Indextra

[maggieT]

I think we need some balance here. I first joined in November 2012 and started live trading Feb 2013. You pay a small amount for two intro sessions before you decide. Jim encourages you to bring some one in to bounce off i.e your partner, accountant, solicitor etc. I treat this as a business so consider the costs minimal compared to a franchise etc. I have tried many other training courses like safety in the market and the smart system but found them too complicated and time consuming. I get as much training as I wish on a one on one basis and he has always been available via phone. It has been like learning to drive and then working out the nuts and bolts as you progress. Jim is very up front and will tell you if he thinks it is unsuitable for you. He has been teaching this for 17 years so is no fly by nighter. I have not had a losing trade to date (47) but when I do, I have protection in place which will make it impossible to lose 90% of my money. I have introduced 4 other people to Jim and all are as satisfied as I am. If you want to find out you should go in yourself.
Am I a plant? No, as the song goes I found it on the Radio.
Am I biased? you bet! I think the guy is a genius!

Cheers maggieT

 

[Porper]

I have not had a losing trade to date (47)

Wow, that is amazing...please send me the details as I truly am trembling with anticipation.

Am I a plant?

I could think of other words that offer a better description...but yes you are.

 

[maggieT]

Wow, that is amazing...please send me the details as I truly am trembling with anticipation.



I could think of other words that offer a better description...but yes you are.

Sorry Porper if I can't give you any dirt!
Find out for yourself.

 

[graexx]

I have protection in place which will make it impossible to lose 90% of my money.

Cheers maggieT

Maggie

1. If the Indextra system is so good, ask Jim for a copy of his broker account history to prove he trades the system.

2. You say it is impossible to lose 90% of your money. This tells me you don't understand the bull put spread trades you are entering into. Stop losses do not work with options because options are (i) time limited, and (ii) so highly geared you will have little chance of recovering from a sustained (4 months or more) correction of 11% or more in the market.

In the event of such a fall, the best you could hope for is to exit the trade before it falls too far. In other words you would buy your way out of such a correction on the way down - this will cost you around 30 - 60% of your money, depending on how deep into the correction you are i.e. if the market has only fallen 4% when you buy your way out, it will cost you far less than if the market had fallen 7% (I'm assuming your sold strike is about 10% below the market price when you enter your trades).

The other main "Protection" in such a downturn, is to move your trade out to a later month to give yourself extra time i.e. to give the market more time to recover - this will also cost a lot of your money, and there is no guarantee of it working - in which case you could lose all the money you had in the trade plus the extra amount you spent to protect yourself.

3. You are very fortunate that the S&P 500 has been in a bull market since early 2009 - that's a 71-month bull run - this is the longest bull market for 86 years. It may last for another 6 - 18 months (who knows), but the odds are it will end soon - at which time the accompanying downturns will make your types of trades (3-month bull put spreads) VERY HIGH RISK.

Maggie, all I can say to you is WHY ARE YOU GETTING MIXED UP WITH OPTIONS TRADING? - my guess is you are not experienced in trading the financial markets and you are just following what Jim tells you.

Why don't you get together and have a meeting with other clients of Jim's and discuss the issues I have raised - and ask Jim to be present at the meeting? What have you got to lose by having such a meeting? (TIP: Jim will refuse such a meeting). Also discuss why Jim advised you to limit your Indextra trades to no more than 10 - 20% of your investable funds (perhaps, because they are very risky?).

Graeme

 

[maggieT]

Hi Graeme
I entered this forum to give my opinion of Indextra.
I don't want to get in a dispute. Indextra won't suit everybody but it suits myself and colleagues and my opinions stand. Good luck in your trading.

maggieT

 

[graexx]

Maggie
Certainly - I hope you do well.

Cheers

Graeme

 

[graexx]

Why all Indextra subscribers should leave Indextra

1. It's too risky because it involves trading options (read my replies above) - Jim Newman will tell you that he has various "safety" strategies - but as I have repeatedly said in my posts above, if the market falls by more than about 10% for about 4 months, you have a very good chance of losing a LOT of money - this is why Jim continually asks his clients to invest no more than 20% of their investable funds in the Indextra system.

2. You are paying way too much in ongoing brokerage - if you are determined to trade options, despite the risks, you will pay less than a third of this brokerage if you leave Indextra and negotiate a lower brokerage directly with a broker (this will require you to trade online using the broker's software - this software is much more advanced than Indextra's). Some Indextra clients do not have the IT sills to do this - but they could learn. The lower brokerage will dramatically improve your returns. Also you will have many more contract months available to you to trade. And you can adjust your entry, and target exits any time, free of charge. (By the way, as a licenced financial services advisor Jim Newman is entitled under Australian law to receive kickbacks from the broker when you trade - ask Jim Newman whether he receives these kickbacks.)

3. You are paying too much in ongoing subscriptions - at $150 per month - that's $1,800 per annum - why pay this when you can trade directly from the broker for about $15 per month in subscriptions? It would take many trades for the typical Indextra trader to make up $1,800 pa in subscription fees.

4. The $10,000 up front fee you paid was way too much, and if you were convinced to pay this because of the high returns Jim Newman talks about on his radio shows, you stand a good chance of getting it refunded. The best way you can get the $10,000 refunded to you is to unsubscribe and send a solicitor's letter to Jim Newman requesting a refund of the $10,000, The letter must state that you believe you were convinced to pay the $10,000 by the high investment returns Jim Newman talked about on his radio shows (assuming this is what convinced you to join Indextra), and that you don't believe the high returns were realistic (assuming you believe they were unrealistic - as I do). If Jim Newman does not refund your money you can start a class action with one of the well known legal firms who handle class actions e.g. Maurice Blackburn, or Slater and Gordon. The class action will focus on the high returns Jim Newman talks about on his radio show, and will compare this with the actual returns Indextra clients have achieved. Such class actions can be initiated free of charge, because the legal firm will only take it on if they think it will be successful - so they will only charge a success fee i.e. they will only charge you a portion of the damages awarded, only if it is successful.


Good luck

Graeme

 

[Peter Acfield]

Hi All. I'm a former journalist and radio presenter who had the honour of hosting Jim's program on 3MP for several years. When I was first tasked with presenting the program, Jim was painted as a "snake oil" salesman by some of my colleagues. I thought I was going to meet a dodgy advertorial pusher, but that couldn't have been further from the truth. I found Jim to be an "old fashioned" honourable Aussie. In fact since then, he and his family have become our good friends. Because I was going to be presenting the program for a while (I didn't realise it would stretch into several years), I decided to try the Indextra program as a way of making the radio program more interesting. I paper traded (no money, but following the program closely and monitoring results in the same way as a "live" trader). I did this the whole time that Jim and I worked together and never lost money on paper. I always chose relatively low risk trades and did well. I have been to functions where many of Jim's clients have attended and they have all spoken of Jim and the Indextra strategy in glowing terms. I am bewildered by the negative comments of one particular contributor, but I suppose Jim can't win them all.
I suppose it's time for the disclaimer/Facts:
When I hosted Jim's program, I was paid by 3MP, not Jim.
I did one small paid job for Jim several years ago, but there has been no commercial relationship since then.
I have recently retired and definitely will be using the Indextra system with Jim's help.
I found this site as a part of regular journalistic research and felt compelled to respond.
Unlike the negative poster(s), I have used my real name.
I really hope this is of some help to people who may have been turned away.
Kind regards to all.
Peter.

 

[graexx]

Hi All. I'm a former journalist and radio presenter who had the honour of hosting Jim's program on 3MP for several years. When I was first tasked with presenting the program, Jim was painted as a "snake oil" salesman by some of my colleagues. I thought I was going to meet a dodgy advertorial pusher, but that couldn't have been further from the truth. I found Jim to be an "old fashioned" honourable Aussie. In fact since then, he and his family have become our good friends. Because I was going to be presenting the program for a while (I didn't realise it would stretch into several years), I decided to try the Indextra program as a way of making the radio program more interesting. I paper traded (no money, but following the program closely and monitoring results in the same way as a "live" trader). I did this the whole time that Jim and I worked together and never lost money on paper. I always chose relatively low risk trades and did well. I have been to functions where many of Jim's clients have attended and they have all spoken of Jim and the Indextra strategy in glowing terms. I am bewildered by the negative comments of one particular contributor, but I suppose Jim can't win them all.
I suppose it's time for the disclaimer/Facts:
When I hosted Jim's program, I was paid by 3MP, not Jim.
I did one small paid job for Jim several years ago, but there has been no commercial relationship since then.
I have recently retired and definitely will be using the Indextra system with Jim's help.
I found this site as a part of regular journalistic research and felt compelled to respond.
Unlike the negative poster(s), I have used my real name.
I really hope this is of some help to people who may have been turned away.
Kind regards to all.
Peter.

Peter
You're obviously sincere and mean well.

It is clear to me that you do not have a good knowledge about the Bull Put Options Spreads that the Indextra system trades - read my above posts carefully and consider (a) the risks, and (b) the VERY high Indextra fees.

I don't blame you for not knowing the risks - how many people would?

As you have only paper traded, you have not had your money on the line, therefore you haven't had to understand the risks and VERY high fees involved.

In fact, I am aware (from certain information I have received, as well as listening to the weekly radio shows) that almost all Indextra traders do not have a sufficient level of understanding about the risks of Bull Put Options Spreads.

It is sad, to me, that of all the many people who attend the Indextra Introductory sessions, that a small minority actually end up subscribing. Sad because they are the unknowing and unwitting few who get convinced to part with $10,000 up front because they don't have the background to understand what they are getting into. From talking with some of these people and listening to others on the weekly Indextra radio shows, their career backgrounds are: teacher, postman, chief, shop proprietor, office worker etc - once they pay the $10,000 up-front fee, they are unable to think in a balanced, critical way about Indextra because they fear such thinking could depress them about (a) the risk of losing a lot of money, and (b) they may have wasted $10,000.

Just look at MaggieT's comment above as an example.

Let me be clear, all these people seem, to me, to be very nice and level-headed people - but they become irrationally supportive of Indextra - because they feel emotionally "locked in" because of the $10,000 they paid up-front.

Graeme

 

[Peter Acfield]

Peter
You're obviously sincere and mean well.

It is clear to me that you do not have a good knowledge about the Bull Put Options Spreads that the Indextra system trades - read my above posts carefully and consider (a) the risks, and (b) the VERY high Indextra fees.

I don't blame you for not knowing the risks - how many people would?

As you have only paper traded, you have not had your money on the line, therefore you haven't had to understand the risks and VERY high fees involved.

In fact, I am aware (from certain information I have received, as well as listening to the weekly radio shows) that almost all Indextra traders do not have a sufficient level of understanding about the risks of Bull Put Options Spreads.

It is sad, to me, that of all the many people who attend the Indextra Introductory sessions, that a small minority actually end up subscribing. Sad because they are the unknowing and unwitting few who get convinced to part with $10,000 up front because they don't have the background to understand what they are getting into. From talking with some of these people and listening to others on the weekly Indextra radio shows, their career backgrounds are: teacher, postman, chief, shop proprietor, office worker etc - once they pay the $10,000 up-front fee, they are unable to think in a balanced, critical way about Indextra because they fear such thinking could depress them about (a) the risk of losing a lot of money, and (b) they may have wasted $10,000.

Just look at MaggieT's comment above as an example.

Let me be clear, all these people seem, to me, to be very nice and level-headed people - but they become irrationally supportive of Indextra - because they feel emotionally "locked in" because of the $10,000 they paid up-front.

Graeme

Dear Graeme (still enjoying your anonymity without the guts to use your full name),
As a senior journalist for many years, I find your comments to be unbelievably arrogant and patronising. I have researched and written countless finance stories in short and long form for radio, TV and print. I was also a contributor to a regular financial planning video series for six years. After researching the Indextra system over a lengthy period, I'm confident that I have a far better understanding than that which you purport to have.
As you clearly have an agenda and I'm not prepared to keep wasting time on you, this will be my last post.
It's sad that people like you try to define themselves by anonymously attacking others.
It would be even more sad if anyone were to take your posts seriously.
Nevertheless, I hope things get better for you.
Peter.

 

[Porper]

As you clearly have an agenda and I'm not prepared to keep wasting time on you, this will be my last post..

Would be nice but I doubt that very much.

It's sad that people like you try to define themselves by anonymously attacking others.

It's also sad that the rampers keep ramping...but that's life. I'd be surprised if all on here didn't see straight through the posts from all these "New" members.

 

[graexx]

Dear Graeme (still enjoying your anonymity without the guts to use your full name),
As a senior journalist for many years, I find your comments to be unbelievably arrogant and patronising. I have researched and written countless finance stories in short and long form for radio, TV and print. I was also a contributor to a regular financial planning video series for six years. After researching the Indextra system over a lengthy period, I'm confident that I have a far better understanding than that which you purport to have.
As you clearly have an agenda and I'm not prepared to keep wasting time on you, this will be my last post.
It's sad that people like you try to define themselves by anonymously attacking others.
It would be even more sad if anyone were to take your posts seriously.
Nevertheless, I hope things get better for you.
Peter.

Peter

...and in all that those years you didn't place an Indextra trade with your own money on the line - did you feel your money was safer elsewhere?

 

[graexx]

I just heard last Sunday's Indextra radio show in which Jim interviewed "Sally", one of his subscribers.

They talked about Sally's experience of trading with Indextra over the past 3 years.

My summary of Sally's answers to Jim's questions are:
1. Her career background is as a Business Analyst with an emphasis on IT systems and business processes.
2. She has placed about 70 trades with Indextra over the past 3 years.
3. She does what Jim has trained her to do and does what Jim tells her to do when she is unsure or fearful.
4. She started trading with $5,000 3 years ago, and currently trades with $38,000 after adding more capital and making profits along the way (I will assume her weighted average capital invested over the 3 years is about $20,000)
5. Sally mentioned that her annual returns averaged around 30% for each of the 3 years (neither she nor Jim mentioned that this excludes Indextra fees).

Important points the interview did not mention:
1. Sally has paid $15,400 in fees to Indextra over the 3 years (assuming she paid $10,000 up-front and $150 per month thereafter, like most other Indextra subscribers)
2. Sally has earnt about $18,000 in trading profits (net of brokerage) over the 3 years - give or take a couple of $thousand.
3. Sally's average net profit each year was about $900 (after including all Indextra fees) - calculated as follows: ($20k less $15.4k) divided by 3 years
4. Therefore Sally's average annual net profit (after including all Indextra fees) was about 4.5% pa (calculated as $900/$20,000).

Certainly, my figures assume (i) Sally paid the same fees as most other subscribers, and (ii) her weighted average investment level was about $20,000. Even if my assumptions are incorrect, they wouldn't be far off the mark, and may even result in slightly over-inflating her average annual net profits.

Conclusions

1. Why would anyone trade a risky financial contract like options for 3 years to achieve a meager 4.5% pa net profit? (Read my posts above for a fuller explanation of the high risks options trading and the large losses which result from large sustained falls in the market).

2. During the interview Jim kept focusing on Sally's average 30% annual return - there was no mention of the net return after all Indextra fees was included - as I've mentioned in an earlier post, Jim is a hardened salesman.

3. Sally is just the sort of person Jim targets - Sally seems like a nice and level-headed person - but as a corporate office worker in the IT industry she admits she has almost zero knowledge and experience in trading financial markets - she does whatever Jim tells her to do.

4. If Sally, or anyone else, had calculated in advance that the fees for the first 3 years would be $15,400, would they have subscribed? (and this excludes brokerage which could amount to an additional (approximately) $3,500 on 70 trades - using Sally's case as an example - this assumes 70 single contract trades at $54 per trade - which was the brokerage rate when I traded with Indextra).

5. If Sally had known she could have trade Bull Options Spreads directly with the broker herself (she sounds like she has the IT skills) and saved paying the $15,400 in Indextra fees and paid about a third the brokerage - would she have subscribed to Indextra?
All she had to do was:
(i) Google "trading Bull Put Options Spreads using the SPX"
(ii) Open an account with a broker (I suggest a broker who uses the Interbroker platform or similar - not brokers attached to Australia's banks), and negotiated multi-contract brokerage at no more than $3 per contract per order i.e. a filled entry order with 2 contracts should cost no more than $6
(iii) performed the online training
(iv) entered contracts only on dips - it is much more profitable than the Indextra way because you profit from the rebound, and easier because you can trade any time and amend your orders at any time, free of charge.

6. Having said that, I wouldn't trade options (I stopped trading them last October when I realized how risky they were). I now trade the S&P 500 Index as an ETF using the "IVV" trading code (the American version not the Australian version). There are also other ETFs which do a good job such as the "SPY" ETF. These ETFs have negligible brokerage; they are very large and liquid; they are FAR less risky because they are not geared (options are geared); they are not time-limited (options have expiry dates - which makes them much more risky); I only enter on dips (which increases my profits); and I use stops at .5% below my entry price to reduce the potential for losses (stops don't prevent significant losses with options trading because the prices move quickly because options are very highly geared and the contracts are time-limited).

Graeme

 

[tech/a]

Client return $2,700
Indextra $15,500

Indextra risk 0%
Client Risk 100%.

Great business model.

 

[graexx]

As the Trump rally has reached its climax, the next few months are high risk if trading bull put spreads, as a 5-10% correction is more likely than recent years. So, it will be much more risky trading bull put options spreads the Indextra way - I suggest Indextra traders will find this time very difficult.

If the correction stays within 10%, the Indextra traders won't lose (as long as their strike levels are at least 10% below the S&P 500) - but what if it doesn't?

But, as I say repeatedly above - why trade options when you can trade the S&P 500 index via EFTs or as futures for miniscule fees and commissions and without the high gearing risk which comes with options trading? And without the sky-high Indextra fees.

Graeme