Help needed with trading/charting/testing software

[Sicilian Trader]

There are a host of different software programs out there for trading , testing , charting etc.

Interactive Brokers (IB), Metastock, Amibroker, Tradesim to name a few.

I am slightly confused as to which ones I will need to achieve my trading goals.

Just a quick snapshot of my situation if I could.

* Will be starting futures trading in about 2/3 months.
* Currently back testing, forward testing (walk through), paper trading, reading, refining money management skills etc etc
* Will be settling on a property during this period and will take out 50K from the net CG to open up a futures account most likely with IB - not confirmed yet
* Whilst it wont be cheap, I am giving serious consideration to combining the following two software programs, TradeSim + Amibroker. TradeSim for its testing capabilities and Amibroker for its charting capabilities.


So, as i understand it..

IB - for placing trades if you are trading futures / forex
TradeSim - for robust backesting, Monte Carlo analysis etc
Amibroker - for technical analysis / charting etc
MF Global - for using a human broker to place special types of orders than cannot be executed electronically (this is my own personal choice)

Do I have each of their functions right? Or am i doubling up with any? I know many here use Tradesim + Amibroker or Metastock

Do people also combine these 2 with IB as well?

I am just getting ready for when i go 'live' (provided i am successful during my due diligence process of course)

Any help would be greatly appreciated, TH, Tech, and any other cyber authority who cares to comment?

Looking forward to getting some pearls of wisdom

ST

 

[tech/a]

Re: Help needed with trading / charting / testing software

S/T

IB is a trading platform for just about anything. Its just your on line brokerage platform.
Id use Amibroker + Tradesim.
Although I actually use Metastock because I started this stuff before Amibroker was around.
MF global CFD's

 

[Sicilian Trader]

Re: Help needed with trading / charting / testing software

thanks tech

yeah i do some cfd trading and use mfg as they are the only brokers i can for my sort of trading

so you would use tradesim + amibroker, instead of IB? IB appealed because of its direct access to markets, no cfd's, no MM etc.

Are you saying that i can achieve everything i want to with amibroker, and not bother with IB?

 

[weird]

Re: Help needed with trading / charting / testing software

Don't think you mentioned a data feed. Historically if backtesting you will need something , with futures EOD, either Premium Data or CSI, but for short-term data, IB has a few days or weeks backfeed ... which Amibroker has a plugin for.

Would start with Amibroker, if trading futures with a portfolio in mind, although not sure how you would do this with only 50K apart from a few different positions, with a portfolio you probably have only a small multiple of possible monte carlo variations, perhaps Amibroker alone would be sufficient. You can do some basic monte carlo, perhaps export further to excel.

Mind you I trade futures, with a buffer of capital, prepared for losing streaks.

IB is not really a charting software, although you can view basic charts, it is a trading platform, that offers some historical backfeed short-term data.

 

[Trembling Hand]

What sort of trading are you going to do?

 

[Sicilian Trader]

Re: Help needed with trading / charting / testing software

Don't think you mentioned a data feed. Historically if backtesting you will need something , with futures EOD, either Premium Data or CSI, but for short-term data, IB has a few days or weeks backfeed ... which Amibroker has a plugin for.

Would start with Amibroker, if trading futures with a portfolio in mind, although not sure how you would do this with only 50K apart from a few different positions, with a portfolio you probably have only a small multiple of possible monte carlo variations, perhaps Amibroker alone would be sufficient. You can do some basic monte carlo, perhaps export further to excel.

Mind you I trade futures, with a buffer of capital, prepared for losing streaks.

IB is not really a charting software, although you can view basic charts, it is a trading platform, that offers some historical backfeed short-term data.

thanks weird, no i have not considered a data feed - thanks for the suggestion

Are you suggesting that 50K isnt sufficient to open up a futures account?

I intend on trading mini's, though I could just focus on a few full contract at a time. Are you suggesting , if so , what would be the minimum amount someone should start with when trading futures (in order to maximise diversification, non correlated markets and capturing as many trends as possible?

 

[weird]

That's a very good question. Depending how you trade and your risk orientation. I trade EOD, with a system that only has a 33% win ratio, with a tight stop loss ... so I calculated the likely loosing streak and factored that in to the buffer of capital I need ... although you could argue that buffer is wasted capital and too conservative, however I am happy with the potential future returns based on that capital.

Someone like TH, would probably have a totally different point of view. So I can't generalize.

I don't think 50K is too small to trade futures ... although I don't really know what your strategy and expectations are.

I have seen 100K managed futures accounts just balloon out after a couple of years, and then seen horrendous losses occur at the end, which for overall results depending where you started for your overall return were excellent however the risk management caught up in the end, the particular business of that firm was put on hold for a while, with the particular trader leaving. This was with a local but respected group in Australia quite a while back.

With trading always more capital is better, and of course keep your risks low per trade to ensure when losing streaks occur you're still in the game.

50K is not too small. In terms of your ability to diversify, I find that difficult to answer.

 

[weird]

A few other charting and trading platforms to perhaps research, might include,

http://www.genesisft.com/

Trade Navigator

and also

https://www.tradestation.com/

For Data feeds, you could also look at,

http://www.esignal.com/

 

[Sicilian Trader]

thanks weird, much appreciated

 

[Trembling Hand]

ST if you are executing trades on a discretionary basis have a look at IB with ninja trader attached.

 

[Sicilian Trader]

ST if you are executing trades on a discretionary basis have a look at IB with ninja trader attached.

thanks ST, my system will be mechanical for the most part, the only time i would exercise any real discretion in my trading is when i dont completely ignoring any strong fundamentals in whatever instrument i am trading. Aside from that, its all mechanical.

Thank you though, i will still look into ninja as i am in a serious learnign phase. I am like a sponge at the moment. Literally, i am actually like a sponge. I am drenched, my clothes are completely soaked. I have been rolling around on the kitchen floor trying to absorb the bucket of water i just spilt - a sponge.

Anyway, i don't think one of my questions were answered re having tradesim + amibroker, as opposed to IB. TH, are you saying that amibroker can do what IB can do, for my purposes anyway (which will be fairly 'simple' purposes to start with)??

Also might add that i do not want to compromise on program quality.

Thanks

ST

 

[Trembling Hand]

Nah. IB is the broker (& data provider). all the rest are charting or simming platforms attached to IB to enable you to do "other stuff".

 

[Wysiwyg]

A fast and/or reliable CPU to handle the simulation software and trade on the platform is worth a look too.

 

[Sicilian Trader]

Nah. IB is the broker (& data provider). all the rest are charting or simming platforms attached to IB to enable you to do "other stuff".

ok, cool, IB wont be a waste to get

so..

IB for broker
Amibroker for charting
TradeSim for simming
Premium Data for historical data for BT purposes

Does it sound like i be will cooking with gas TH or will i get burnt to a crisp?

Hoping the former

ST

 

[tech/a]

IB connects to Esignal.
You could get your EOD data from that feed.
Run it through Ami and Sim through Tradesim.
Ami also has simulation capabilities the advantage of Tradesim is its superior Montecarlo and now R/T testing capabilities.

 

[tech/a]

Just a thought.

You maybe looking for a simulation platform like T/H and a few others have posted up here rather than a Systems testing simulator.

Tradesim and Amibroker are systems testing software.

IB has a trade simulator for use as a sort of paper trading trade record.

Both completely different.
Perhaps your use of "sim" may not be as we think you mean (I thought systems testing but that may not be the case), Can you clarify?

 

[Sicilian Trader]

thanks tech

just to clarify,

i intend on backtesting on in-sample data (from 99/00 onwards) and 'forward' testing out-sample data (say the most recent 8 weeks)
TradeSim + AmiBorker?

then I intend on jumping on a simulator (paper trading for say 2 months)
IB?

ie.

Jan 1 2000 - Feb 28 2009 : backesting in-sample data
Mar 1 2009 - Apr 30 2009 : testing out-sample data
May 1 2009 - June 30 2009 : 'paper' trading
July 1 2009 : go live
Jun 30 2010 : retire

based on what you said, i presume i will be needing all three - TS, AB & IB?

thanks

 

[AlterEgo]

Re: Help needed with trading / charting / testing software

Id use Amibroker + Tradesim.
Although I actually use Metastock because I started this stuff before Amibroker was around.

Does TradeSim work with Amibroker too? I was under the impression that it was only designed to work with MetaStock and BullCharts.

 

[tech/a]

S/T Yes
A/E Yes

 

[Sicilian Trader]

S/T Yes
A/E Yes

thanks Tech

Now that i have established what I need, just need some clarfication on rough costs:

Tradesim - AUD$1,500 (once off or p.a)? any monthly costs?
AmiBroker 5.20 - US$279 (once off or p.a)? monthly costs?
IB - $29 permonth?
Esignal - ~$500 per yr data feed

Can someone assist me, i am trying to get a rough idea of associated costs

thanks