Is cryptocurrency the greatest market bubble of all time?

[Value Collector]

Bitcoin has a big advantage over other cryptocurrencies and even fiat currencies such as the US dollar or the euro, as it protects against inflation over time. Unlike other currencies, the supply of bitcoin tokens is limited. Therefore, its popularity and price will only increase over time.
The price of bitcoin may experience short-term fluctuations, but in the long-term period, it will only rise.

That is actually a disadvantage,

One of the primary conditions a currency needs is stability, this means it’s needs to have the ability to be managed, fiats achieve this by having central banks that can create dollars and either put more into circulation or withdraw them from circulation.

Bitcoin doesn’t have this ability, so it would always fluctuate wildly with the economic cycles, and could be cornered by groups hoarding it, which would cause interruptions in the business cycle.

“currency” is meant to be a unit of exchange and store of value, it’s not meant to be an investment in itself.

the whole reason that inflation has been built into fiat currency is because we want to protect against deflation which is scarier, and was the cause of the Great Depression, and we want to discourage hoarding of dollars and instead incentivise people to make real investments.

 

[basilio]

The amount of crap and misinformation or perhaps blatant spruking online is worrying and funny.

Once again I like to underline news.com.au is not real media however reaches far.



Mind you this is under "investing" section too. This article pretty much sums up the crypto game and the motives behind the players who still claim its a "investment"


full article for a good laugh

Aussies plans for unusual Christmas gifts

More than a quarter of Aussies plan to buy crypto gifts for loved ones at Christmas this year, according to new research.

www.news.com.au

What a load of rubbish. So somehow we are supposed to believe that 30-40% of Australians are planning/thinking about giving friends cryptocurrency as a Christmas present ?
Or perhaps this is just a "seeding" exercise where some ethicless marketing smarty pants decides to put out a marketing stunt in the hope that they can rope in a some more players.

For example why not just give 10,000 people 100 tokens of a brand new coin and then when they are floated boost the price from 20c each to $1 and make them feel like they have won a jackpot. Why they might even buy another 100 at a $1 to boost their winnings.

This is just one giant shell game.

 

[Value Collector]

What a load of rubbish. So somehow we are supposed to believe that 30-40% of Australians are planning/thinking about giving friends cryptocurrency as a Christmas present ?
Or perhaps this is just a "seeding" exercise where some ethicless marketing smarty pants decides to put out a marketing stunt in the hope that they can rope in a some more players.

For example why not just give 10,000 people 100 tokens of a brand new coin and then when they are floated boost the price from 20c each to $1 and make them feel like they have won a jackpot. Why they might even buy another 100 at a $1 to boost their winnings.

This is just one giant shell game.

There is also an article that won’t die, the just put a different celebrities name on it time claiming that the celebrity is investing in Bitcoin and has been on the project talking about, I have seen the same article multiple times with different peoples names attached, so far it’s been Andrew Forrest, Elon Musk, Chris Hemsworth and Dick Smith.

Each time the article claims that the said celebrity was on the project talking to Walleed about the secrets to their financial success and that it was jumping into Bitcoin without hesitation.

 

[greggles]

Unlike other currencies, the supply of bitcoin tokens is limited. Therefore, its popularity and price will only increase over time.
The price of bitcoin may experience short-term fluctuations, but in the long-term period, it will only rise.

I don't agree with this proposition. Just because the supply of something is limited, it doesn't follow that its price will continue to rise. You can have a limited supply of something for which there is no demand, making it worthless. The only reason cryptocurrencies have continued to increase in value during 2021 is their perceived value, not their real value.

 

[grah33]

Bitcoin seems to be another currency just like any other one. And isn't deflating every year, so solves a serious problem. And can't be controlled by bad governments, at least directly.
And everybody is using it. Just depends on whether the powers will stop it altogether, or try to profit from it. We'll see.

 

[basilio]

Bitcoin seems to be another currency just like any other one

Perhaps we should stop right there.
Bitcoin is not a currency that can be practically used to buy and sell products. The transaction costs for most normal activities are just too high.

For some purposes, mostly illegal, Bitcoin can be used to transfer value anonymously. At this stage it seems to be more of a speculative electronic currency that as effectively spawned a thousand offspring.

 

[StockyGuy]

I don't agree with this proposition. Just because the supply of something is limited, it doesn't follow that its price will continue to rise. You can have a limited supply of something for which there is no demand, making it worthless. The only reason cryptocurrencies have continued to increase in value during 2021 is their perceived value, not their real value.

Some say perception is reality, so if all think like Will then...

But seriously, there's a view that normal fiat currencies are, with no precious metal backing, worthless, just based on confidence and are ultimately smoke and mirrors.

No, USD is back backed by men with guns, by the greatest war machine the world has ever known. In turn all real fiat currencies are supported by their government(s), military and military alliances. You can also, if you choose to, hold it in your hand, which is rather nice...it actually exists, it's not just a concept.

Crypto is backed by.......... crickets chirping in the distance, tumbleweeds tumbling on the streets of ghost towns, ya get the picture

 

[So_Cynical]

Now think of the migrants sending money overseas or small business doing transnational business

Typical cost of this is now about 8 AUD per transaction, so on 1000 bucks, 0.8% + FX margin add another 0.5% so pretty cheap.

 

[againsthegrain]

Perhaps we should stop right there.
Bitcoin is not a currency that can be practically used to buy and sell products. The transaction costs for most normal activities are just too high.

For some purposes, mostly illegal, Bitcoin can be used to transfer value anonymously. At this stage it seems to be more of a speculative electronic currency that as effectively spawned a thousand offspring.

Public ledger... less anonymous then actual cash so scratch that off the list

 

[Value Collector]

Bitcoin seems to be another currency just like any other one. And isn't deflating every year, so solves a serious problem. And can't be controlled by bad governments, at least directly.
And everybody is using it. Just depends on whether the powers will stop it altogether, or try to profit from it. We'll see.

Is anyone signing long term contracts like leases based on fixed amounts of Bitcoin? If not how can it be a currency? It’s more like a commodity.

how would the economy go if people decided the way to get rich was just to hoard the “currency” rather than make actual invesyments

 

[Trader X]

When paid in USD or other key currency but living in Australia, or any of smaller countries, any foreign exchange is hitting you badly.try to transfer USD here via CBA and be shocked.....

Sounds like you have not heard about Wise. Transfer funds overseas quite often using them, very low fees, great exchange rates and most transfers take only a matter of hours. Using banks for this is silly. No need to use crypto for this kind of transaction unless of course you need to hide identity because of the nature of transaction or the source of funds - a primary use case for crypto.

 

[againsthegrain]

Sounds like you have not heard about Wise. Transfer funds overseas quite often using them, very low fees, great exchange rates and most transfers take only a matter of hours. Using banks for this is silly. No need to use crypto for this kind of transaction unless of course you need to hide identity because of the nature of transaction or the source of funds - a primary use case for crypto.

Sending crypto overseas sounds easy but means that you need to make a account on a local exchange, 100 point id check + report to austrac.

Your relative or friend overseas also needs to verify on a local exchange.

1. there is no anonymity
2. What happens with tax? In aus converting crypto to fiat automatically triggers a tax event. Yes I am sure you can explain it all to the ato... but then again ato even said they themselves are hunting crypto traders and unpaid tax.

Id much rather wise, don't have to worry if crypto goes down 10% the next day

 

[moXJO]

Crypto is sht for transactions. I use it a lot and often have to use bridges to get the fees down. It is however an awesome place to trade.
Most people would not be able to use it though.
Some Crypto is easy to use, cheap fees.

I like the space. If Facebook is all in on "meta" then it's only going to grow.

 

[moXJO]

Perhaps we should stop right there.
Bitcoin is not a currency that can be practically used to buy and sell products. The transaction costs for most normal activities are just too high.

For some purposes, mostly illegal, Bitcoin can be used to transfer value anonymously. At this stage it seems to be more of a speculative electronic currency that as effectively spawned a thousand offspring.

Actually you can use a credit card. Never tried it myself as it's pretty recent. Bitcoin is not anonymous it's all traceable. Costs are bloody high with gas fees. Unsure about the card fees.

Crypto.com Visa Card: The only crypto card you need

Get up to 5% back on spending paid in crypto. No monthly, annual, or ATM withdrawal fees.

crypto.com

 

[moXJO]

I think the main point here is:
Crypto is the greatest trade you all never made.

I think it's stupid. But enough people seem to like it.
I mean million % returns! You think I’m not spending hours on learning the basics and exploring the space to try and capture some.

As is, it's a terrible currency. Sucks in multiple ways. But I can sell digital crap and make real money. I'm riding it till it pops.

But I love the space. Some great people and really foreword thinkers.

 

[Smurf1976]

Crypto is the greatest trade you all never made.

Indeed.

There'd be few who don't wish they'd bought in, or bought more, when it was cheap.

As a practical currency though it has a lot of problems, it's far too volatile, but no arguing that fortunes have been made out of it thus far.

 

[Value Collector]

Actually you can use a credit card. Never tried it myself as it's pretty recent. Bitcoin is not anonymous it's all traceable. Costs are bloody high with gas fees. Unsure about the card fees.

Crypto.com Visa Card: The only crypto card you need

Get up to 5% back on spending paid in crypto. No monthly, annual, or ATM withdrawal fees.

crypto.com

I wonder if any bank would be bold enough to issue a credit card where the balances were held in bit coin? And not immediately settled into a real currency.

Eg. A purchase is made today for $X Bitcoin, and the bank holds that debt as Bitcoin until it’s paid off by the card holder.

With Bitcoin being so volatile, it could end up being very bad for either the card holder or the card issuer depending on which way Bitcoin price swings.

Until credit cards are operating like that we can’t really say there is Bitcoin “credit cards”

 

[moXJO]

Indeed.

There'd be few who don't wish they'd bought in, or bought more, when it was cheap.

As a practical currency though it has a lot of problems, it's far too volatile, but no arguing that fortunes have been made out of it thus far.

Early days I suppose. I never thought bitcoin was any good. The whole space is clunky and full of scams. I mentioned it before that it feels like the internet in the 90s before big business ruined it and look at the behemoths that has spawned.

All I can say is take notice of this space now. It's setting up for future giants.

 

[moXJO]

I wonder if any bank would be bold enough to issue a credit card where the balances were held in bit coin? And not immediately settled into a real currency.

Eg. A purchase is made today for $X Bitcoin, and the bank holds that debt as Bitcoin until it’s paid off by the card holder.

With Bitcoin being so volatile, it could end up being very bad for either the card holder or the card issuer depending on which way Bitcoin price swings.

Until credit cards are operating like that we can’t really say there is Bitcoin “credit cards”

From what I understand it's a prepaid card in Australia. I'm not sure what options the Yanks have though.
Sorry but I'm not fully up to speed on it

Personally I think just the gas fees would kill it.
However if the above was done it would skirt a few tax laws as it's being used to buy goods.
I think we are a long way from that in Australia.

 

[Trader X]

Crypto is the greatest trade you all never made.

As is, it's a terrible currency. Sucks in multiple ways. But I can sell digital crap and make real money. I'm riding it till it pops.

Crypto profits are about timing the momentum swings, those that hodl now are late to the party. Know many who bought and sold Bitcoin, none believed crypto mania would drive the price to current levels so they sold.

Referring to crypto as currency is a misnomer, you can only exchange it for currency. Those who trade the FX markets know that a 1-2% swing in a major currency pair is a big event. A 10% swing would be an extreme outlier event to say the least, not in the crypto casino.

‘Domino effect’ warning as $200 billion wiped off cryptocurrency market. This kind of volatility exposes the delusion that crypto can act as a "currency", store of value or reliable medium of exchange.