Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first base

BBand · 9 March 2008

Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas

Since retiring, I've had time to reflect ------

Does having a Uni Degree restrict your entrepeneurial opportunities and making real money?
i.e. having a degree, and the time,effort and study involved in obtaining it, more or less sets your destiny.

Having good qualifications along with experience more or less guarantees you an above average income.

However, it also sets tram lines within which we operate.

Would you have the foresight to give up your well paid job to take on say Techs mowing round? - you would have to be street smart to take that on.

Probably 99% of professional people will never make real money.

As I said earlier, I have always earned "good" money - but was always restricted to top dollar due to the going rate for the job xxx$/time

Also we have had a good life style and I did not care too much about saving for a rainy day as I knew I could always make more.

When I was working, I did a bit of trading on the side.
Pity I did not make trading my main source of income and retire to some exotic location and pass my time of day hitting the buy/sell buttons

Its not that hard to take money consistently from the market - its keeping it thats the problem

Trade what you see - not what you want!!

We still have a comfortable lifestyle and if I had my time again, I would still live life to the max. and spend as we go

I would never have been super rich - whats the point?

I earned more than my parents, and my kids from what I see are earning at least as much as I did - thats life!

Peter

tech/a · 10 March 2008

Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas

In the examples presented above the common denominator/s in placing Joe Average in a position to get to first base (create a decient capital base) in fact to set a foundation for better than average financial security is.

Entrepreneurship.
Innovation.
Creativity.
Control of Their our/own DESTINY.

There are those who will work for money all their life and those who will find ways for money to work for them.

Anyone can be average most of the population are eminently qualified.

tech/a · 10 March 2008

Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas

First base hints while developing the above as I think of them,sorry a bit disjointed.

(1) Reduce and avoid debt.
(2) Do what you love--even if thats study.
(3) Work with Passion.
(4) Choose who you work for with more care than they use to choose you.
(5) Negotiate reward for over achievement.
(6) Dont be afraid of taking quantified risk--particularly early in your career---you have nothing to lose literally.
(7) Learn and APPLY the Pereto Principal in all you do.--(Google it)
(8) Learn all you can about RISK and how to mitigate it in all you do.
(9) Save---salary sacrifice--you'll be suprised what you can live on ---ask any Uni Student!
(10) Learn balance in life there will come a time when you will be able to apply it!
(11) Many will recognise opportunity,Few will know what to do with it,and hardly any will take advantage of it.
(12) If your told it cant be done---he who is telling you probably cant!
(13) You get one shot at this life---dont stuff it up.--dare to be different.
(14) Listen to everyones story---you'll be suprised what you learn.
(15) Seek Mentors and become a friend.
(16) Minimise the control others have on your Financial outcomes.
(17) If it takes more than 30 min to devise then its not worth further investigation---KISS.

Enjoy.

wayneL · 10 March 2008

Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas

julius said:
The Million Dollar Homepage is a website conceived by Alex Tew, a then 21-year-old student from Cricklade, Wiltshire, England to help raise money for his university education.

The index page of the site consists of a 1000×1000 pixel grid (one million pixels), on which image-based links were sold for US $1 per pixel, in minimum ten by ten blocks. The purchasers of these pixel blocks provided tiny images to be displayed on them, a URL to which they were linked, and a slogan displayed when hovering the cursor over the link. The aim of the site was to sell all of the pixels in the image, thus generating one million dollars of income for the creator.

On January 1, 2006, the final 1,000 pixels left were put up for auction on eBay.[2] The auction closed on January 11 with a winning bid of $38,100.00, bringing the final tally to $1,037,100 USD in gross income.

http://www.milliondollarhomepage.com/

That's what you call out of the box, in the box thinking. $1,000,000 for a box of ads! Fantastic.

trinity · 10 March 2008

Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas

(1) Reduce and avoid debt.
(2) Do what you love--even if thats study.
(3) Work with Passion.
(4) Choose who you work for with more care than they use to choose you.
(5) Negotiate reward for over achievement.
(6) Dont be afraid of taking quantified risk--particularly early in your career---you have nothing to lose literally.
(7) Learn and APPLY the Pereto Principal in all you do.--(Google it)
(8) Learn all you can about RISK and how to mitigate it in all you do.
(9) Save---salary sacrifice--you'll be suprised what you can live on ---ask any Uni Student!
(10) Learn balance in life there will come a time when you will be able to apply it!
(11) Many will recognise opportunity,Few will know what to do with it,and hardly any will take advantage of it.
(12) If your told it cant be done---he who is telling you probably cant!
(13) You get one shot at this life---dont stuff it up.--dare to be different.
(14) Listen to everyones story---you'll be suprised what you learn.
(15) Seek Mentors and become a friend.
(16) Minimise the control others have on your Financial outcomes.
(17) If it takes more than 30 min to devise then its not worth further investigation---KISS.

tech/a, I enjoy the wisdom that you guys impart. Thank you.

I'd like to add one to your list, which is in addition to point#9. Buy only what you NEED, not what you WANT. Learn how to distinguish between a WANT and a NEED.

mikat · 11 March 2008

Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas

to make money in the stock market requires what min capital ?
everyone has an idea , and theer are 100,000' s of investors in the market, but of the full time traders, who rely on the income to live off, what capital is required.

this would be the first step in working out how to get past first base.

you have to set a goal. think of the analogy of throwing a ball. you are holding a ball and want to throw it over a fence some distance away.
do you A) close your eyes, spin around and just throw in any direction
B) take aim, work out how hard you need to throw and let loose with all youve got in the right direction.

success is all about taking option B.
the trouble is though that sometimes after taking B, and hitting your target, ie you get over the fence. that you also lose the ball, and have to start over again with a new ball.

money is extremely easy to get and make. money is very hard to hold onto.
ask Eddie Groves. he has gone from being worth approx $200m to worth only a few $m in a matter of weeks.
if i had every dollar that ive lost in bad decisions, i wouldnt have to work again, but that also makes you more determined.

so how do you get the ball? unless you are lucky enough to win, inherit, find, or steal the capital, you have to work . set down a savings plan and either A) be conservative, save for many years and use that capital later in life, or B) save a little at a time, and leverage that money in the market to get a boost.

Timmy · 11 March 2008

Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas

I thought this might be an interesting thread ... but wow, the stories of lateral thinking & execution/application, the common and uncommon sense - this thread is getting better and better! Really great stuff thank-you everyone.

MRC & Co · 11 March 2008

Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas

Good list tech.

But what does 17 mean? If what takes 30 minutes to devise?

MRC & Co · 11 March 2008

Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas

wayneL said:
That's what you call out of the box, in the box thinking. $1,000,000 for a box of ads! Fantastic.

ha ha ha, I reckon!

Incredible! Thats most definately thinking out of the box!

nioka · 11 March 2008

Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas

The concentration of thought with the contributors to this thread seems to be "how to get there in a hurry". That is not the name of the game. For the young there is plenty of time. If you are young you DO NOT NEED a great capital base. You just need patience. All you need for a capital base is $1000.
The hardest $1000 you will ever have to save is the first one. Save it, invest it wisely without too much risk and add 10% of your income each month to the pool and you will make all you will ever need in this short life time. Why hurry and risk spoiling the party.

mikat · 11 March 2008

Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas

your making the assumption that the person investing wants to work a job their whole life to fund a retirement. if your goal is to quit your job working for somebody else, and live off the stock market , then you need a large base capital to work with. i would suggest approx $50,000. its not about getting there in a hurry, its about having enough capital to sustain a healthy income.

nioka said:
The concentration of thought with the contributors to this thread seems to be "how to get there in a hurry". That is not the name of the game. For the young there is plenty of time. If you are young you DO NOT NEED a great capital base. You just need patience. All you need for a capital base is $1000.
The hardest $1000 you will ever have to save is the first one. Save it, invest it wisely without too much risk and add 10% of your income each month to the pool and you will make all you will ever need in this short life time. Why hurry and risk spoiling the party.

nioka · 11 March 2008

Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas

mikat said:
your making the assumption that the person investing wants to work a job their whole life to fund a retirement. if your goal is to quit your job working for somebody else, and live off the stock market , then you need a large base capital to work with. i would suggest approx $50,000. its not about getting there in a hurry, its about having enough capital to sustain a healthy income.

The simple answer to that is to find a job you like to do. Surely there is one out there somewhere. I have a fishing mate that won't retire because he likes his job too much and I reckon a bad day's fishing is better that a good day at work.

freddy2 · 11 March 2008

Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas

mikat said:
your making the assumption that the person investing wants to work a job their whole life to fund a retirement. if your goal is to quit your job working for somebody else, and live off the stock market , then you need a large base capital to work with. i would suggest approx $50,000. its not about getting there in a hurry, its about having enough capital to sustain a healthy income.

You are off by a factor of 10. To live off the stock market you need about $500000. With only $50000 you would need to consistantly make 8% per month to have an average standard of living. If this was possible, there would be 1000's of people with more capital who would be making billions and this clearly isn't happening. 8% per month compounded for 10 years will turn $1 into $10000.

Trembling Hand · 11 March 2008

Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas

freddy2 said:
You are off by a factor of 10. To live off the stock market you need about $500000. With only $50000 you would need to consistantly make 8% per month to have an average standard of living. If this was possible, there would be 1000's of people with more capital who would be making billions and this clearly isn't happening. 8% per month compounded for 10 years will turn $1 into $10000.

If you are an investor sure but if you are a day trader especially a futures trader you need nothing like that amount. $50,000 for an experienced trader would be fine. Only catch is to get to be an experienced trader you are probably going to blow a $50,000 account a couple of times over

freddy2 · 11 March 2008

Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas

Trembling Hand said:
If you are an investor sure but if you are a day trader especially a futures trader you need nothing like that amount. $50,000 for an experienced trader would be fine. Only catch is to get to be an experienced trader you are probably going to blow a $50,000 account a couple of times over

How actively you trade doesn't change the math, you are still saying it is possible to consistantly make 8% per month.

Wysiwyg · 11 March 2008

Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas

I like the fish connection.Some are allowed to slip through the net while most of us are targeted for consumption.Are your finances monitored and regulated?

I know...cause i`ve been targeted and no matter where i turn, each escape route is blocked.

Trembling Hand · 11 March 2008

Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas

freddy2 said:
How actively you trade doesn't change the math, you are still saying it is possible to consistantly make 8% per month.

What I am saying is many successful traders take consistent $$ out of the market by trading a couple of contracts at a time. That requires no more than $15,000 margin. This argument that people always bring up about compounding returns at a certain amount per month is rubbish. My aim is not to compound $50,000 at 5% to 10% per month for 10 years, My aim is to take money out of the market every day trading a couple of contracts that is how I pay the bills.

nizar · 11 March 2008

Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas

freddy2 said:
You are off by a factor of 10. To live off the stock market you need about $500000. With only $50000 you would need to consistantly make 8% per month to have an average standard of living. If this was possible, there would be 1000's of people with more capital who would be making billions and this clearly isn't happening. 8% per month compounded for 10 years will turn $1 into $10000.

What is possible to the 5% is much different to what is possible for the masses.

Trade frequency actually makes a huge difference, and can turn a mediocre expectancy system into a money making machine.

MRC & Co · 11 March 2008

Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas

Out of interest Nizar (BTW, I thought I noticed on your blogs that some prices of your stocks were actually below the stop, why is this?), wouldnt trade frequency really just help limit risk? A form of diversification or hedging if you will.

Further, leverage increased risk, for example, if you had 15k + leverage, if you were stopped out on a few consecutive trades would end up with no capital base? Any % based stop is sure to be a far larger % of your capital base. So you had better make profits quick! I mean one futures position held overnight could mean a margin call. Not saying leverage is a bad thing, as I am planning on using it in the future, but it is of course, far more risky and can lead you in one direction a lot quicker!

Compounding rates of return are a powerful, poweful thing! Good on you for trading full-time though TH, I have been doing it also now for a couple months and will continue for AT LEAST a couple more!

wayneL · 11 March 2008

Re: Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first bas

Trembling Hand said:
What I am saying is many successful traders take consistent $$ out of the market by trading a couple of contracts at a time. That requires no more than $15,000 margin. This argument that people always bring up about compounding returns at a certain amount per month is rubbish. My aim is not to compound $50,000 at 5% to 10% per month for 10 years, My aim is to take money out of the market every day trading a couple of contracts that is how I pay the bills.

'zactly.

And those two contracts have a face value of a quarter of a million smackeroos. The notional return, lets say if you make 50k (to pluck a number out of the air), becomes 25% per year. Nothing out of the ordinary.

But because you're trading on margin, you don't need the $250k.

Simple as that really.

Ideas for establishing a capital base to begin investing - getting past first base

BBand

tech/a

No Ordinary Duck

tech/a

No Ordinary Duck

wayneL

VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!

trinity

mikat

Timmy

white swans need love too

MRC & Co

MRC & Co

nioka

mikat

nioka

freddy2

Trembling Hand

Can be found on the bid

freddy2

Wysiwyg

Everyone wants money

Trembling Hand

Can be found on the bid

nizar

MRC & Co

wayneL

VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!

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