Importing Migrant Workers

numbercruncher · 28 May 2012

jank said:
Hand up here anyone who as actually been on a 457 visa? I dont think there has been anyone. As someone who has I can tell you that although there are many people out there who want to work, they want to work on their own terms. Do you think your average bogan out in Western Sydney will actually step up to the plate and work as FIFO on a 4/2 cycle? Also, your average person is not trained in these skills.
If you want to blame someone, blame the economic boom where everyone became a personal trainer, retail manager or real estate agent. I have no idea about training schemes here which can turn someone into a skilled mining engineer but that is where the problem lies, I think.
Anyway, they have to pay market rates anyway, I know I was. The mining execs cant wait 4-5 years until they have enough people with the right skills to complete a mining project. Something similar is happening now in Christchurch where there are thousands of foreign workers streaming into the city to start the rebuilding of the city. Kiwi media complaining of course that locals should be given preference for work but the is BS imo. Most unemployed kiwis or Aussies will not get themselves trained up for the job or have the right attitude. If Australia was in the middle of recession things would be different. Give it another 24 months, we will see a change then.

Are you a POM ?

Ha how does being on a 457 all of a sudden qualify you to be an expert of Australian workers ? You use things like Bogan from Western Sydney to support your flawed argument .....

You said ...

"Most unemployed kiwis or Aussies will not get themselves trained up for the job or have the right attitude"

That comment borders on racism - certainly biggoted, does nothing to encourage Australians to accept immigrants like yourself .... Im constantly reading about huge numbers of people becoming unemployed or stepped down to part time and Im sure they are keen as mustard to work ....

One point your right about is that we cant make skilled Mining Engineers overnight - but I didnt see anything about the Rinehart 1700 imports all being skilled mining Engineers ...

moXJO · 28 May 2012

Knobby22 said:
No, Unions are anti-immigration as it creates labour competition. Labor governments have always had a lower immigration rate than Liberal governments for that reason.

For instance the White Australia policy was set up by Labour to kick out the Chinese labourers. It was the Liberal governments of Menzies and Holt that ended it.

Oh really

Australian unions are proud to support the Welcome to Australia campaign to make asylum seekers and new migrants feel welcome to our country.

ACTU President Ged Kearney was today announced as an ambassador of Welcome to Australia, which aims to develop diversity, compassion, generosity and a commitment to give all individuals a fair go in our communities, workplaces and institutions.

http://www.actu.org.au/media/mediareleases/AustralianunionssayWelcometoAustraliatoasylumseekersandnewmigrants.aspx

Junior · 28 May 2012

My brother is a fully trained fitter, who has worked on a few different projects over the past two years. Port Hedland on the shiploaders, gold mine near Orange, and currently working in oil and gas off the coast of Karratha. Although he has been able to get reasonably regular work, it's not easy. He has to make loads of phone calls every day to a range of businesses, he gets ignored, fobbed off, misled etc etc. It takes lots of persistance until finally they give you very short notice, 'alright your medical is tomorrow, you fly out next week.

I'm in financial services, and have considered making the big switch, to follow the money and the work. Have had extensive conversations with my brother to discuss the feasibility of it. He says they won't take anyone without experience and tickets, and even once you are trained, it's difficult to get your first FIFO job.

So although there may be 'shortages' at certain times, it seems to me there's very little proactive hiring or recruiting going on. If there was a true shortage, an intelligent, physically fit man such as myself should be able to turn up to a mine site, get a few days training and start work as a Trades Assistant, or do a 2 week beginners rigging course and be ready to go.

moXJO · 28 May 2012

Junior said:
My brother is a fully trained fitter, who has worked on a few different projects over the past two years. Port Hedland on the shiploaders, gold mine near Orange, and currently working in oil and gas off the coast of Karratha. Although he has been able to get reasonably regular work, it's not easy. He has to make loads of phone calls every day to a range of businesses, he gets ignored, fobbed off, misled etc etc. It takes lots of persistance until finally they give you very short notice, 'alright your medical is tomorrow, you fly out next week.

I'm in financial services, and have considered making the big switch, to follow the money and the work. Have had extensive conversations with my brother to discuss the feasibility of it. He says they won't take anyone without experience and tickets, and even once you are trained, it's difficult to get your first FIFO job.

So although there may be 'shortages' at certain times, it seems to me there's very little proactive hiring or recruiting going on. If there was a true shortage, an intelligent, physically fit man such as myself should be able to turn up to a mine site, get a few days training and start work as a Trades Assistant, or do a 2 week beginners rigging course and be ready to go.

That is the feel of it from the people I have spoken with. Most have tried to get a foot in the door for about a year before it comes good.
I had one mate who was a security guard earning $22ish an hour get in the mines a few years back and started on about $100k. After 5 years he moved to QLD and is on $250k a year. Knowing someone seems to be the way in.

Calliope · 28 May 2012

numbercruncher said:
Im constantly reading about huge numbers of people becoming unemployed or stepped down to part time and Im sure they are keen as mustard to work ....

Michael Pascoe thinks otherwise;

And at the other, Australians prefer their local comforts and familiarities rather than moving to where the jobs are. When BlueScope halved its Port Kembla operation, skilled workers were inundated with offers of work from companies further afield, but few were willing to move.
The Hastie administration today provides immediate scary headlines about thousands of jobs lost, but being in the engineering sector, it creates the opportunity for thousands of people to be employed by other companies seeking their skills.
Some of the job offers, though, will come up against yet another Australian entitlement: someone, the government of the day presumably, is supposed to supply well-paid work where people prefer to live. A flexible, growing and restructuring economy doesn’t work like that.
Fortunately, Australia is still in a position to raid the investment other nations have made in skilled workers willing to go to where the work is.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/howe...ign-workers-20120528-1ze6y.html#ixzz1w9AmcFBL

Macquack · 28 May 2012

I hope Gina Rinehart rots in hell.

Not suprising, three of her four children agree.

jank · 28 May 2012

numbercruncher said:
Are you a POM ?

Not that it matters but no.

numbercruncher said:
Ha how does being on a 457 all of a sudden qualify you to be an expert of Australian workers ? You use things like Bogan from Western Sydney to support your flawed argument .....

Did I say I was an expert? It was an opinion, based on relevant experience. Have you ever been a migrant or a forgeiner worker in another country? (backpacking aournd UK doesnt count). Everyone here appears to be an "expert" yet no one has ever been through the process of a 457 visa.

numbercruncher said:
You said ...
"Most unemployed kiwis or Aussies will not get themselves trained up for the job or have the right attitude"
That comment borders on racism - certainly biggoted,

Aussies and Kiwis are a race now? What race are they?
A bigot? You are getting your words mixed up.

numbercruncher said:
does nothing to encourage Australians to accept immigrants like yourself .... Im constantly reading about huge numbers of people becoming unemployed or stepped down to part time and Im sure they are keen as mustard to work ....

If you read a little more the offical rate of unemployment is under 5%, that is generally regarded as full employment in macro economic terms. Just because someone got laid off from a manufacturing job in Victoria doesnt mean that that person is qualified to become an explosives engineer or a Train driver in 2 weeks time, if they are keen or not. Some sectors of the country are in a recession, well its about time because the costs are crazy in Australia.

numbercruncher said:
One point your right about is that we cant make skilled Mining Engineers overnight - but I didnt see anything about the Rinehart 1700 imports all being skilled mining Engineers ...

I think you missed the part where in total there are about 8000 people working in the project, the vast majority of them are well, you guessed it, Australians.

Starcraftmazter · 28 May 2012

Macquack said:
I hope Gina Rinehart rots in hell.

Not suprising, three of her four children agree.

I hope she (and Clive Palmer) die of a heart attack real soon. Given how fat they are, they hopefully don't have much longer to live.

Intrinsic Value · 28 May 2012

I havent read the thread so excuse me if it has already been stated.

But I have seen how the whole 457 visa scheme has been rorted in the IT sector and more specifically in major IT (SAP) projects in Australia.

A lot of the big consulting companies are at it bringing in cheap IT workers from India and SE Asia getting ridiculous charge out rates for what they term as skilled workers who they say are not available in the Australian workplace.

The fact is they dont want to pay what Australians are asking for the same positions as it will impact their ridiculous profit margins. Further in many cases the so called skilled immigrants dont even have the basic skills yet it doesnt stop them bringing them in and doesnt stop them falsifying their resumes.

I have been in the industry a long time and worked on many major SAP implementations and believe me it is a crying shame that many decent intelligent hard working Australians are being ignored for these positions.

numbercruncher · 28 May 2012

Macquack said:
I hope Gina Rinehart rots in hell.

Not suprising, three of her four children agree.

Yes certainly a reflection on the type of person she is, huge vote of no confidence from your own kids - I see her accumulating large holdings of the Media - no doubt so she can attempt to feed propaganda to the public if she isnt all ready ....

numbercruncher · 28 May 2012

jank said:
Aussies and Kiwis are a race now? What race are they?
A bigot? You are getting your words mixed up.

"The mind of a bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract." - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Enjoy your stay and enjoy your 457

JTLP · 28 May 2012

numbercruncher said:
Yes certainly a reflection on the type of person she is, huge vote of no confidence from your own kids - I see her accumulating large holdings of the Media - no doubt so she can attempt to feed propaganda to the public if she isnt all ready ....

Wishing death upon people is a bit...ummm...morbid? And sad?

You can't hate somebody for being excessively wealthy. Yes she inherited a successful co but she's also had the business nous to grow it and become the worlds wealthiest woman.

As someone put earlier - she's doing it by the book by applying to the government for the EMA. I don't know why you are whinging at her - you should be shouting down Chris Bowen (who did the RIGHT thing) and the Gillard Govt if you really cared...

numbercruncher · 28 May 2012

JTLP said:
Wishing death upon people is a bit...ummm...morbid? And sad?

You can't hate somebody for being excessively wealthy. Yes she inherited a successful co but she's also had the business nous to grow it and become the worlds wealthiest woman.

As someone put earlier - she's doing it by the book by applying to the government for the EMA. I don't know why you are whinging at her - you should be shouting down Chris Bowen (who did the RIGHT thing) and the Gillard Govt if you really cared...

Hello -

Lets get one thing straight I didnt wish death on anyone -

But like three of her kids and I imagine millions of Australians I dont like her much or the current Government that facilitating her little plan.

numbercruncher · 28 May 2012

This legendary Aussie agrees too ...

Australia's richest man, Andrew Forrest, has tacitly criticised the nation's richest woman, Gina Rinehart, for employing foreign workers instead of indigenous labour.

The Fortescue Metals Group chairman told The Australian newspaper his 'heart bleeds' when indigenous Australians are overlooked for jobs filled by employees from overseas.

Without mentioning Hancock Prospecting's Ms Rinehart by name, Mr Forrest said he hoped other mining magnates would reconsider their enthusiasm for temporary skilled migrants.

'I would say to people who look to 457 (visas): first recognise that Australia has changed and you must change with it and look first to your indigenous brothers and sisters to fill those jobs,' he told The Australian.

http://www.bigpondmoney.com.au/news/more-finance-news/forrest-slams-rinehart-on-foreign-labour

JTLP · 28 May 2012

numbercruncher said:
Hello -

Lets get one thing straight I didnt wish death on anyone -

But like three of her kids and I imagine millions of Australians I dont like her much or the current Government that facilitating her little plan.

Apologies - it was SCM - my bad

Regarding Twiggy - 'heart bleeds' is a bit rich...and how many indigenous workers could you fill with those roles? Twiggy leading with the feel good and not the logical...

Starcraftmazter · 28 May 2012

JTLP said:
Wishing death upon people is a bit...ummm...morbid? And sad?

You can't hate somebody for being excessively wealthy. Yes she inherited a successful co but she's also had the business nous to grow it and become the worlds wealthiest woman.

She didn't invent anything, she didn't build anything, she didn't fund anyone who invented or built anything, she didn't invent any groundbreaking methods of marketting or business, she didn't invest money in some super-smart way - she didn't do ****.

Except of course taking Aussie jobs offshore

There are lots of bad people in this world, nothing wrong at all with wishing them a speedy death.

JTLP · 28 May 2012

Starcraftmazter said:
She didn't invent anything, she didn't build anything, she didn't fund anyone who invented or built anything, she didn't invent any groundbreaking methods of marketting or business, she didn't invest money in some super-smart way - she didn't do ****.

Except of course taking Aussie jobs offshore

There are lots of bad people in this world, nothing wrong at all with wishing them a speedy death.

Pretty sure a lot of wealthy people fit your description - do you wish them ill health?

2 things (I know you're trolling but I'll continue):
1 - Why do you care about Australia if you continually bag it out and supposedly are off to Singapore?
2 - She didn't take any jobs offshore - infact if anyone did it was the Government by signing the EMA - bear in mind that without them signing the EMA then NO jobs would have been created as Roy Hill could not have got the investment behind it.

Oh well life is rosy down that rabbit hole hey?

Starcraftmazter · 28 May 2012

JTLP said:
Pretty sure a lot of wealthy people fit your description - do you wish them ill health?

Everyone should earn and deserve everything they have. If they didn't, then they are bad people.

JTLP said:
2 things (I know you're trolling but I'll continue):

That's a pretty arbitrary accusation. If you fancy me a troll, I'd rather not discuss things with you.

JTLP said:
1 - Why do you care about Australia if you continually bag it out and supposedly are off to Singapore?

I like Australia as a country, I bag the crappy governments which continue to ruin it. Do you think anyone ever wants to leave their country of residence? I would much rather Australia become a freedom, liberty, democracy and capitalism loving nation. A libertarian paradise. But that ain't happening anytime soon - is it?

JTLP said:
2 - She didn't take any jobs offshore - infact if anyone did it was the Government by signing the EMA - bear in mind that without them signing the EMA then NO jobs would have been created as Roy Hill could not have got the investment behind it.

Nobody is forcing her to hire people from overseas. If I was an Australian businessman, not to mention one of the richest people in the country, there's no way in hell I would ever offshore with 9% unemployment (Roy Morgan). It is simply immoral.

EMA is not the government paying business money or giving them any incentive to hire overseas workers - it is merely allowing them to do so. Still, I do not disagree that it is clear our government is utterly corrupt because there is no justification for said agreement.

I find it highly ludicrous how they claim that there aren't enough construction workers at a time when construction firms are going bankrupt due to lack of work.

Julia · 28 May 2012

jank said:
Did I say I was an expert? It was an opinion, based on relevant experience. Have you ever been a migrant or a forgeiner worker in another country? (backpacking aournd UK doesnt count). Everyone here appears to be an "expert" yet no one has ever been through the process of a 457 visa.

I'm sure many of us did appreciate your post giving the actual experience of someone coming here on a 457 visa, jank. Good luck to you.

Starcraftmazter said:
I hope she (and Clive Palmer) die of a heart attack real soon. Given how fat they are, they hopefully don't have much longer to live.

numbercruncher said:
Yes certainly a reflection on the type of person she is, huge vote of no confidence from your own kids - I see her accumulating large holdings of the Media - no doubt so she can attempt to feed propaganda to the public if she isnt all ready ....

How pathetic of you both. You can't find anything legitimate to level at Ms Reinhardt so wish her ill health.
NC, you are in no position to have any understanding of the components of the Reinhardt family's relationships. For all you know, she may have more than adequate reason to in fact make a vote of no confidence in her children rather than necessarily the other way around.
Just because someone is a blood relative does not automatically confer on them sensible or loyal behaviour.

JTLP said:
Wishing death upon people is a bit...ummm...morbid? And sad?

You can't hate somebody for being excessively wealthy. Yes she inherited a successful co but she's also had the business nous to grow it and become the worlds wealthiest woman.

As someone put earlier - she's doing it by the book by applying to the government for the EMA. I don't know why you are whinging at her - you should be shouting down Chris Bowen (who did the RIGHT thing) and the Gillard Govt if you really cared...

Exactly.
Seems like the same old tall poppy syndrome alive in well from The Left.

Macquack said:
I hope Gina Rinehart rots in hell.

Not suprising, three of her four children agree.

See above.

Calliope · 28 May 2012

Julia said:
Seems like the same old tall poppy syndrome alive in well from The Left.

Yes. Class warfare and the politics of envy are alive and well among the pathetic losers on this thread.

Importing Migrant Workers

numbercruncher

Beware of Dropbears

moXJO

menace to society

Junior

moXJO

menace to society

Calliope

Macquack

jank

Starcraftmazter

Intrinsic Value

numbercruncher

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JTLP

numbercruncher

Beware of Dropbears

numbercruncher

Beware of Dropbears

JTLP

Starcraftmazter

JTLP

Starcraftmazter

Julia

In Memoriam

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