Kincella,
You seemed to have missed the first part of that Age report.
"FIRST home buyers are continuing to pile into the housing market in the race to take advantage of the Federal Government's first home owners grant boost, despite clouds of gloom hanging over the economy and rising prices in Melbourne's most affordable suburbs."
Sounds like even the reporter is shocked, keep building the bubble, bring forward that demand, we are different to US, we can build a bigger bubble.
and
"Figures from the Bureau of Statistics show that first home buyers made up 27.3 per cent of home loans for owner occupiers in March — a record proportion"
Nothing to be concerned about, rising unemployment, an inept government placing all Australians in debt and record low IR's.
and
"The figures, from Residex, show that 57 per cent of suburbs with average house values below $350,000 experienced a price increase of more than $7000."
Government sponsored assistance to an asset class that only ever goes up in price. Taxpayers dollars well spent when facing a increasing world wide economic contraction.
aleckara, precisely. High RE prices does not provide for a productive or happy society.
If Oz is so different to the rest of the developed nationa, why is our government going into so much debt, I believed all those who said it is different here but is seems that it is not.
Just comparing what my father baught 17 years ago to my auntie who baught in 2007:The only difference between you Beej and some others is you secured a property earlier when money was worth more and your wage in terms of housing was worth more - and you are hedged against this erosion in value
Just comparing what my father baught 17 years ago to my auntie who baught in 2007:
Father: $115k for a new 4bdr house and land package on a decent sized block, his teaching wage at the time was $30k........just under 4x wage
Auntie: $470 for a new 4bdr house and land package on a decent sized block, her teaching wage was $60k........that's just under 8x wage
Extrapolate that out based on wage and affordability ratio and my kids(in 15 years or so) will be paying $1.9M with a wage of $120k..........just under 16x wageThat just does not seem sustainable, something has to give.
cheers
You make me laugh sometimes, how isn't income ratio an issue......I mean how do we pay for a house......with our incomehello,
your auntie should of picked up one similar to the examples Kincella through up the other day, even less $ in 2007
and would of been most likely 3x income (not sure why this income ratio is such an issue)
oh well auntie has made a decision to load up so can wear it if something happens
thankyou
robots
Green shoots everywhere Robots, pity we are running out of water to nourish them - credit without government intervention anywhere in the world is becoming scarce.
Don't worry, the government is not, debt is to the solution to all problems. Paying for the debt is someone elses problem - Liberals will have a plan to get us out of a huge deficit Labor hopes.
Robots, where do I buy one of those Associate Professor titles. Seems once you have one, you to can waffle on about any subject without evidence to support arguments. Everyone in the Labor party must have bought one, growth will return to above historic levels by 2011. Of course it will if we fuel growth with every growing debt.
Cheers
Honestly I've never asked her how she baught the house, but at the time she was divorced so she may have had some cash behind her.macca...there is something fundamentally wrong with the argument...your dad could afford the house, your aunt could not, and I cannot see how a bank would allow a loan on such a low income....must be another partner or someone there...your aunt could only afford a 240k house on her income....
where did all the other money come from to get into such an expensive house ????
anyone looking at a nearly half million dollar house on a wage of only 60,000 is trying to live way beyond their means.....
it takes at least 2 wages of 60k each x 4 times = 480k house...
its not changing to 4 times, then 8 times then 16 etc....
Firstly - if you take this argument to it's extreme, who is to set what the "lowest cost" for "basic shelter" should be? Remember there is a point at which the shelter will become more and basic the lower the cost. Conversely the higher the cost the better the shelter could be. If you take this to the extreme, we could be like an old eastern block communist state where all property is state owned and we get "allocated" our concrete box to live in for free, then all our spare money can go into "more productive" things! However, we all now where this path leads us, so therefore we also know it's far better to let the market work this stuff out for itself through land values, house prices and rents. This is the most efficient way available to find the right balance, based on what people actually want, between price and quality of "shelter".
Regardless, I don't see housing per se as a "basic function" or just "shelter". It's an argument that I see bandied about a lot. I think in a very narrow sense, housing/shelter is a basic function yes - but only in that as a society it is in our interests that we ensure everyone has shelter/housing of some sort (ie doesn't have to sleep on the streets) - even if that needs to be provided via the government through welfare/public housing etc.
However, land/home ownership is a whole different matter. The right to shelter, or rather our obligation as a society to ensure everyone has it, does not translate into a right to land/property ownership, nor does it translate into the right to have the best located, highest quality home for some arbitrary minimal cost - whether buying or privately renting!
Property is an asset class that is at the very heart of our personal living standards, lifestyle etc. The location where you live, and the quality, size, amenity etc of the home you live in are major inputs to your quality of life and chosen lifestyle. Thus by it's very nature there is going to be an element of speculation in the value of such an asset - especially as there is also the potential for cash returns through a purely market set rental income.
Part of that speculation is how much you might choose to spend on acquiring, maintaining, improving a property that you own, or invest in. The more money that moves towards property as an asset class, the better it will get, thus improving the standard of living available to us.
I don't know how well I am getting this argument across - but essentially what I am trying to say is the "market" has primarily determined the level of capital that is flowing through the property market right now (both prices and rental costs), based on what people want in terms of lifestyle and living standards and what they are prepared to pay for what is available. Anyone who thinks the amount of capital allocated is too high, or that it is unproductive, is primarily making a value judgment really, rather than an economic one IMO.
Say houses were cheaper, and I used my spare money to buy say a second hand Ferrari, or a holiday home, or maybe a chalet in Chamonoix, or even just take a world trip, is that a more or less efficient use of my capital than if I had spent it on a house? Or a house renovation? Sure I might also chose to invest in a business etc, which would be seen as being highly productive, but I could also chose right now just to live in a cheaper area, free up capital and do the same thing. Ultimately I will decide what I spend my money on (as will everyone else re their money!) - and it will be about my lifestyle and investment choices, trade offs, chosen balance etc. Government policy and regulation etc can try and put incentives and penalties in place to encourage me to spent my money one way or another, but ultimately it will (or should be!) still my personal choice! Land/house prices are no different than anything else in this respect.
Cheers,
Beej
Honestly I've never asked her how she baught the house, but at the time she was divorced so she may have had some cash behind her.
My point is that my father had an average income and baught an average house at the time..........15 years later my auntie had an average income and baught an average house........yet the proportion of average income to average house has exploded..........what will happen in another 15 years, how can things be sustained if they continue at that rate
Your last paragraph has made my point. 15 years ago my parents could afford the average house on a single average income, yet you mention that is not possible with today's prices. If things continue, there will be no First Home Buyers in future generations and the only way to own property would be to inherit(or win the lottery)
Personally it makes me sick that the government could encourage house prices to continue to such unaffordable levels.
The whole point of housing is to house people, what does it say about our society when the average person cannot own their own home(you remember "The Australian Dream").
Housing is turning into nothing more than an investment portfolio for the rich and bugger the average Aussie!
cheers
macca...there is something fundamentally wrong with the argument...your dad could afford the house, your aunt could not, and I cannot see how a bank would allow a loan on such a low income....must be another partner or someone there...your aunt could only afford a 240k house on her income....
where did all the other money come from to get into such an expensive house ????
anyone looking at a nearly half million dollar house on a wage of only 60,000 is trying to live way beyond their means.....
it takes at least 2 wages of 60k each x 4 times = 480k house...
its not changing to 4 times, then 8 times then 16 etc....
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