Is Shorten PM material?

sptrawler · 22 June 2015

IFocus said:
Its an absurd situation where those that have invested a life time attacking workers rights and conditions are held up as credible to criticize one who has spent a life time doing the opposite.

Anyone with a moral fiber would recognize the political abuse of this royal commission.

If the lid was ever lifted on the Liberal party connections to money and influence................

As a blue collar worker all my life, I can tell you I and most of my fellow workers became disenfranchised with the unions in the 80's, it hasn't recovered since.

The unions and I'm only speaking from W.A experience, became a political tool in the 80's and made no secret of the fact, many industrial disputes were ended or extended for political reasons.

Post the 1980 period, I personally observed better negotiated outcomes were forthcoming, when Liberal were in office, this was mainly due to the union working for you rather than the government.

It all sounds wonderful, the union representing you, but when it conflicts with their their personal political aspirations conflicts arise.

Well that has been my personal observations.

IFocus · 22 June 2015

sptrawler said:
As a blue collar worker all my life, I can tell you I and most of my fellow workers became disenfranchised with the unions in the 80's, it hasn't recovered since.

The unions and I'm only speaking from W.A experience, became a political tool in the 80's and made no secret of the fact, many industrial disputes were ended or extended for political reasons.

Post the 1980 period, I personally observed better negotiated outcomes were forthcoming, when Liberal were in office, this was mainly due to the union working for you rather than the government.

It all sounds wonderful, the union representing you, but when it conflicts with their their personal political aspirations conflicts arise.

Well that has been my personal observations.

You are kidding me the Liberals are protecting workers rights what friggen bubble are you living in.....Work Non Choices is that what you call representing workers FFS.

You believe the propaganda fed to you by conservatives with only one agenda get real for gods sake.

sptrawler · 22 June 2015

IFocus said:
You are kidding me the Liberals are protecting workers rights what friggen bubble are you living in.....Work Non Choices is that what you call representing workers FFS.

.

If you read my post, I didn't say Liberals were protecting our rights, I said when Liberals were in Government, the UNIONS were fighting the government to protect our rights.

When Labor were in Government, the Unions were in bed with them 'shafting' us, to further their political ambitions.

You believe the lawyers and accountants that are union secretaries FFS .

Tisme · 23 June 2015

IFocus said:
Its an absurd situation where those that have invested a life time attacking workers rights and conditions are held up as credible to criticize one who has spent a life time doing the opposite.

Anyone with a moral fiber would recognize the political abuse of this royal commission.If the lid was ever lifted on the Liberal party connections to money and influence................

This is where a dichotomy occurs. Because the Labor Party is perceived as the social conscience, it is held to a higher account than the Liberals, who are perceived as money/wealth/capital players and therefore expected to profit via guile and trickery.

Doesn't matter than Labor pollies are increasingly incubated in upper middle class and probably never swung a hammer in their lives and the Liberal pollies might as well have the Indian Ocean between them and experience in industry, commerce and business.

Journalists, lawyers and the Pope are in charge of both houses now ... Noco's fabians might be in the mix too, but way off in the distance in my view

SirRumpole · 23 June 2015

Tisme said:
This is where a dichotomy occurs. Because the Labor Party is perceived as the social conscience, it is held to a higher account than the Liberals, who are perceived as money/wealth/capital players and therefore expected to profit via guile and trickery.

Doesn't matter than Labor pollies are increasingly incubated in upper middle class and probably never swung a hammer in their lives and the Liberal pollies might as well have the Indian Ocean between them and experience in industry, commerce and business.

Journalists, lawyers and the Pope are in charge of both houses now ... Noco's fabians might be in the mix too, but way off in the distance in my view

I think the Fabians are probably less in the mix than a bunch of right wing freaks called the IPA.

https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au...-faceless-men-the-ipa/1401458400#.VYiHeEb50x0

Tisme · 23 June 2015

SirRumpole said:
I think the Fabians are probably less in the mix than a bunch of right wing freaks called the IPA.

https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au...-faceless-men-the-ipa/1401458400#.VYiHeEb50x0

Did you watch ABC yesterday and the IPA fella who reckons that wealthy people should pay to send their kids to public schools? Wannabe adult Abbott might have denied it would have any traction in between shouting "slow learner" insults to Shorten yesterday, but there is no denying the IPA does have major influence on the Libs, the Nats of course obsequiously obedient as ever.

drsmith · 23 June 2015

The Greens's decision to support the government's age pension changes seems to have shaken Bill Shorten and Labor,

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-23/labor-bows-to-fuel-excise-increase/6566240

drsmith · 24 June 2015

Shaken and "caught on the hop" ??

Bill Shorten admits to lying to broadcaster Neil Mitchell over leadership questions

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...ver-leadership-questions-20150624-ghwdnr.html

sptrawler · 24 June 2015

drsmith said:
Shaken and "caught on the hop" ??

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...ver-leadership-questions-20150624-ghwdnr.html

Shock, horror, I thought Abbott was supposed to be the only one that tells lies.

IFocus · 24 June 2015

sptrawler said:
Shock, horror, I thought Abbott was supposed to be the only one that tells lies.

Abbott is the only one that repeats them every day

banco · 24 June 2015

Good luck on cross examination at the Royal Commission when you've just admitted to lying a week ago. The lawyers' questions write themselves.

noco · 27 June 2015

Good on you Bill for looking after the workers at the Chiquita mushroom factory...the deal between you and the company left those poor workers worse off.
Good luck on the 7th July......you will need it.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...rk-on-union-deal/story-fnkdypbm-1227416960237

We don’t know 100 per cent of the details yet about the AWU’s deal, as all the evidence hasn’t been heard, but we do know that by the time the Chiquita deal was done everyone won except the workers.

The employer’s crippling WorkCover premiums were shifted over to a labour-hire company. The union’s falling membership was reversed by nearly 700 people and it received lots of cash. The people who were lucky enough to be chosen to start the labour-hire business made profits, at least until they went bust, owing worker entitlements.

It was only the workers who drew the short straw. All they got was to keep working at the same place for a lot less money, minus their job security, although they were allegedly injured less.

Aren’t modern, co-operative unions just wonderful? Over the years, these types of unions have proved very handy for some in the business sector. This explains why they have staunch defenders sprinkled throughout the top end of town.

MrBurns · 27 June 2015

First it was Juliar

Now it's Billy Liar

What a great opposition we have and heaven help us if they ever fluke their way back in.

noco · 27 June 2015

MrBurns said:
First it was Juliar

Now it's Billy Liar

What a great opposition we have and heaven help us if they ever fluke their way back in.

YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!

More debt
More carbon dioxide tax.
More mining tax.
More tax on superannuation.
More illegal boat arrivals.
More control of the ABC
More central control of the Banks, Mining, Manufacturing, Agriculture and the way we live....Less wages for the workers like Chicquita and Cleanevent.
More bowing to the Greens.

Back to the 19th century......God help us all....If there is a God.

galumay · 27 June 2015

noco said:
More debt - Like Abbott's government?
More carbon dioxide tax. - As opposed to more CO2?
More mining tax.- As opposed to not paying any tax in australia on their super-profits?
More tax on superannuation. - Good
More illegal boat arrivals. - Refugees are not illegal, what is illegal is the way we currently treat them. sadly there is no evidence that the ALP have any moral fibre on this issue either.
More control of the ABC - Thats Abbot's agenda, he is the one that wants the ABC to be the State media for the gov.
More central control of the Banks, Mining, Manufacturing, Agriculture and the way we live....Less wages for the workers like Chicquita and Cleanevent. - Put your tin hat on noco!
More bowing to the Greens. - We can only hope, will depend on the senate, just like Abbot's deals.

Back to the 19th century......God help us all....If there is a God.

That got me laughing! A supporter of the most regressive, conservative, negative and backward focussed government we have probably ever seen, suggesting a change in government would be going backwards! Hell if this country goes any faster backwards we will fall off the edge of the flat earth that it would appear the LNP believe in.

ps. I am only posting in this thread because I am bored waiting for the rugby to start, i know you are a welded on RWNJ noco, so i dont expect you to see the light anytime soon. I do despair for the future of this country while we have the worst PM ever who has done incalculable harm to our country and its reputation - but while the alternative is Little Bill, a man I know all too well - we are in a dark place. His recent voting alongside Abbot to protect paedophiles raping and traumatising refugee children in detention shows just how immoral politics has become in this country.

noco · 27 June 2015

galumay said:
That got me laughing! A supporter of the most regressive, conservative, negative and backward focussed government we have probably ever seen, suggesting a change in government would be going backwards! Hell if this country goes any faster backwards we will fall off the edge of the flat earth that it would appear the LNP believe in.

ps. I am only posting in this thread because I am bored waiting for the rugby to start, i know you are a welded on RWNJ noco, so i dont expect you to see the light anytime soon. I do despair for the future of this country while we have the worst PM ever who has done incalculable harm to our country and its reputation - but while the alternative is Little Bill, a man I know all too well - we are in a dark place. His recent voting alongside Abbot to protect paedophiles raping and traumatising refugee children in detention shows just how immoral politics has become in this country.

LOL

The light on the hill went out years ago

Play the ball and not the man mate.

ROFL....

trainspotter · 27 June 2015

galumay said:
That got me laughing! A supporter of the most regressive, conservative, negative and backward focussed government we have probably ever seen, suggesting a change in government would be going backwards! Hell if this country goes any faster backwards we will fall off the edge of the flat earth that it would appear the LNP believe in.

ps. I am only posting in this thread because I am bored waiting for the rugby to start, i know you are a welded on RWNJ noco, so i dont expect you to see the light anytime soon. I do despair for the future of this country while we have the worst PM ever who has done incalculable harm to our country and its reputation - but while the alternative is Little Bill, a man I know all too well - we are in a dark place. His recent voting alongside Abbot to protect paedophiles raping and traumatising refugee children in detention shows just how immoral politics has become in this country.

As opposed to Rudd/Gillard/Rudd era of how many refugees drowning on their way here to our country?

Immoral or not this is what we are left with to deal against to not let this happen again.

Howard: Children overboard

Rudd/Gillard/Rudd: 1,000s drowned at sea

Abbott: Refugees in camps from whom? Don't play the trauma card. Chris Bowen 2010 was immigration minister ...

Sorry to mention the boats Chris – but your Sergeant Schultz defence of ‘not knowing anything’ about the 800 boats and 50,000 people that poured into Australia under your Government highlights Labor’s total inability to accept responsibility for its many failures.

Perhaps a quick recounting of recent history will help.

Remember the Howard Government stopped the boats.

Remember Labor then threw open the borders to the people smugglers.

Remember you were Immigration Minister from September 2010 until February 2013 – that’s a two year period that’s hard to forget Chris because 398 boats arrived in that time – carrying more than 24,000 illegal arrivals – almost half the total of Labor’s failed years.

Remember you were opening detention centres and filling them up with men, women and children.

But that’s nothing to do with you.

The attempts today to pass blame to the current Government for the huge numbers of illegal maritime arrivals that are yet to be processed by immigration and security agencies are little more than a pathetic attempt to avoid the hard questions.

Will Labor now support Temporary Protection Visas, regional processing and Operation Sovereign Borders? Can Labor guarantee it won’t return to its failed open borders policy?

They’re the questions Australians want Bill Shorten to answer. His silence remains deafening.

http://www.minister.immi.gov.au/peterdutton/2015/Pages/Chris-Bowen-Labors-Sergeant-Schultz.aspx

You figure it out

noco · 27 June 2015

Bill Shorten's best interview.....No lies this time....He has spoken the truth for a change.

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailyteleg...ilytelegraph/comments/bill_tells_it_straight/

noco · 1 July 2015

Janet Albrechtsen sums Bill Shorten extremely well......Just how can he survive?....I mean the man has nothing going for him......I beg the Labor Party to leave him as leader...While Bill is leader, Abbott's job as PM will be strengthened.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...422450927?sv=1f51f7d76396e09ea8b8c4d36032c637

Laura Tingle alluded to it on the ABC’s Insiders when she said no one knows who Shorten is. And that means attacks on the Opposition Leader tend to leave deeper bruises than they may for a leader who has a well-established political character in the marketplace of voters. Even after nine years as a union leader and almost eight years in parliament, Shorten still hasn’t built up a strong, deep and respectable persona. It’s why anything said against Shorten sticks like a first impression.

Hence damaging claims about shady deals done by Shorten when he led the Australian Workers Union leave a mark. Ditto when the Opposition Leader makes policy mistakes such as being outwitted by the Greens over sensible pension savings.

And when his murky factional history within Labor is trawled over, there’s nothing much for Shorten to fall back on.

Macquack · 1 July 2015

noco said:
Bill Shorten's best interview.....No lies this time....He has spoken the truth for a change.

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailyteleg...ilytelegraph/comments/bill_tells_it_straight/

Tim Blair (who ever he is?) is a complete and utter buffoon. I watched that video in good faith and just wasted 3 minutes and 5 seconds of my life.

Noco, you are the "world champion" of Labor bashers, you should be extremely happy with Shorten as leader of the opposition, because that is his highest calling. (get the concept???)

Is Shorten PM material?