Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

How to learn about options...

wayneL

VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!
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...or anything, for that matter.

Broadly, there are 4 stages people move through as they learn about something, in this case because it is in the derivatives forum, options.

1/ Unconscious Incompetent
2/ Conscious Incompetent
3/ Conscious Competent
4/ Unconscious Competent

1/ Unconscious Incompetent

This is the stage where you don't know anything. You don't even know what you don't know. Propbably most people who attempt to trade options never actually get out of this stage before quitting, having had their @rse handed to them on a platter.

Amazingly, there are a lot of options courses out there that don't take their students anywhere past this stage. In fact, I know of several that actively DIScourage folks from further learning, with the catchcry of KISS. To avoid the possibility of spending the next several years as a litigant, said educators shall remain nameless :rolleyes:

2/ Conscious Incompetent

This is the stage where you realise you know nothing, and if you have any capital left you go about the process of learning. (you can always try to get a refund from J..... oops better not say :D )

This is a difficult stage to be in, because all option educators claim to be exclusive purveyors of truth and option enlightenment, and because you are still an incompetent, you are not able to discern the truth from the NLP laden marketing.

A great start is to read the several tomes that are almost universally recommended by long term survivors of option trading.

From novice to advanced;
Options by Guy Bower
Options as a Strategic Investment by Larry McMillan
Options Volatility and Pricing by Sheldon Natenburg

These are all available from Joe's bookshop

In addition, I like
Trading Options to Win by SA Johnston (available from Joe)
Options: The Hidden Reality by Charles Cottle (available from www.riskdoctor.com)

There are a couple of good courses around as well, but the absolutey best one is still in development :D

3/ Conscious Competent

The transition to this stage is gradual and a grey area. Competency will arrive, but you will still be thinking about all the factors conciously, and you may still be incompetent in certain areas where you will have to refer back to your books, course materials and/or mentor.

I think the transition from stage 2 to stage three is; and is best viewed as as an oscillation process. You will find yourself clear on one concept, and fuzzy on another. Clarification on a new concept, could make you fuzzy on something you thought you were clear on.

You are not dumb! This is normal! If you immerse yourself in it, get comfortable with the lingo, talk the lingo at every opportunity eventually you will get competent. At this point you will be well on the way to being the....

4/ Unconscious Competent

This is the point where most things are second nature. If someone is speaking "greek" you will understand without having to think about it. There are always areas where you have to revert back to the "concious" stage, particularly if something is outside of your normal approach or style, or even a different instrument. (eg index options skew to the downside whereas many commodity options skew to the upside.

But generally you act without having to think to hard. This can only come with time and lots of trading... and of course survival.

Hope it helps.
 
I was going to post this to happytrader in the other thread, but it's probably more appropriate here...

That's what intrigues me about options. I don't understand much of the lingo in this thread, but I'm sure in a year or even a few months from now I'll be able to participate in such conversations. I only have to look at other areas that I've self-developed skills in where to the unitiated, conversations like the one in this thread appear to be in a foreign language.

Once you learn something fairly complex, other areas will still seem quite intimidating at first, but you'll know that it can be learnt and it only takes indepth study and experience - or time and effort.
 
It would certainly help people trying to learn options to have a site which gave implied volatility (charts) and the greeks on Oz options - at a reasonable cost.

They would get my patronage.

Cheers

Dutchie
 
Thanks for that Wayne - very nifty.

Why can't the ASX do as the CBOT - I'm sure it would pay off for them with greater turnover etc.

Cheers

Dutchie
 
Just emailed ASX in regard to supplying IV and Greeks in downloadable form.

Others might like to do same to mount pressure.

Cheers

Dutchie
 
Reply from ASX:

"We have a project to do exactly that however it is approx. 12 months
away."


Cheers

Dutchie
 
Really informative OP thanks wayneL.

Dutchie, any progress reports from the ASX re your query?
 
Timmy,
While I'm mindful not to blatantly plug my own site, you should find this site useful. It provides the IV's & greeks you are looking for.

http://www.impliedvolatility.com.au

Here is the most recent 90 day BHP IV/HV chart. IV's are getting up towards uncharted territory.

BHP90.gif


cheers
 
A great start is to read the several tomes that are almost universally recommended by long term survivors of option trading.

From novice to advanced;
Options by Guy Bower
Options as a Strategic Investment by Larry McMillan
Options Volatility and Pricing by Sheldon Natenburg

These are all available from Joe's bookshop

In addition, I like
Trading Options to Win by SA Johnston (available from Joe)
Options: The Hidden Reality by Charles Cottle (available from www.riskdoctor.com)
I have quite a lot of dollar value held in free carried shares and am wanting to write options on them, as I don't want to sell them, but do want to earn some money off them. So I'm looking to write options over them.

Over the next 2 weeks on holidays (terrible timing I know), I'm looking to read two books on the subject. 'The Secret of Writing Options' by Louise Bedford and 'The Art of Options Trading in Australia' by Chris Tate, both raided from the Dad's library. I'm not sure how much value the second will have for writing options, but I'm hoping all this will tie into my long term goal in this bear market of being literate and competent in all things options.

So Wayne, and anyone else, I'm wondering if that will be sufficient for learning about writing options. And if not, what else would you recommend for that side of thing?

I will get onto those other books after I am done. Thanks a heap. :)
 
I have quite a lot of dollar value held in free carried shares and am wanting to write options on them, as I don't want to sell them, but do want to earn some money off them. So I'm looking to write options over them.

Over the next 2 weeks on holidays (terrible timing I know), I'm looking to read two books on the subject. 'The Secret of Writing Options' by Louise Bedford and 'The Art of Options Trading in Australia' by Chris Tate, both raided from the Dad's library. I'm not sure how much value the second will have for writing options, but I'm hoping all this will tie into my long term goal in this bear market of being literate and competent in all things options.

So Wayne, and anyone else, I'm wondering if that will be sufficient for learning about writing options. And if not, what else would you recommend for that side of thing?

I will get onto those other books after I am done. Thanks a heap. :)
They're probably ok as primers, but would definitely move on to McMillans book. It will include a lot of stuff you don't want to know right now, but will help in your total understanding.

With your academic background, it should be an easy, even though lengthy read.
 
Man, options are a confusing topic to get my head around and apparently the book I am reading is the easy version :confused:

Have any of you read "Get Rich with OPTIONS" by Lee Lowell? And any comments/opinions on it?

Ive just begun, so as these terms and concepts sink in it should be a lot easier, but for now, Im definately at the incompetent incompetent phase! If that exists! ;)

I also bought "CHART TRADING" by Daryl Guppy to learn a bit about technical analysis. Need to build on my all-around knowledge of these fields as I will be working with one of the big investment banks soon.

Currently I am a buff on Fundamental analysis, stocks and economics, but thats about as far as my skills take me!
 
I flicked through it at the book shop.

It's OK. A bit hyped up, I mean the title is a put off straight away, but it is not badly written for what it is.

The book details four strategies which generally are the bread and butter of some option traders, but it is incomplete in that it doesn't cover the greeks extensively or even mention other low risk strategies. This may be OK for a kick off into options, but you really need to know the complete picture.

Don't worry though, it's confusing to everybody at the beginning. Take your time in learning it all, and it does take a bit of time to get your head around.

Not a bad one for the bookshelf, but one of the more serious textbooks is an absolute must in the long run... e.g. McMillan's Options as a strategic investment.
 
Excellent, I will make sure I read and re-read this one to get my head around the basics before I even begin to understand the more complex books!

What do you trade the most and find makes you the best returns? Is it through simple stocks or do you prefer options?

Thanks Wayne, I have to go back and read the first couple chapters again now, just to get the basics downpat so I dont have to conciously think of what he is talking about when he throws out all the lingo!
 
What do you trade the most and find makes you the best returns? Is it through simple stocks or do you prefer options?

It depends what I'm trying to do.

If I just want a straight out directional, short term trade, most of the time, the basic share or future is hard to beat... unless there is some unacceptable black swan risk lurking about, or I think the options are really cheap (in volatility terms).

An example is that I would never go to bed with a straight out short on gold or oil because of the possibility of an account destroying spike to the upside. Likewise, being long the stock market carries humungous black swan risk.

These are situations where options are ideal to limit risk.

Also with options you have the flexibility to trade the individual greeks if I have a view on them e.g. going long on vega/gamma etc

Don't worry if that is double dutch at the moment, it sinks in over time.

If I can put it this way, options are better for more strategic type trades, whereas stocks/futures are better for little mercenary forays, long term trend trading systems and buy and hold.
 
Thanks heaps Wayne. That makes pretty good sense. In a time like now, with such high volatility, do you think options are by far the best method of trading?

Its exciting learning it all at first, but like when I first begun economics over 10 years ago, it takes a long time to sink in to be able to just grasp the concepts!

Back to my book!
 
Quick question,

For whoever trades options on stocks on the ASX, what do you use as your options calculator and where do you find the stocks volatility %? Also, what do you use as your probability calculator?

Do you use free or paid websites to calculate these things for you? Or a software program you pay for and install on your computer?

The free sites which provide options calculators or probability calculators look a little dodgy and I cant find anywhere which calculates an options chain or volatility in which you can see if there is a skew.

Cheers

Matt

P.S Hope this makes sense, ha ha, Im still getting used to these terms!
 
Quick question,

For whoever trades options on stocks on the ASX, what do you use as your options calculator and where do you find the stocks volatility %? Also, what do you use as your probability calculator?

Do you use free or paid websites to calculate these things for you? Or a software program you pay for and install on your computer?

The free sites which provide options calculators or probability calculators look a little dodgy and I cant find anywhere which calculates an options chain or volatility in which you can see if there is a skew.

Cheers

Matt


P.S Hope this makes sense, ha ha, Im still getting used to these terms!

Hi Matt - have traded ASX options for about five years and have used the tools from the Hoadley site: http://www.hoadley.net/options/options.htm. A wealth of info in there incl. plenty of demos. He puts out a free version of the Options Strategy Evaluation Tool with restricted functions - but to get the add-in was $99 last time I paid for it.

My Oz broker uses WebIress for trading options and that also has IV charts (just type the code+IV in a chart window eg. BHPIV). A link to a demo of WebIress can be found on this web page: http://www.traderdealer.com.au/how-we-do-it/web-iress.php

Then, more recently, an ASF forum member VolTracker has started a website with a lot of relevant ASX options data - http://www.impliedvolatility.com.au/index.htm

Hope this helps!
 
G'day WayneL

"Don't worry if that is double dutch at the moment, it sinks in over time."

Its triple dutch for me :confused:

Cheers

Dutchie
 
Hi Matt - have traded ASX options for about five years and have used the tools from the Hoadley site: http://www.hoadley.net/options/options.htm. A wealth of info in there incl. plenty of demos. He puts out a free version of the Options Strategy Evaluation Tool with restricted functions - but to get the add-in was $99 last time I paid for it.

My Oz broker uses WebIress for trading options and that also has IV charts (just type the code+IV in a chart window eg. BHPIV). A link to a demo of WebIress can be found on this web page: http://www.traderdealer.com.au/how-we-do-it/web-iress.php

Then, more recently, an ASF forum member VolTracker has started a website with a lot of relevant ASX options data - http://www.impliedvolatility.com.au/index.htm

Hope this helps!

Thanks sails,

I will take a look at them. Damn that impliedvolatility website must have taken some time to make for one member! But it looks like as it develops, it could really be something!

Hoadley does look like a good site also!
 
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