Help... I feel I'm out of 'options'

[Felipe]

Hi,

I have been studying options for a good 3 years now. I have paid for intuition, back traded, paid for more intuition and also have what I believe to be a fairly solid software at my disposal (Market Analyst, Option Vue).

I started a small account last year and had ended up 25% down. I pulled the money out and continued to study, with a house on the market i thought, I will load up with the profits from the house.

Any way, 7 months has gone by and im 70% down. Yes, ive had bigger than 1% positions, yes I have just had wrong stratergies in hindsight, yes i certainly concider myself a novice but I am doing something really wrong here.

One of the biggest problems I have in my view, is the lack of network of like minded people. Every loss i make, I am left there scratching my head and no one else really to give me there opinion, atleast not someone who is actually making money.

The guy I done my course with also runs a weekly webinar, but, the penny just dropped, he never shows if he is actually trading or how he's trades are going. I am not accusing him off anything, and if I were to, I would simply think, its not transparent enough.

On the weekly webinars you can't actually chat with other people, so I'm here hoping I can find crew that trade options and are either in the same boat, or much better and would take the time to get to know where I'm at regarding my skills etc.

I am a damn hard worker, ask my partner. I spend countless hours in front of that computer doing TA, I'm not unrealistic either, i actually have in my head that it would take around 5 years before i was really good.

Althogh im going through a traders pit at the moment, I still have a decent chunk of capital left to begin to turn things around. I believe in this, or still want to anyway.

So if i sound like you, or what you used to be than please find the time to help me out.
Maybe your looking for a spring chicken to mentor, maybe you just like helping people. I've run out of options and I would be greatly appreciative of your time.

Regards

Felipe

 

[Value Collector]

Others may have a different opinion, but to me options are a tool to be used as part of a bigger investment plan/operation, I would suggest putting your effort into learning what it takes to become a good investor, then once you understand that, you can add some options positions to enhance your investment portfolio.

When it comes to T/a, in my opinion studying TA rather than fundamental analysis, is like studying astrology instead of astronomy, or alchemy instead of chemistry, you can dedicate your life to astrology and never learn anything of real use, sure some predictions will be right through chance.

 

[peter2]

Have you asked your "educator" if they are willing to review your past trades and make suggestions?

If your "educator" has any integrity they will. They may charge extra for this service but you should be able to negotiate a reasonable fee as you are an ongoing customer.

 

[Felipe]

Others may have a different opinion, but to me options are a tool to be used as part of a bigger investment plan/operation, I would suggest putting your effort into learning what it takes to become a good investor, then once you understand that, you can add some options positions to enhance your investment portfolio.

When it comes to T/a, in my opinion studying TA rather than fundamental analysis, is like studying astrology instead of astronomy, or alchemy instead of chemistry, you can dedicate your life to astrology and never learn anything of real use, sure some predictions will be right through chance.

Hey,

Great analogies. It certainly feels very much like a bit of luck. ...but bad luck lately.

I assume your an investor? Do you understand options? Do you use options?

Im going about this the **** way round your saying. I certainly am seeing your view.
Do you know of successful options traders?

Regarding becoming a good investor, would you be implying outperforming the market?

I would certainly like to expand my knowledge, any suggestions for where I would start a fundamental type course?

Thanks for your opinion.

 

[Felipe]

Peter,

That's a great suggestion regarding a break down of my trades. I'll suggest this to him.

Do you trade options Peter? Have you been successful, please share.

 

[CanOz]

When it comes to T/a, in my opinion studying TA rather than fundamental analysis, is like studying astrology instead of astronomy, or alchemy instead of chemistry, you can dedicate your life to astrology and never learn anything of real use, sure some predictions will be right through chance.

Here we go again.

 

[Value Collector]

Hey,

Great analogies. It certainly feels very much like a bit of luck. ...but bad luck lately.

I assume your an investor? Do you understand options? Do you use options?

Im going about this the **** way round your saying. I certainly am seeing your view.
Do you know of successful options traders?

Regarding becoming a good investor, would you be implying outperforming the market?

I would certainly like to expand my knowledge, any suggestions for where I would start a fundamental type course?

Thanks for your opinion.

Yes, I use a very simplistic options strategy as a small part of my over all portfolio.

Yes, when I say good investor I would be talking about some one who over time outperforms the market, any given years result is irrelevant, it's the performance over time that matters.

Being an average investor is the easiest thing in the world, simply buy an index fund and hold it and dollar cost average funds into it and you will get a very credible average rate of return over time, at very low risk, this is what most non professials should be doing.

To beat that market average return is harder than it looks, and leads most people who try to end up under performing.

 

[Value Collector]

Here we go again.

As I said people have different opinions, but it's pretty clear to me that most of the trading strategy courses etc being peddled out there to people who genuinely want to learn are actually leading them astray.

If this guy just sat his money in an index over the last 3 years, he would have had a lot more free time, and a lot more cash.

 

[Triathlete]

As I said people have different opinions, but it's pretty clear to me that most of the trading strategy courses etc being peddled out there to people who genuinely want to learn are actually leading them astray.

I have used this company to get educated on a part time basis which took 4 year to complete.

www.yourtradingmentor.com.au

Not saying you need to do courses it is just the way I have gone about it and financially I am way ahead of the game.

 

[Felipe]

Yes, I use a very simplistic options strategy as a small part of my over all portfolio.

This simple stratergy VC, would that be covered calls?

Yes, when I say good investor I would be talking about some one who over time outperforms the market, any given years result is irrelevant, it's the performance over time that matters.

Being an average investor is the easiest thing in the world, simply buy an index fund and hold it and dollar cost average funds into it and you will get a very credible average rate of return over time, at very low risk, this is what most non professials should be doing.

To beat that market average return is harder than it looks, and leads most people who try to end up under performing.

So would using Relative Rotational Graphs to help find leading sectors be something the you use VC? Along with what I can only assume your capabilities to use fundamental analysis to pick your stocks?

Break it down for me VC, I'm happy to go through my stratergy. No skin off my nose if it's laughed at, cause truth is, it's obviously not working.

But let me be clear, and I am in no way saying this to pump up my otherwise flat ego regarding my trading success. I got into trading 3 years ago because I genuinely found interest in it. Although im at a loss, I still do, maybe naively so. But I'm yet to find someone who will tell me straight if there any good at trading.
I am not a guy with bad paying job looking for a get rich quick scheme, I actually have what would be concidered a relatively well paying job of 320k + P/A and i only work half the year, I could see the rest of my work life on that wage.

But here is the clincher, I have no passion anymore for what I do, haven't for a long time. I got into trading as i felt if i could make half that, and be home every night with my daughter than i would genuinely feel alot happier than I currently am in my work life.

So that's the quick version of my violin story, I just wanted anyone reading this to know that I'm not just some irrational, unreasonable guy with unrealistic goals.

That's is why I am on this forum, I want to meet the guys/ladies who are for real either
A- making a living
B - losing like me
C- grinding through

Im not here to debate if fundamental traders make more than swing traders, or algorithmic traders, or that traders full stop don't win...because I physically have not met any of the gengres that claim to be making a killing.

But if your an investor that has been outperforming the market, than in my mind you are doing fantastic. I supppose my personality fits the options world as it is a little more fast pace, but the slow and steady wins the race hey.

 

[CanOz]

As I said people have different opinions, but it's pretty clear to me that most of the trading strategy courses etc being peddled out there to people who genuinely want to learn are actually leading them astray.

If this guy just sat his money in an index over the last 3 years, he would have had a lot more free time, and a lot more cash.

I totally agree with you, most 'courses' are rubbish and unfortunately the analysis of things such as price and volume (TA to me) can be sold easier as it appears its easier to learn and looks good in hindsight. The reality is that it takes as much work as any profitable method and newbie's don't like to hear that. These courses give TA a bad name. As do things like like lagging indicators, MACD, RSI, etc.

Price and volume just give you a map, a structure to the market, you still need to look for participants in either order flow or volume.

For the OP, perhaps WayneL or Minwa will provide some good guidance on options. Mazzatelli as well, but he's overseas now i believe.

CanOz

 

[Felipe]

Thankyou Triathlete.

Do you trade? Invest? Both?

What do you trade? Which markets?

I am happy that your having win from trading and/or investing.

Would you be interested in discussing some points? Maybe your algorithm for finding stocks to trade/invest?

I would like to nut out if your course was similar to mine and if ive got the right tools, just not implementing it correctly, or if you simply have a better edge than myself.

 

[Felipe]

I totally agree with you, most 'courses' are rubbish and unfortunately the analysis of things such as price and volume (TA to me) can be sold easier as it appears its easier to learn and looks good in hindsight. The reality is that it takes as much work as any profitable method and newbie's don't like to hear that. These courses give TA a bad name. As do things like like lagging indicators, MACD, RSI, etc.

Price and volume just give you a map, a structure to the market, you still need to look for participants in either order flow or volume.

For the OP, perhaps WayneL or Minwa will provide some good guidance on options. Mazzatelli as well, but he's overseas now i believe.

CanOz

CanOz

Thanks mate, I use simple things like bollinger bands and SMA, I'll throw an RSI in there also, sounds like you don't approve of that though.

So do you trade options CanOz?

I'll see if I can find these guys you speak of, thanks for that.

As for courses, im not here bagging out my course, it would be wrong of me, because It may all be me? I just feel that maybe, just maybe alot of 'mentors' have a great understanding of the market from a technical and fundamental stand point, but if you see what puts the bread on the table, i feel its the courses and ongoing 'mentoring'.

How hard is it to find just a regular bloke/woman who trades well and is open and transparent about it.

I feel if I was successful I would certainly be transparent about my suggestions, because I know to well what it's like to feel sceptical of others alleged success.

 

[Triathlete]

Thankyou Triathlete.

Do you trade? Invest? Both?

What do you trade? Which markets?

I am happy that your having win from trading and/or investing.

Would you be interested in discussing some points? Maybe your algorithm for finding stocks to trade/invest?

I would like to nut out if your course was similar to mine and if ive got the right tools, just not implementing it correctly, or if you simply have a better edge than myself.

Hi Felipe,

Yes I do both. Invest and trade

I mainly look for medium term trades

I mainly stay with the ASX 150

Sure just PM me with your questions and will see if I can help out.

I do not have experience with options though which is what you said you were looking at.

Take a look at my blog post on Price ,Pattern and Time this is what I use to trade.

 

[CanOz]

CanOz

Thanks mate, I use simple things like bollinger bands and SMA, I'll throw an RSI in there also, sounds like you don't approve of that though.

So do you trade options CanOz?

I'll see if I can find these guys you speak of, thanks for that.

As for courses, im not here bagging out my course, it would be wrong of me, because It may all be me? I just feel that maybe, just maybe alot of 'mentors' have a great understanding of the market from a technical and fundamental stand point, but if you see what puts the bread on the table, i feel its the courses and ongoing 'mentoring'.

How hard is it to find just a regular bloke/woman who trades well and is open and transparent about it.

I feel if I was successful I would certainly be transparent about my suggestions, because I know to well what it's like to feel sceptical of others alleged success.

I don't trade options, only futures, equities and some CFDs. I understand some about options from what i've read, but its limited to the basics and few strategies....

If you have allot of trades under your belt, are you able to sift through them all and see if the ones that worked had anything in common? That is how i turned my trading around was just getting enough trades under my belt and then weeding out the bad and improving the good stuff

 

[Felipe]

I don't trade options, only futures, equities and some CFDs. I understand some about options from what i've read, but its limited to the basics and few strategies....

If you have allot of trades under your belt, are you able to sift through them all and see if the ones that worked had anything in common? That is how i turned my trading around was just getting enough trades under my belt and then weeding out the bad and improving the good stuff

Great idea. I'm away at work at the moment.
I may Jump in on a few earnings this month while out here (i work offshore....yuk)

But my account is getting ground and pounded....when i get home im going to do exactly that CanOz....go over every single trade, work out what it was i saw in the ones that won.

I want to broaden my knowledge in other trading vehicles like forex, futures cfd's etc. But i feel like I've invested so much time (3 years) into options and capital that I don't eat to turn my back yet and be overwhelmed by a completely new way of trading.

Did you have a mentor CanOz or even mates to go over your trades with you?
I have found out alot about my psych trading and also my ability or inability to process otherwise complete gibberish language as my line of work and circle of friends haven't the slightest idea about trading. So I'm kinda like that kid in class trying to learn english but at home everyone is speaking Cantonese.

 

[CanOz]

Great idea. I'm away at work at the moment.
I may Jump in on a few earnings this month while out here (i work offshore....yuk)

But my account is getting ground and pounded....when i get home im going to do exactly that CanOz....go over every single trade, work out what it was i saw in the ones that won.

I want to broaden my knowledge in other trading vehicles like forex, futures cfd's etc. But i feel like I've invested so much time (3 years) into options and capital that I don't eat to turn my back yet and be overwhelmed by a completely new way of trading.

Did you have a mentor CanOz or even mates to go over your trades with you?
I have found out alot about my psych trading and also my ability or inability to process otherwise complete gibberish language as my line of work and circle of friends haven't the slightest idea about trading. So I'm kinda like that kid in class trying to learn english but at home everyone is speaking Cantonese.

I definitely would not be throwing out what you've learned, you've likely got a good grounding.

I was there myself, it was gut wrenching to face giving up...its like a trade, just when you want to throw in the towel and puke it up is when you need to double down and get really serious.

 

[shouldaindex]

Luck adjusted, would you expect traders to have the skill in the first 3 years to make a significant profit?

 

[CanOz]

Luck adjusted, would you expect traders to have the skill in the first 3 years to make a significant profit?

Retail punters take between 3 to 5 years to be profitable on average, the ones that survive. The Pro's can have traders profitable in 6 to 9 months with little investment.

 

[Felipe]

I definitely would not be throwing out what you've learned, you've likely got a good grounding.

I was there myself, it was gut wrenching to face giving up...its like a trade, just when you want to throw in the towel and puke it up is when you need to double down and get really serious.

Haha..
Wow! Yeah I am in that uncertainty right now. My partner told me not to chuck in the towel....even though that money could of gone towards a nicer home.

Yeah I'm totally doubling down. 1% from now on. But here's a question....or 2...

Position sizing....does that mean. ...and I have not traded like this but just for an egsample....

If i had 100k in my account, and i had a 10k position, would placing my stop at the 1% loss ($1000) be what other traders are doing?

Or.....no matter what even if its a spread you absolute maximum loss. ....even if stops are gaps etc.....it would be 1%?

I'll admit, i was putting up to 7k trades on, and then setting my stop/limit at roughly what the 1% loss would be.....most times though, i get gapped, then I'm losing 10%....
Silly, silly..

Other problem, just getting stopped out at a loss. ..only to have the trade go well into the money (i have expiry's between a month to 4 month) in the next few days, weeks, months.....grrrrr.

One trader told me he never used stops because of exactly that, the trade didn't have enough room to 'breath' evolve, especially options as entries with 1 % stop below is almost always chewed up. ....the opening of markets just chew it up. ....hour later. ...the stock rocketed 2 % and your left there with a finger up your nose