House prices to keep rising for years

[MACCA350]

That wasn't the cheapest POS I could find, It's a good qualty starter home Ideal for a young couple

"Average included 2 kids last I checked"

What I am saying is that it is not logical these days to expect a family should automatically be able to afford a house and land close to the city

"build on the OUTSKIRTS of Melb North and West"

Trouble is most people want to start where their parents have finished and rather than save and plan to get into somthing small, They rent over their budject and complain about the market.

You're tarring every FHB with a wide brush there, not everyone thinks that way............and besides were not talking about the big end of town here.....
"once again these are the CHEAP end of the market"

As I said earlier though, you want land, move out of the city,.. Australia is huge plenty of land out there.

Do you only skim posts?
"build on the OUTSKIRTS of Melb North and West"

cheers

 

[MACCA350]

you are kidding macca.....here is just one example with about 20 or more homes...house and land packages...no added stamp duty for fHB's

FHB still have to pay stamp duty in Melb..........and you only get a slight discount if you will be moved in within 12 months........and I mean slight.........you should know that.

...everything is included....

Like fun

ps most of us have tried to show you, how to be smart with a property, and not pay top dollar....

Is that what you call it

have a look at this one 229 k's and a big choice of suburbs....

http://www.arbgroup.com.au/form/?ref=4

See that little star after the price..........that means there's more to the story.........in this case at bare minimum "FHB price AFTER grant" and notice the FROM...........give them a call and get the real pricing.

We've been out to many displays and listening to all the sales pitches........bottom line is always higher than all the glossy large print marketing nonsense

Come on Kincella, you know better than to fall for that marketing nonsense.......

OOH........did I see that right?........"Up to 100% finance available".........chant with me, sub-prime........... sub-prime......... sub-prime......... sub-prime.........



cheers

 

[gfresh]

I recommend starting early on somthing small and trading up as you go through life,

Trouble is most people want to start where their parents have finished and rather than save and plan to get into somthing small, They rent over their budject and complain about the market.

Maybe some can do this throughout life.. or in my parent's case, they bought their 3br house 40km from the city, as it was all they could afford at the time to raise a family. Then got divorced, and split the wealth. 35 years later they never/still were never able to afford anything closer to the city This may well become the common scenario for many families, not through lack of trying. It's very hard to "trade up" and more further in, unless you are quite career driven, and wish to make sacrifices, sometimes the expense of your family life.

But anyhow, that is them.. From that I learned a lot about what I *didn't* want..

 

[Tysonboss1]

"Average included 2 kids last I checked"


"build on the OUTSKIRTS of Melb North and West"

You're tarring every FHB with a wide brush there, not everyone thinks that way............and besides were not talking about the big end of town here.....
"once again these are the CHEAP end of the market"

Do you only skim posts?
"build on the OUTSKIRTS of Melb North and West"

cheers

They do build 3 bedroom units as well.

Yep eventually the urban sprawl will make the out skirts unaffordable.

In a large over populated city a 3 bedroom house is the big end of town, Try and find a 3 bedroom house on a decent block in londan or new york. even after their recent price crashes, a house and land is only in the realm of the elite.

What you have to realise is that over the years in a growing city what the average family can afford changes.

 

[wayneL]

They do build 3 bedroom units as well.

Yep eventually the urban sprawl will make the out skirts unaffordable.

In a large over populated city a 3 bedroom house is the big end of town, Try and find a 3 bedroom house on a decent block in londan or new york. even after their recent price crashes, a house and land is only in the realm of the elite.

What you have to realise is that over the years in a growing city what the average family can afford changes.

London has 2 1/2 times the population of Sydney and covers 1/4 of the area.

Apples and oranges.

<edit to add> Wages are *much* higher too ('cept for the low end).

 

[Tysonboss1]

Maybe some can do this throughout life.. or in my parent's case, they bought their 3br house 40km from the city, as it was all they could afford at the time to raise a family. Then got divorced, and split the wealth. 35 years later they never/still were never able to afford anything closer to the city This may well become the common scenario for many families, not through lack of trying. It's very hard to "trade up" and more further in, unless you are quite career driven, and wish to make sacrifices, sometimes the expense of your family life.

But anyhow, that is them.. From that I learned a lot about what I *didn't* want..

I hear what your saying, It's probally best to buy somthing small not to far from where you want to end up, buying a house in broken hill with the hope up trading up into a house at bondi beach probally won't work.

For example if you want to eventually own a 4 bedroom luxary apartment, in bondi. maybe start with an older 1 bed flat or studio in a slightly cheaper neighboring suburb.

This property then acts like an anchor, in the market and prices should move inline with the other suburb making it easier to trade up.

But the biggest factor is starting your investment plan early, and avoiding a hyper consumption life style.

 

[Tysonboss1]

London has 2 1/2 times the population of Sydney and covers 1/4 of the area.

Apples and oranges.

<edit to add> Wages are *much* higher too ('cept for the low end).

my point is just that as cities grow things change. My great grandad could have bought a 1/4 acre block at bondi beach on an average income.

Obviously it would be crazy to expect this to be considered affordable now, I can protest and complain how unfair it is that no one will sell me a house at bondi for a price I can afford, but the fact is people are lining up to pay millions of dollars for homes there

This is what I mean land becomes more expensive as you try and cram more people into the same space.

 

[tech/a]

Decided to sell a couple of properties just reciently.(Espy Apartments)
Think they have peaked for the time being.

Great opportunity to clear some holding debt and Freehold another with the profit.Reduction of 2 debts (apartments and the one I'm freeholding) and positive cashflow increased dramatically.

 

[wayneL]

my point is just that as cities grow things change. My great grandad could have bought a 1/4 acre block at bondi beach on an average income.

Obviously it would be crazy to expect this to be considered affordable now.

This is what I mean land becomes more expensive as you try and cram more people into the same space.

It is a factor, but not the only one.

My point is that Sydney should not be compared to London or NY city. There are a multitude of reasons of which I mentioned only a couple.

eg, There are dozens of large cities where inner city land is not worth Jack Sh`t.

 

[Tysonboss1]

It is a factor, but not the only one.

My point is that Sydney should not be compared to London or NY city. There are a multitude of reasons of which I mentioned only a couple.

eg, There are dozens of large cities where inner city land is not worth Jack Sh`t.

I wasn't comparinf sydney as it stands today to londan, I was just pointing out that what seems affordable in the past, May not be afforable in the future.

as every decade passes there will be less houses in sydney, but more people. So the style of property the average can expect to buy will change.

 

[satanoperca]

They do build 3 bedroom units as well.

Yep eventually the urban sprawl will make the out skirts unaffordable.

In a large over populated city a 3 bedroom house is the big end of town, Try and find a 3 bedroom house on a decent block in londan or new york. even after their recent price crashes, a house and land is only in the realm of the elite.

Is this what you are wishing for Australia to become. No more cricket in the backyard and accommodation only for the elite, so that property is a commodity rather than a necessity for all.

Quality of life is what is important.

 

[Beej]

It is a factor, but not the only one.

My point is that Sydney should not be compared to London or NY city. There are a multitude of reasons of which I mentioned only a couple.

eg, There are dozens of large cities where inner city land is not worth Jack Sh`t.

You *absolutely* can and should compare Sydney to London when it comes to property prices -especially if you want to understand where prices in Sydney are headed.

For a start - see this Wikipedia article about global cities: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_city

Global City or world city status is seen as beneficial, and because of this many groups have tried to classify and rank which cities are seen as 'world cities' or 'non-world cities'.[3] Although there is a consensus upon leading world cities,[4] the criteria upon which a classification is made can affect which other cities are included.[3] The criteria for identification tend either to be based on a "yardstick value" ("e.g. if the producer-service sector is the largest sector, then city X is a world city")[3] or on an "imminent determination" ("if the producer-service sector of city X is greater than the producer-service sector of N other cities, then city X is a world city").[3]

......

Alpha World Cities ++: New York City, London
Alpha World Cities +: Hong Kong, Paris, Singapore, Sydney, Tokyo, Shanghai, Beijing
Alpha World Cities: Milan, Madrid, Seoul, Moscow, Brussels, Toronto, Mumbai, Buenos Aires, Kuala Lumpur
Alpha World Cities -: Warsaw, Jakarta, São Paulo, Zurich, Mexico City, Dublin, Amsterdam, Bangkok, Taipei, Rome, Istanbul, Lisbon, Chicago, Frankfurt, Stockholm, Vienna, Budapest, Athens, Prague, Caracas, Auckland, Santiago

As you can see Sydney is ranks as an "Alpha World City+" placing it in the top 10 of global cities in the whole world. Yes London/NY are the 2 "Alpha++" cities, but as far as Australia and even the Asia-Pac region is concerned, Sydney is economically a lot like London. Sydney has very high salaries in many professions compared to the rest of the country, and a LOT of very wealthy families/people live there as well.


PS: Care to name the cities with low inner city property values and show where they sit in the global city rankings?

Is this what you are wishing for Australia to become. No more cricket in the backyard and accommodation only for the elite, so that property is a commodity rather than a necessity for all.

Quality of life is what is important.

It;s not about what you *wish* for - it's about understanding the economics behind things in order to forsee what is going to happen whether you like it or not. Anyway, back yard cricket will remain alive and well - it just might get played more (by average income earning families anyway) in new smaller cities/towns and further flung centres that get built outside the 20km radius around the centre of the existing major cities. For those in the inner city there should still be plenty of parks/common area's etc where the cricket will get played It's not all that horrible an idea really you know!

Cheers,

Beej

 

[Tysonboss1]

Is this what you are wishing for Australia to become. No more cricket in the backyard and accommodation only for the elite, so that property is a commodity rather than a necessity for all.

Quality of life is what is important.

It's not a concept that I invented, whether I like it or not it is happening,

I would love to see Australia's population spread out into the regional areas, however this is just not happening, a slow but steady natural population growth combined with immigration,and a reluctance for people to move away from capital cities will ensure increased densities continue to happen.

Property has always been a commodity, somthing being a necessity of life does not stop it being a commodity, think oil, coal, grain, beef cattle etc,etc.

All I am saying is that if populations contiune to grow, It is not possible for the density of dwellings to increase, and it is a simple fact that the low density homes will be sought after by the rich, there for putting them out of reach of the average.

But it's simple, If you want a life style that involves a large home on a decent patch of land. Move out of the rat race of the capital cities and live your dream,

But don't stay in the rat race complaining about somthing that will never change.

Even if laws are changed and property drops a bit, It is only going to reset the price of land to a point where it will then continue to grow from.

There will always be affordable housing, as I said earlier it is impossible from that housing to always include a big chunk of land.

 

[Tysonboss1]

Quality of life is what is important.

It sure is,

If you find your self struggling to make ends meet in the city and want a better life style, get out of the city.

Plenty of fantasic spots in oz where you can have a great quality of life away from the rat race.

I plan on exiting sydney soon, I know it will be very hard bringing kids up the way I want to in this rat race. It's not what I want But hey it must be what millions of others want otherwise they wouldn't be here doing it.

 

[wayneL]

You *absolutely* can and should compare Sydney to London when it comes to property prices -especially if you want to understand where prices in Sydney are headed.

Sydney has its attributes, but you are deluding yourself to compare it to London.

I'd pay up to live in London... in fact I do. But would I pay what I'm paying here to live in Sydney? No way. Laughable. It's all yours mate.

Just my opinion.

 

[wayneL]

So this is where you reckon Sydney prices are going eh?

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION^85242&sortByPriceDescending=true&radius=5.0&primaryDisplayPropertyType=houses

 

[Knobby22]

So this is where you reckon Sydney prices are going eh?

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION^85242&sortByPriceDescending=true&radius=5.0&primaryDisplayPropertyType=houses

Wow!
I am presently reading a SF book called "Flood" by Steven Baxter and excellent English author. It is about London being flooded due to global warming. Large swathes of London has housing in land that was swamps or is very low lying. There are large gates across the Thames to stop a flood occurring as has happened in the past but in the book the sea rise combined with a storm and accompaning water surge is enough to flood parts of London. I wouldn't buy any of those houses if they were in low lying land.

Sydney gets flooded also by the way. Lets face it, the whole city is in an alluvial plane. Wouldn't take much to do!!

 

[Beej]

Sydney has its attributes, but you are deluding yourself to compare it to London.

I'd pay up to live in London... in fact I do. But would I pay what I'm paying here to live in Sydney? No way. Laughable. It's all yours mate.

Just my opinion.

Excatly - your *opinion* (a preference really). And you only pay up to *rent* there if I recall??

Have you actually ever lived in Sydney by the way? I've spent a lot of time in London, but never lived there though, but have close friends and family who have/do and have since come back to Sydney - not backpacker living either but professionals earning good money and living well in both cities. Personally based on my experiences there and their anecdotes, + because of the lifestyle I like to live, I would never be likely to settle in London *permanently* over Sydney. My lifestyle requires nice weather and summers so I can enjoy nice days with my family in my own backyard, a 10 minute drive to the beach, sailing on the harbour, being surrounded by bushland/reserves, etc etc, + still have broad and diverse economic opportunity available within close commuting distance. Sydney is pretty unique in that it provides all of these and more in one place. I don't have to fly 1000km's to the south of Spain just to get some sun!!! Anyway, that's my, and many others, preference and opinion! And I "pay up" to live here in Sydney.

So this is where you reckon Sydney prices are going eh?

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION^85242&sortByPriceDescending=true&radius=5.0&primaryDisplayPropertyType=houses

For the very top end, why not? There are a swag of sales each year of luxury harbour front places that sell for $20M-$50M each year. In a few years they could easily change hands for those top end London prices?

Wayne I think you are suffering from a classic case of ex-pat-itis. You need to get back to the homeland and remember why all those people leave the UK permanently each year!

Wow!
I am presently reading a SF book called "Flood" by Steven Baxter and excellent English author. It is about London being flooded due to global warming. Large swathes of London has housing in land that was swamps or is very low lying. There are large gates across the Thames to stop a flood occurring as has happened in the past but in the book the sea rise combined with a storm and accompaning water surge is enough to flood parts of London. I wouldn't buy any of those houses if they were in low lying land.

There's another book with this theme that shows one likely future for London-town - Ben Elton's "Blind Faith" - a good read! It's about a future community who live on and around the "Archipelago of London"

Sydney gets flooded also by the way. Lets face it, the whole city is in an alluvial plane. Wouldn't take much to do!!

Not the North Shore or Eastern Suburbs..... it's out west and south-west that is the alluvial plane However having said that, the whole region is still well above sea-level, so sea level rises will not flood western Sydney - it's excessive rainfall run-off from this side of the Great Divide that has the potential to occasionally flood particular parts of those area's, but the dams plus reduced rainfall do a lot to make that a pretty rare event nowadays!

Cheers,

Beej

 

[gfresh]

http://flood.firetree.net/

 

[kincella]

again, I am with Beej...he has nailed it exactly, why some places are more popular than others, and more expensive when all of the boxes are ticked.
Melbourne has similar attributes, but its not as warm, or as wet as Sydney, as a rule.....last year was an exception with Black Saturday and 45 degree heat....
now look at this CBA and its sub Bank West starting a rate war...variable rate at now 5.4% and capped at 7.5% until 2012....personally I dont believe our rates will rise that fast to be higher than 7.5% within 3 years.....

oh, and am wondering, how many posters here, took Keens advice and sold, and now waiting to get back into the market .....which really has not fallen....ps dont tell me about the 10 million plus price tags either, as I doubt we would have anyone here in that market....

oh and reviewed a share portfolio yesterday....it had gained $100,000 in less than 3 months...the investor is a buy and hold type, and has been actively buying shares in the last 6 months since Mar 09....holds 1/3rd of each of the 3 main asset classes, ie; cash, property and shares...and intending to top up with more property in both Melb and Sydney by the end of the year....and probably gear it to 50% with the low rates