Seems to me with that story shows your not particularly good at picking shares to invest in, perhaps in retrospect an index fund or LIC might have been best for you?
House prices to keep rising for years
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Seems to me with that story shows your not particularly good at picking shares to invest in, perhaps in retrospect an index fund or LIC might have been best for you?
actually I have done quite well with shares over the years....and did take about a third off the table in Dec 07...and the rest by mid 08...and watched them fall further since then....
I have not calculated the gains made over the year...but just looked at the selling price when I dumped the rest of them....so losses will not be as high..for tax purposes....I just dont like losing any money, no matter how small
I do not like LIC or any of the investment trusts... I prefer to manage as much as I can myself...hence the property portfolio....I have complete control over it...
I can buy the best shares and they still dive....
I dont need a lesson in investing...but thanks anyway
I have not calculated the gains made over the year...but just looked at the selling price when I dumped the rest of them....so losses will not be as high..for tax purposes....I just dont like losing any money, no matter how small
I do not like LIC or any of the investment trusts... I prefer to manage as much as I can myself...hence the property portfolio....I have complete control over it...
I can buy the best shares and they still dive....
I dont need a lesson in investing...but thanks anyway
I am mostly staying out of this aspect of the debate (IMO shares play an equally important role in any comprehensive investment strategy as any other asset class, despite the potential volatility).
However, the above statement is a little condescending don't you think? The current market burned many experienced players - the ferocity and depth of the sell off of what were previously considered solid blue chip shares of well managed, well positioned companies caught all but the most active and disciplined traders out - and just about all long term buy and hold investors. This did not necessarily reflect directly on their stock picking abilities!
I have been burned by this stock market simply by being in a very diversified SMA type set-up
But what can you do? Made me wish I was still day trading through the whole thing to be honest, as I would have been able to cut my losses much sooner at the very minimum, but, c'est las vie!Cheers,
Beej
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I have been burned by this stock market simply by being in a very diversified SMA type set-up
Beej
So let me get this right:
If you guys buy hold a property, you're prepared to hold it through troughs, as the trend is up et etc
However, if its shares which you have bought, you are not prepared to hold through any troughs, and would rather crytalize a loss, and whinge about how you got burned by the stockmarket.
At best its double standards. At worst it just a plain inability to understand & apply your successes from the property market, into the stock market.
I really do suggest you read some books on value investing.
So let me get this right:
If you guys buy hold a property, you're prepared to hold it through troughs, as the trend is up et etc
However, if its shares which you have bought, you are not prepared to hold through any troughs, and would rather crytalize a loss, and whinge about how you got burned by the stockmarket.
No - property markets and stock markets are VERY different (as I am sure you know). The volatility of the stock market is far greater, the costs of buying and selling are far lower. What's more an individual stock you hold can easily become absolutely worthless (ABC, B&B etc) - to manage this risk you have to either be more active with controlling potential losses and/or have greater diversification than with property. An individual property cannot really become worthless (assuming you are insured and there are no nuclear wars etc). Also one property I would always hold is my PPOR (you can't buy your PPOR on the stock market and live in it), so there are lifestyle/practical factors there as well.
I've certainly taken profits from both stock and property investments in the past - that's how I paid for my current PPOR and my car for example (I won't tell you guys what I drive - you'll be jealous!
). I've also crystalised losses on the stock market when need be, but have not as yet had to crystalise any loss from a property investment, as the market hasn't really provided a situation where that was ever close to occurring.Nowadays, (if not actively trading - which I did for a year a few years ago), I do run pretty much a buy and hold strategy with the stock market, through a managed portfolio basis - there are personal reasons I have to do this. In this market, given how things have turned out, I think in hindsight it would have been better to have gotten out last year sometime and be on the sidelines at the moment - but as I did not do that, I still hold reasonably significant equity positions. Fortunately those are very diversified and the dividends have been continuing to flow quite strongly, so at this point I'm just going to let those investments ride out with a long term view on them, and still expect them to provide decent returns at some point in the (possibly distant!) future. But I am glad I do not/did not have all my eggs in that particular basket
Cheers,
Beej
hello,
great day, nice 25 degrees in melbourne city
yeap, plenty of us have no idea ubiquitous but in for the long haul for our own circumstances AND providing a roof over the head for others in the community
being part of the community and helping out and if some gains come along then off we go, fantastic
well done to those doing this in society,
thankyou
robots
great day, nice 25 degrees in melbourne city
yeap, plenty of us have no idea ubiquitous but in for the long haul for our own circumstances AND providing a roof over the head for others in the community
being part of the community and helping out and if some gains come along then off we go, fantastic
well done to those doing this in society,
thankyou
robots
hello,
actually, P investors are very similar to Bill Gates and Buffet, Philanthropist's:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philanthropy
gee amazing
thankyou
robots
actually, P investors are very similar to Bill Gates and Buffet, Philanthropist's:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philanthropy
gee amazing
thankyou
robots
Nice day to you to Robots....its getting a bit warmer here in Toorak...might have to turn the air on......
One needs a bit of stamina in the current climate....but getting tired of the arguing that goes on....but thats par for the course....had similar arguments back in 2000....and look what my props have done since then....whooshka
One thing that sticks in my mind...is the percentage of wealthy people compared to the masses.....its miniscule...between 5-10% are wealthy and they own 90%of the worlds wealth..... meaning the other 90% of the popuation only holds 10% of the wealth.....you can understand why....
Might have to get out of the office and smell the roses....the roses around my prop that is....or one of my other props.....most have a couple of beds of roses....
One needs a bit of stamina in the current climate....but getting tired of the arguing that goes on....but thats par for the course....had similar arguments back in 2000....and look what my props have done since then....whooshka
One thing that sticks in my mind...is the percentage of wealthy people compared to the masses.....its miniscule...between 5-10% are wealthy and they own 90%of the worlds wealth..... meaning the other 90% of the popuation only holds 10% of the wealth.....you can understand why....
Might have to get out of the office and smell the roses....the roses around my prop that is....or one of my other props.....most have a couple of beds of roses....
hello,
well done Kincella, often spend all day cycling around your neighbourhood admiring the architecture and construction that happens, awesome
still a lot of "master craftsman" working on sites in Toorak, Malvern, Sth Yarra etc and to watch them at it is just beautiful
thankyou
robots
well done Kincella, often spend all day cycling around your neighbourhood admiring the architecture and construction that happens, awesome
still a lot of "master craftsman" working on sites in Toorak, Malvern, Sth Yarra etc and to watch them at it is just beautiful
thankyou
robots
Glen48
Money can't buy Poverty
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House prices to keep rising for years.......until 2009!!!!
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To be a philanthropist you'd be letting your tenants reside in your IP for free... or more likely just be giving the property away to somebody who needs it.
I do realize that prices are coming down though so you'll probably feel like you're giving it away when the time comes to sell up and crystalize your losses.
Did you actually read the article you posted??? First sentence quoted below:
hello,
yeap, thats us singlefished
we letting people use property for only a fraction of the cost apparently, helping out in society
surely it doesnt have to be all or nothing, many philantropists are doing "what they can", for the cause
thankyou
robots
yeap, thats us singlefished
we letting people use property for only a fraction of the cost apparently, helping out in society
surely it doesnt have to be all or nothing, many philantropists are doing "what they can", for the cause
thankyou
robots
Hi Robots...yes it is lovely here...absolutely my favourite spot on earth....and so close to everything that matters to me.....
there are a couple of ugly little sets of units down in Williams Rd heading south between Toorak and Malvern Rds....very neglected...but ripe for a developer to keep an eye on...and pick up in this market....
otherwise some beautiful buildings here.....
someone bought the whole block of 1970's cream brick uglys...so looking forward to seeing what they do with them
I note on the realestate site...an agent has a unit down in Kensington Rd, Sth Yarra listed as a Toorak property... thats pretty cheeky
cheers
there are a couple of ugly little sets of units down in Williams Rd heading south between Toorak and Malvern Rds....very neglected...but ripe for a developer to keep an eye on...and pick up in this market....
otherwise some beautiful buildings here.....
someone bought the whole block of 1970's cream brick uglys...so looking forward to seeing what they do with them
I note on the realestate site...an agent has a unit down in Kensington Rd, Sth Yarra listed as a Toorak property... thats pretty cheeky
cheers
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So if you're "positively geared" from day one until the time you sell then that means that the tennant is actually the Philanthropist and the investor is the beneficiary of the free property no?
to make matters worse...we hardly put up any money ourselves...we use OPM..other peoples money....the tenant gets the roof over his head...(thats my contribution to the human society) and later sell the thing for a profit...which fills up my bank account with cash......
some of that cash I use to support other family members...its a big extended family out there for me to look after
I do use some of those profits to donate to the various animal societies, and the rental income contributes to regular monthly payments to 3 of them... the kidney society is the only human one....since my brother died of a kidney disease less than a year ago..he was only 61
some of that cash I use to support other family members...its a big extended family out there for me to look after
I do use some of those profits to donate to the various animal societies, and the rental income contributes to regular monthly payments to 3 of them... the kidney society is the only human one....since my brother died of a kidney disease less than a year ago..he was only 61
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You can't say the whole of the Northern Beaches is the top 10% of the Sydney market. Northern Beaches is a big area and most Northern Beaches suburbs have a median price of around $800K.
Top end of the market would be places like Vaucluse, Point Piper etc.
On the Northern Beaches you could call Palm Beach and Whale Beach 'top 10%' and I agree those suburbs are definitely down about 20% (to a median of around $2M now) but most of the Northern Beaches suburbs are just filled with normal working people living in normal houses priced close to the $800K median.
My observations of the current Northern Beaches market...
- Bottom end (up to $600K) selling like hotcakes. Prices rising strongly.
- Mid range ($600K-$1M) steady sales. Prices flat or rising slowly (~5%).
- Upper range ($1M-$1.5M). Very slow. Houses sitting on the market for ages. Prices flat or down slightly (~5%). Vendors mainly holding out. Have noticed a slight pickup in this range since January with more sales starting to go through.
- Top End (Palm Beach etc. $1.5M+). Dead. Nobody is buying. Prices down 20%.
My existing properties would be in the mid-range. I am planning to upgrade to a new top-end PPOR at substantial discount in the next few months.
According to Residex, the overall Northern Beaches median increased over 2008. One of the very few Sydney region to do so.
Cheers,
Shadow.
Bill M
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Cheers for that, 100% correct, same as what I've been trying to tell ASF members but you put it much more nicely. It gets pretty squeezy in those 1 br units on a Saturday when agents are conducting an open for inspection. So many buyers, so little supply. A unit in Foam St Freshwater had 80 groups through in a day, busier than Pitt St.
Ahhh another nice day on the Northern Beaches, sun is out and I'm off for my walk...:walker:
Yep - Shadow (and Bill M) what you describe is almost exactly what I have seen happening on the lower and upper North Shore, and I suspect based on the stats etc is the story right over Sydney.
The mid range and upper range (as you have defined them) will start to pick up soon as all the action in the lower price ranges (being driven by the return of FHBs to the market) flows through in the next few months and people like yourself who actually watch the market see the opportunity and upgrade PPORs. I think the top end will struggle for a while given the amount of wealth destruction impacting the top end of town at the moment, and things won't really recover there until the economy picks up again in the future - but when that happens, watch that top end market sky rocket!
A couple of auctions coming up in my suburb over the next 2 weekends in the $1.2M-$1.5M+ range, so will get a good feel for the market by attending those and seeing how many buyers are around, if they sell, and what prices are achieved. This is an area with a ~$1.4M median house price according to APM, so is a good indicator of what is going on in the "upper range" market in Sydney. Prior to this lot, one house was listed in January and sold prior to auction after only 2 weeks on the market for ~$1.2M (price seemed about right for what it was)....
As I have stated before, Sydney will lead any market change in AU - it's been basically flat since 2004 (while there was supposedly this great free credit driven bubble going on - didn't seem to be blowing in Sydney). Meanwhile Perth, SEQ etc went ballistic, and even Melbourne saw some huge increases - I think that's why most of the bears here are sand gropers and banana benders (plus a few mexicans to boot). It's hard not imagine a correction is due when you see such large increases in prices over a short period of time - and maybe in those area's this will happen, but in Sydney it won't IMO.
Cheers,
Beej
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