election day to restore it and then did a very quick backflip on that.’’

In other words, it was an attack on Labor rather than an attempt to gain the Coalition wriggle room to weasel out of promises.

Shorten’s “gotcha’’ that wasn’t tarnished an otherwise sensible summation of Labor’s platform ahead of Saturday’s election. Despite ALP ads backing Shorten’s misquote, the issue threatens to fan doubts about his credibility. He was already under fire for Labor’s “Mediscare’’ campaign which frightens voters but is dismissed by experts and attacked by Turnbull as the campaign’s “biggest lie’’.

His latest salvo didn’t last through the hour-long Press Club appearance. The ABC’s Sabra Lane read out the second part of Turnbull’s quote and challenged Shorten to stand by his claim it was the defining quote of the campaign. He did.

In a campaign which has at its centre a discredited scare on Medicare and has seen Labor in a costings debate supporting cuts it once opposed and proposing a bigger deficit over four years than the government, Shorten’s misquote provides ammunition for attacks on his credibility. As the clock ticks down on the marathon campaign, Shorten, who is behind in Newspoll and trailing in key marginal seats, is flailing for every opportunity to haul in Turnbull. But he succeeds only in looking desperate.

trainspotter · 29 June 2016

SirRumpole said:
Depends on how you pay for your spending.

Not paying for negative gearing helps pay for it, and this is a structural reform that saves money every year.

I'm surprised that people who complain about Labor spending don't appear to support the negative gearing reforms, which Malcon himself called tax avoidance.

Yeah it worked really well for the Labor government in 1985

Abolish CGT while you are at it Horace

“There’s a sad segment amongst Australians who believe that negative gearing is some kind of hand out to the rich,’’ he said.
“Little do they know that there are approximately 1.9 million Australian property investors and more than 70 per cent of them only own one investment property and have a taxable income of less than $80,000.’’

http://www.news.com.au/finance/real...d/news-story/77e20e831663c67343a472443a62f986

SirRumpole · 29 June 2016

trainspotter said:
Yeah it worked really well for the Labor government in 1985

Abolish CGT while you are at it Horace

http://www.news.com.au/finance/real...d/news-story/77e20e831663c67343a472443a62f986

Keating abolished the whole lot in 85. It's grandfathered under the latest arrangements, there is no comparison.

One investor's property is another family without their own home.

I don't give a stuff about Liberal propaganda, the vast majority of negative gearing benefits go to the top 10 percent of income earners.

It's a rort and should be got rid off.

Is Shorten PM material?