Intraday trading

[MichaelD]

feedback is appreciated.

1. You're letting winners run and cutting losers short.
2. Based on your numbers, you have a positive expectancy.
3. You haven't blown up in these market conditions.

Doesn't sound to me like there's any problem, apart from you perhaps thinking that everyone else here is doing better than you (with very few exceptions, they're not - most have been slaughtered in the last 12 months).

 

[peter2]

Thanks for your reply. Like MichaelD I am surprised to see that you do know something about trading. The trading scenarios were possible although you didn't specify how much of a risk you were prepared to take if price didn't continue in the right direction for you. You will have to organise this aspect of your trading or it is gambling.

The challenge for you would seem to be if you are capable of trading in this manner day after day. Can you step up after one or more losing days? Your approach is very discretionary and is very susceptable to emotional saboutage. I think this is what is happening to you now. You are doubting your ability to do this all the time so you are using the punting excuse. You must believe that it is a business. You must mange your risk all the time. You must persevere day after day. You must keep a constant eye on your trading stats to monitor your performance.

Discretionary traders do it tough and very few survive. I would urge you to morph your approach into a more systematic approach. Then you will be able to see what works and when. Newcomers always trade in a discretionary manner until they have a few losses and then they are lost because they don't know what they were doing wrong and they can't find out because they have no system.

You will have to work slowly towards your trading goals. Self confidence takes time to build so does your trading capital. It is much better if both grow together.

 

[professor_frink]

1. You're letting winners run and cutting losers short.
2. Based on your numbers, you have a positive expectancy.
3. You haven't blown up in these market conditions.

Doesn't sound to me like there's any problem, apart from you perhaps thinking that everyone else here is doing better than you (with very few exceptions, they're not - most have been slaughtered in the last 12 months).

yeah I agree with Michael.

It sounds like you aren't doing as badly as you think fallenangel. I'm curious as to why you are still referring to it as a punt. Is it due to the win rate? Or aren't you making enough money yet? Or is it because you just don't think you 'know' what you are doing? If that last one is the case, then you might get something out of my comments below.

I am sure you are a smart person with a name like professor how could you not be.

Dunno about that one

technical analysis is probably the one thing that has been consistent

yep. That's why I like it. Whilst a lot of people are running around in a panic, the market remains essentially the same from a TA perspective and quite tradeable in this kind of environment.

I do not profess to know alot about candle reverse patterns or alot about charting I am still learning 6 months in the market is like a new born baby.

that is why I mentioned doing a lot of testing to get yourself to the point where you do know a lot about reversal patterns if that's what you want to trade. And by know, I don't mean knowing the theory about identifying what a doji or hammer is, I'm talking about a practical knowledge that helps you trade - whenever a doji has shown up on WPL in a downtrend in the past, there is a 41% chance that the close will be higher than the open tomorrow and the open will be in the bottom 10% of tomorrow's range. That kind of stuff.

Can anyone give me a clue I am sure there is a multitude of things I am not doing any pointers

If you want to make it as a daytrader, you need to become a true student of the market, observe and record everything that you see happening. This goes for general market movements as well as recording the trades you make.

If you want to trade WPL for example, are you also watching the other oilers, and the oil price throughout the day? How does WPL react if the oil price starts ticking up during the day? Is it also influenced by the rest of our market, how does it react to BHP or RIO moving during the day? Are you also watching the other sectors of the market to see if you can pick up on an overall market rally a little earlier than if you were just watching the company you wanted to trade? Only with continued observation and recording will you be able to truly answer all of these types of questions. And once you start to learn how the market is moving, it'll probably turn around and completely change on you, but as you go along you'll get better and better at picking up on these types of changes and will be able to adapt quite quickly.

One way to do this is to save a copy of the generic news article we all read in one way or another each morning before the market opens. Keep a record of any major news story that impacts the market during the day too. Collect data(or if you can't get it take screenshots) on pretty well everything you can think of - stocks you are following, the local index, major currencies, commodities, overseas index futures, anything else that you can think of. At the end of the day, you should be able to explain to pretty well anyone what happened during the day and what the market is focusing on, which companies/markets are moving together, and which are moving independently. Over time you will start to notice certain correlations that you can start looking to trade off.


Recording your actual trades is very important too. In 2 years time, you want to be able to look back at the RIO trade you took the other day and KNOW exactly where you entered, where you exited, why you wanted to trade it that day and what you were thinking about at the time you took the trade.

Here's one way you can do this - take a screenshot of the intraday chart with each trade you take, marked with the entry and exit on it. If you were looing at an EOD reversal/continuation pattern, then keep a copy of that too. If there is a news story behind the trade, then keep a copy of that on your hard drive with the annotated chart(s). You can also get audio recording software so that you can sit down at the screen with a microphone and run a commentary as the trade sets up right through to the exit and store that with the chart and news story. Sounds like a lot of work, but isn't that hard once you are in the habit of doing so.

As you go along, you will end up building up a massive database you can then reference for later use to get some feedback on what you are doing. Don't just read about what's going, actually learn how the market moves and how you react to what you see.

Hope this helps.

 

[fallenangel22]

Thanks professor,

That's what I am talking about... Great post and really constructive ideas.
Cheers to you. And thanks everyone else too

 

[kitrob]

guys, Im enjoying your chat. Ive been at this trading game now for a year. I started by believing the local ABN Amro broker who put me into 10 stocks. I then got keen on all this stuff and started doing my own research, analysis etc. This involved reading the usual books, just finished the Kaplan Technical Analysis course, reading newsletters till they come out my bum etc. It didnt take long for me to realise that the ABN broker didnt know ****. Meanwhile because I did not know about stop losses and other trading tools my 10 stocks tanked to the point that they must now sit in the bottom drawer till they return to value in 5 years time. (I dont have to sell stock at 50% of its purchase price!!!) Needless to say the expensive ABN broker has been fired and I now use Directbroking for my trading and Incredible charts for my analysis. Through all this I have deduced that it is bloody difficult to make money in the markets going long in a bear market. Im convinced that these guys who claim to make these huge returns in trading do so in bull markets and are to a large extent reliant on the market bull rather than there expertise to make there gains. I know you can short etc but show me the financial wizards of the last 12 mths?. anyway, despite all that I am ahead for the year apart that is from my bottom draw buys which remain alive. Anyway can someone help me. I want to use a live feed to the ASX with good charting capabilities. I have looked at Boursedata but at $120 per mth its a bit expensive. Has anyone got any suggestions?