I can afford a house

[krisbarry]

Exactly.
Your at the station waiting for the train which is on a one way track a couple of stations in front of you.

People have been waiting for pricing to be "More affordable" for Decades.

I like the above quote, I guess it depends how often or if at all that the trains run don't you think?

No point standing around at a station waiting for the trains to arrive when the tracks are warped and rusty. Build a new line, find a new path etc etc.

 

[wayneL]

Exactly.
Your at the station waiting for the train which is on a one way track a couple of stations in front of you.

People have been waiting for pricing to be "More affordable" for Decades.

Absolute rubbish! Affordability is measured via a number of vectors. A mean level can be determined thereof, whereby relative value may be determined. At the mean level or below, we can safely say that these are the times when housing is most affordable. Value tends to, and has, oscillated around this relative mean value and has done so over the last decades referred to; housing was very affordable only a few short years ago.

To say people have been "waiting for decades" is demonstrably wrong and flies in the face of logic and observation. It's a throw away line that should... be thrown away.

Complaining about something, solves nothing....the end result of complaining is that nothing gets solved anyway. Whinging and whining actually adds to the problem and causes internal and external grief. Which in turn feeds more anxiety, more fear, and more problems, and solves nothing to getting the result at which you wanted to achieve in the first place.

I am with Tech/a all the way, get out there solve the problem yourself. Find a way into the market. No matter how wierd or wacky it may be.

I know that I am doing the right thing, as so many people are passing judgement on me for doing the wrong thing. That means I am succeding!

Here is to wealth building, in whatever way, shape, or form!

The other fallacious argument... an enormous non-sequitur in fact, is that people who have made an economic decision not to buy at current valuation, are losers and whingers.

I find this curious from and amateur psychologists perspective. I think it betrays some sort of psychological pathology which I am only prepared to speculate on in private. But nevertheless, it is offensive.

Buy housing now = winner.
Defer housing purchase = loser.

... is such simplistic argument to the point of being asinine, and ignores a range of other circumstances and strategies an individual may be involved in.

e.g. I made purchases several years ago, sold one and concentrated on paying off the other two, all of these are in the UK where there were (at the time) far superior yields, and as it turns out, ludicrous capital gains. (These I have spoken of before here on the forum)

However, I prefer to NOT make any purchases in the current market and utilize my capital in other ways. Am I a loser or a whinger for stating my case? Of course not.

I wish people would just debate on the economic merits of their argument, instead of indulging in this totally puerile and amateurish schoolboy mind game.

As there appears to be no prospect of that, I'm over and out, I have boxes to pack.

 

[tech/a]

To say people have been "waiting for decades" is demonstrably wrong and flies in the face of logic and observation

Really!

So everyone has their house and or an IP or two.
There are many of those people who thought housing was expensive THEN thinking that housing is ridiculous NOW. They will be thinking exactly the same in 10 yrs time. Perhaps there is some psychology there that need be investigated for some

On Wayne's reply to Stop.

My point is look for opportunity if you haven't got one.
There aren't any there?
With your capital base and locked up capital gain I'd be suggesting exactly the same to you. Theres a severe rental shortage and sad lack of high density low cost living. (Just an inside tip

Yes your right you can invest in other things just as Stop has.
Again well done Kris. Your on your way.

I wish people would just debate on the economic merits of their argument, instead of indulging in this totally puerile and amateurish schoolboy mind game.

And you seriously think I have an ego problem.
I'm a real person not some amateur pompous snob.(Speaking of course for myself).

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

There is no "easy" way out of it from here. Will discuss a bit later.

Actually Wayne I would love to hear your thoughts on this.
I am being genuine by the way.

 

[theasxgorilla]

e.g. I made purchases several years ago, sold one and concentrated on paying off the other two, all of these are in the UK where there were (at the time) far superior yields, and as it turns out, ludicrous capital gains. (These I have spoken of before here on the forum)

And lets not forget the glorious purchasing power of the pound...you'll enjoy your eurotrips paying cents in the dollar, or should I say pence in the pound, for accomodation, dining, car hire etc. on the continent.

 

[theasxgorilla]

There are many of those people who thought housing was expensive THEN thinking that housing is ridiculous NOW. They will be thinking exactly the same in 10 yrs time.

What makes you say this tech?

Beyond the tag line, 'property always goes up'...is there some macro-eco insight you might have into why this is going to be the case in 2017??

ASX.G

 

[Julia]

I meant as a property investor who would lose money if this was implemented and I I used you as an example of a property investor which is why I said "like" as in someone who is a serious property investor who would definitely lose money.

I wrote this quickly. It was foolish in that I know you are a very feeling person and not a standard property investor and I shouldn't have used your name and I am ashamed I did.

Changing the tax laws would automatically lower rent costs and provide housing for the average family. It would also lower housing prices! For this reason it won't happen.

Oh, I see. Thanks for explaining that, Knobby. Now I understand what you were getting at and agree with what you say.

Btw, although I have had investment property that was some years ago.
I wouldn't have it at present with returns so low and so little capital gain in recent years. I guess the number of people feeling the same way is part of the reason rental stock is so limited and consequently rents rising exponentially. More and more people who will never have any chance of buying a home are now also being priced out of the rental market.

 

[robots]

hello,

i will give you part of it, Krudd 07 holding a laptop up saying everyone will have this tool,

labour shortage in the building industry is massive, material cost has increased greatly, raw materials

i believe replacement/new construction cost therefore impacts existing RE value

have friends who have left office/admin jobs, reasonable income, now working part time in building and earning double the money

property trusts/developers holding massive amounts of land, these guys have gone from paying tradies in 30-60 days to paying in 14 days

cant see much changing for a long long time

thankyou

robots

 

[Flying Fish]

hello,

i will give you part of it, Krudd 07 holding a laptop up saying everyone will have this tool,

labour shortage in the building industry is massive, material cost has increased greatly, raw materials

i believe replacement/new construction cost therefore impacts existing RE value

have friends who have left office/admin jobs, reasonable income, now working part time in building and earning double the money

property trusts/developers holding massive amounts of land, these guys have gone from paying tradies in 30-60 days to paying in 14 days

cant see much changing for a long long time

thankyou

robots

So you are suggesting that no trade qualifications are needed to work in the building industry? Does this mean anyone can walk into one of these high paid jobs?.... A little disconcerting wouldn't you think?

 

[Flying Fish]

hello,

i will give you part of it, Krudd 07 holding a laptop up saying everyone will have this tool,

labour shortage in the building industry is massive, material cost has increased greatly, raw materials

i believe replacement/new construction cost therefore impacts existing RE value

have friends who have left office/admin jobs, reasonable income, now working part time in building and earning double the money

property trusts/developers holding massive amounts of land, these guys have gone from paying tradies in 30-60 days to paying in 14 days

cant see much changing for a long long time

thankyou

robots

I agree though. Lets dumb down this country, burn all our resource shaft every piece of land, borrow to the hilt.. basicially become a nation of non-thinking robotoids. lol

 

[robots]

hello,

if you turn up, are reliable, good worker, hard worker, would eliminate all the handout crew from ASF

go for it, isnt it cashed up bogans, it definitely is

thaankyou

robots

 

[Flying Fish]

What is a bogan?

BOGAN (pronunciation boe-gn) is a term used primarily in Australia to describe a particular section of the working class demographic. This derogatory slang word is a gender-neutral noun; this being important as many bogans tend to gravitate towards one another forming relationships and extended families. A bogan family is not an uncommon phenomena in certain regions. A bogan typically resides in either a low-cost housing estate, government housing or in the outlying regional areas of continental Australia. Generally bogans tend to congregate in areas with little or no features & amenities.

Generally the bogan fits a particular stereotypical image. The perception of what actually constitutes a bogan has been shaped over the years primarily by the media; notable especially are television programs such as Channel 7's Today Tonight and Channel 9's A Current Affair . These programs regularly feature stories of harrowing boganism- including communities under siege from bogan terrorism, and bogans "rorting the system" in relation to welfare benefits and questionable practices. A number of comedy programs have also featured bogans in the past, prime examples being Kylie Mole of The Comedy Company, Poida (bogan pronunciation of the name "Peter") played by Eric Bana, and more recently Bloke Man of the Comedy Inc late shift. Eric Bana's portrayal of the character Poida gained him accolades within the industry and effectively launched his professional acting career. This is one of very few examples of extreme boganism leading to success & wealth.

So now we have a basic understanding of the bogan, we may delve further into the mysterious world of mullets and long-kneck beer bottles in brown paper bags. Traits of the bogan can be summarised by the following points:

• A pronounced lack of dress sense in social situations. Typical bogan attire consists of a flannelette shirt, King Gee stubbie shorts (either blue/khaki), torn or soiled jeans from the 1980's or earlier, and of course double-plug standard issue white thong sandals with black rubber. A bogan's dress sense is not influenced by intended destination/occasion hence the line between workwear and formal wear is often hazy at best. On rare occasions bogans may be spotted wearing enclosed shoes when entering the local RSL to "have a slap on the pokies" or to "get pissed wif me mates on the veebs (VB)". A female bogan will usually wear a matching ensemble usually consisting of second-hand fashions or products purchased from the discount retail chains Best and Less or Big W.

• A lack of personal hygiene. A bogan will often allow his/her hair to grow into an attractive style named the "mullet" as popularised in the 1980's. A hair cut is a rare event for the bogan, and most styling occurs when the razor is brought out to either a) produce a "skinhead" style cut or b) a "frullet" (front-mullet). Similar styles apply for females, however the female bogan frequently colours her hair auburn. The bogan bathroom usually contains a bar of multi-purpose soap used to both cleaning the family, washing the hair, styling the hair and manicures/pedicures. Whilst most non-bogans will use Eau de Toilette spray as a perfume, the most common boganistic fragrance is "Odour of Toilet". The bogan frequently rosters showers at irregular intervals such as once a week for males and twice for females.

• Distinct vocabulary. The bogan language is somewhat foreign to most English-speaking people. For example in boaglish, the word "shooting" would be pronounced as "shootun". Similarly, the word "look out" is pronounced as "look eet". The boaglish alphabet does not contain the letters "i" or "g", hence the pronunciation of words containing the suffix -ing are simply pronounced -un. Examples include "rootun" (rooting), "fishun" (fishing) and the common phrase "where's me ****un beer woman" (what is the current location of my alcoholic beverage dearest female partner). The boaglish vocabulary is mostly limited to frequent curse-words and miss-pronunciation of common English words. A common bogan trait also includes shortening words. Locations such as the Wyong Leagues Club become the "leaguesy", the Crown Casino becomes the "leaguesy" and females/males such as Sharon/Barry become "Shaz" and "Baz".

• A particular choice in motor vehicle. The bogan usually drives one of two makes of vehicle. Typically this is either a Holden or a Ford . Common bogan variants manufactured by each of these companies include the Holden Commodore (VB-VP models), Holden Kingswood and the Ford Falcon (all models up to the recent EF). Other well known bogan vehicles include early model Datsuns and Toyotas . Bogan accessories include anything HSV/HRT for Holdens, and FPV/FTR for Fords. These vehicles tend to be more prevalent on the roads whilst the V8 supercar races are being held. Drivers often attempt to imitate in heavy traffic their heroes Skaifey (Mark Skaife) and Ambrose (Marcos Ambrose). Bogan vehicles are rarely detailed, and are serviced even less frequently. Most bogan drivers hold animosity towards imported vehicles "farken rice" and are still bitter that the Nissan Skyline beat the Holden and Ford racing teams at Bathurst in the early 90's. Consequently, many bogans believe their VN Commodore has the ability to beat anything with the badge "Ferrari", "Nissan", "BMW M3" or "Pagani". Click here for examples of bogan vehicles.

• Choice in music. The bogan prefers either metal or pub rock. A bogan would suggest that the song Khe Sanh by Cold Chisel would be a more appropriate national anthem than Advance Australia Fair. AC/DC is also a popular choice. Anything Barnesy. Midnight Oil is another classic example of the bogan genre.

• Employment status. The common bogan is either a) not employed or b) a tradesman/labourer. A bogan employee can be spotted kitted up in a fluorescent vest or polo shirt. Unemployed bogans often frequent RSL's/clubs for discount lunches during the day, before continuing on to the local Centrelink office to receive the hard-earned cash of the tax-paying public. This will be followed by a journey to the most convenient bottle shop ("bottlo") to purchase 2x24 cartons ("slabs") of Victoria Bitter ("Veebs") for $60. Also included in this purchase is the all-important packet of Winfield Reds ("Smokes"). The rest of this pension money is budgeted towards the "pokies" at the local pub.

• A poorly-maintained house or unit. As previously mentioned, the bogan often resides in regions of a lower socio-economic standing. Basically, in most cases the bogan is located some way inland from a coastal fringe or major waterway. In the case of Sydney, this has lead to the term "westie" being coined in order to distinguish the boganistic population of the inland western suburbs from the more affluent residents of the east. In the case of NSW/QLD and Victoria, the majority of bogans are located on or west of the Great Dividing Range. Whilst this is not always the case, it is important to note that the concentration of bogans per capita is somewhat higher in these areas. The bogan house usually consists of a number of elements (see below):

1. The bedroom (for rootun).
2. The balcony (for smokun/shootun).
3. The livun room (for watchun telly/smokun/gettun pissed).
4. The kitchen (for storun beer).
5. The combined bathroom/laundry (for washun ****) .
6. The shed (for rootun/smokun/shootun/gettun pissed/storun beer/workun on the commo).

All-in-all the bogan is seen as a top bloke by his mates, but is a menace to the rest of society. Our bogan awareness campaign aims to expose the secrets of the bogan by delving into previously uncharted territory.... n ****

 

[tech/a]

What makes you say this tech?

Beyond the tag line, 'property always goes up'...is there some macro-eco insight you might have into why this is going to be the case in 2017??

ASX.G

Much in this thread to reply to.
ASX
I agree with others here that there is always a shortage of housing and always a shortage of trades.
Government regulates supply in release of land for developement.
No land no housing industry.Squeeze available land quell demand and increase house prices.Release land and the opposite.
Of course regulation of demand can also be gained through slowing growth (In all sectors) by increasing interest rates.

House prices dont come off just the affordability. Which is what Wayne and some others are alluding to. Current affordability isnt far off the Norm or median.



Note the greatest influence on affordability is the Interest rate bubble in the 80s.
Look at the opportunity for Perth and Adelaide back in 2005.

So in answer to ASX.
Government will regulate both availability and Interest rates.
The trade situation wont get any better.
Demand will NOT decrease,but there will be fluctuations from time to time.
Infact those fluctuations are likely to be to the up side.

Dont forget australia has such a small population and such an enormous potential to meet this massive demand for rescources. We arent going to answer this challenge solely from within.Population has to grow from outside and with it an increase of demand not seen.
The flow through effect on business throughout Australia will be enormous and the knock on effect will be felt in wages,inflation and affordability of most everything not just limited to housing.

In 10 yrs time in fact far less.
Now will be seen as the greatest time for opportunity.
As will 3 yrs time as was 3 yrs ago.

Affordability will ebb and flow but the asset it self will remain high in demand and as difficult to break into now as it was then and will be in the future.

Take a look at the graph above.
Take Sydney in 89 Affordability 80% of the wage.
What were house prices then and what are they now.
Had you found a way to afford property even at the worst time in that graph and held it today the % of wage NOW in that same property would be very very small.Yet the gain is enormous.(Worse case shown as the example).Pain then pleasure 10 yrs later and hardship deminished in a few years.
We arent there now

So you are suggesting that no trade qualifications are needed to work in the building industry? Does this mean anyone can walk into one of these high paid jobs?.... A little disconcerting wouldn't you think?

Pretty well.
You only need the principal to hold the liciencing.Supervisory staff are the hardest to find.Labourers are on $20-$30/hr working in my company an average of 50 hrs a week. I still need more!
Training comes from within,I cant just advertise and have workers fully trained in civil construction answering ads!
Its not going to get any easier,has been the same for 25 yrs,I had the same complaints then as now. Disconcerning--you bet. Not just from a consumer view but for those involved in satisfying the demand---the employers.

property trusts/developers holding massive amounts of land, these guys have gone from paying tradies in 30-60 days to paying in 14 days

Never a truer word spoken.
We DEMAND 14 days. If we dont get it you dont get us.
I wont quote figures for fear of being labelled an egotisit AGAIN.
But we price Massive amounts of work and are very selective on what we even price. If its NOT cream we wont even look at it.Our hit rate is terrible (29%) but we are at full capacity and increase our construction crews regularly to attempt to meet demand. We could be far more competitive as could our competition but none of us need to.

 

[Kathmandu]

Oh, I see. Thanks for explaining that, Knobby. Now I understand what you were getting at and agree with what you say.

Btw, although I have had investment property that was some years ago.
I wouldn't have it at present with returns so low and so little capital gain in recent years. I guess the number of people feeling the same way is part of the reason rental stock is so limited and consequently rents rising exponentially. More and more people who will never have any chance of buying a home are now also being priced out of the rental market.

I take it that that would be from a Sydney point of view (other parts of the nation have and still are experiencing spectacular cap growth )

If thats the case there is plenty of affordable accomadation in Western Sydney,($250-$300k) just people choose not to live there.

I'm not sure if there is an affordability crisis, more an asspirational crisis

Dave

 

[Flying Fish]

Btw, although I have had investment property that was some years ago.
I wouldn't have it at present with returns so low and so little capital gain in recent years. I guess the number of people feeling the same way is part of the reason rental stock is so limited and consequently rents rising exponentially. More and more people who will never have any chance of buying a home are now also being priced out of the rental market.

So if one cant afford to buy cant afford to rent, where are all these people living./ going. How many housing commision houses does the government have? Anyone got an idea? I also heard you could buy commisioin houses.

 

[robots]

hello,

seems to be the case kathmandu, penthouse in the sky first up

artilce today:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22624505-25658,00.html

just interesting that housing starts so low yet wages in construction and worker shortgage so great

steady as she goes for a long time

thankyou

robots

 

[Flying Fish]

CPI 3.1 ... Is this good?

 

[robots]

hello,

perfect

thankyou

robots

 

[Julia]

Btw, although I have had investment property that was some years ago.
I wouldn't have it at present with returns so low and so little capital gain in recent years. I guess the number of people feeling the same way is part of the reason rental stock is so limited and consequently rents rising exponentially. More and more people who will never have any chance of buying a home are now also being priced out of the rental market.

So if one cant afford to buy cant afford to rent, where are all these people living./ going. How many housing commision houses does the government have? Anyone got an idea? I also heard you could buy commisioin houses.

Flying Fish,

The first paragraph of your post is a direct quote from one of my previous posts. It's fine for you to reply to something I have said, but unless you click on "Quote" at the bottom right of the post which will bring up my previous post in Italics and make it clear what I have said and what you have said, then please don't just copy it so that it appears to all be what you are saying.

You haven't even put quotation marks around my words, neither have you referred to it being a quote from anyone at all!!!

In answer to your question: there are simply a growing number of homeless people, people living in grotty caravan parks instead of houses/apartments, living with relatives, or spending the money on rent but being unable to buy enough food/petrol/clothing/prescription charges etc. An additional difficulty is the rising cost of utilities (electricity/gas etc).
If you are getting an unemployment benefit of about $200 p.w. and rent is almost that, there simply isn't enough to live on.

 

[Flying Fish]

Flying Fish,

The first paragraph of your post is a direct quote from one of my previous posts. It's fine for you to reply to something I have said, but unless you click on "Quote" at the bottom right of the post which will bring up my previous post in Italics and make it clear what I have said and what you have said, then please don't just copy it so that it appears to all be what you are saying.

You haven't even put quotation marks around my words, neither have you referred to it being a quote from anyone at all!!!

In answer to your question: there are simply a growing number of homeless people, people living in grotty caravan parks instead of houses/apartments, living with relatives, or spending the money on rent but being unable to buy enough food/petrol/clothing/prescription charges etc. An additional difficulty is the rising cost of utilities (electricity/gas etc).
If you are getting an unemployment benefit of about $200 p.w. and rent is almost that, there simply isn't enough to live on.

Oh I am sorry. I forgot the quotes, but by reading the post one would have gleaned that I was quoting someone else, given that the two paragraphs did not string together.