Has Kevin Rudd misled parliament?

Uncle Barry said:

So I noticed there is another Stock Forum with a Party operator there also, selling the message and protecting the party no matter the subject, and I now wonder if this a team play or just a Party directive maybe ?

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I notice that when posters cannot apply intellect to an issue they change the topic, ask meaningless questions, and draw silly inferences.
Do you have a contribution that is relevant to this thread's theme, or do you want a play a game of cheap shots, that you stand to lose?

trainspotter said:

Me thinks Mr Swan has overstepped his duty of care as Treasurer perhaps? I wonder if the other car dealers received this kind of treatment from the omniscient Mr Swan?

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You are raising issues that were dealt with in Parliament ad nauseum last week.
The very best that the Opposition can do is infer that Swan's direct chat with Grant constitutes "special treatment".
WOW
A Minister spoke to a constituent about a matter that came under his portfolio responsibilities, and was subsequently kept in the loop. Never happened before has it?
Oh, it has!
There were 12 years of it before Rudd, and many more before that under Hawk and Keating.

trainspotter said:

Did you know that the six leading members of the Government from Mr Rudd down, the top six have a collective work experience of 181 years. But only 13in the private sector. If you take out of those 13 years the number that were spent as trade union lawyers, that total 11, of the 181 years only two years were spent in the private sector.

So the people who will rack up a net Federal debt minimum of 188 billion, the highest in our history, have virtually no experience in business.

So out of 181 years:

- no years spent running their own business
- no years spent starting their own business
- no years spent as a director of a family business or a company
- no years as a director of a public company
- no years in a senior position in a public company
- no years in a senior position in a private company
- no years working in corporate finance
- no years in corporate or business restructuring
- no years working in or with a bank
- no years of experience in the capital markets
- no years in a stockbroking firm
- no years in negotiating debt facilities with banks
- no years running a small business
- no years at the World Bank or IMF or OECD
- no years in Treasury or Finance.

But these people have plunged Australia into unprecedented debt, and now have the gall to rub our noses in it like a naughty puppy caught weeing on the carpet. BUT they do know how to put on a spin to get them out of trouble.

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There certainly is a lack of talent there.

Turntable has much more private industry experience than Krudd. And certainly better access to funds from overseas.

Stick a Ute up ya Mal!

Revealed: Malcolm in middle of US donation controversy
The Age - February 8, 2009
Josh Gordon

MALCOLM TURNBULL has taken a large campaign donation from an American billionaire closely linked to the predatory lending practices that triggered the subprime lending crisis in the United States and global recession.

An investigation by The Sun-Herald revealed that Peter Briger, chairman and director of controversial "vulture company" Fortress Investment Group, contributed $US50,000 ($76,000) to the Liberal campaign fund for the Opposition Leader's Sydney seat of Wentworth last year.

Mr Turnbull previously held shares in Fortress, but offloaded them in 2007, just after US presidential hopeful John Edwards was forced to distance himself from the firm following controversy over its practices and foreclosures on victims of Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans.

Mr Briger made the donation to Mr Turnbull's fund in March, but he disclosed it to the Australian Electoral Commission in November. A spokesman for Mr Turnbull confirmed the links, but stated "many global institutions, including many Australian ones, have had a direct or indirect connection to the subprime crisis".

The Turnbull family had sold its Fortress shares for a profit of just over $1000, he said. The spokesman refused to say why Mr Briger had contributed to Mr Turnbull's campaign coffers or if he was an appropriate source of political funding.

"Like the Rudd family, Mr Turnbull makes full disclosure of all his interests," he said, alluding to the pre-election controversy over Therese Rudd's business interests. "Like the Rudd family, Mr Turnbull does not discuss personal family finances."

The spokesman would not explain how a donation to the Wentworth campaign fund could be considered personal family finances.

Fortress is referred to as a "vulture company" because it preys on vulnerable businesses and debtors and picks over financial carcasses. Mr Briger was listed by Forbes magazine in 2007 as having a net worth of $US2.3billion. He is also a former partner at Goldman Sachs, the same company where Mr Turnbull made his millions as a merchant banker.

Mr Turnbull altered his parliamentary register of interests in March 2007, stating he had sold his interest in Fortress after the Washington Post attacked Mr Edwards for working for and investing in the firm - which had spent hundreds of millions of dollars aggressively expanding into the subprime lending market.

The Wall Street Journal also identified Fortress as a company that had profited from the misery inflicted by Hurricane Katrina after its subprime lending arms launched foreclosure suits against dozens of storm-ravaged victims.

Revelations that Mr Turnbull held shares in the company and received a generous political donation from its director come at an awkward time for the Liberal leader. Labor has spent much of the past week attempting to paint Mr Turnbull as an agent of unrestrained greed and wanton neo-liberalism.

But I take great offence to the last sentence that is obviously a fake, fraudulent, fabricated and distorted lie. Why on earth would the ALP be accusing Mal Turntable of unrestrained greed ? There's absolutely no basis for it at all ROFLMAO!

trainspotter said:

So the people who will rack up a net Federal debt minimum of 188 billion, the highest in our history, have virtually no experience in business.

So out of 181 years:

- no years spent running their own business
- no years spent starting their own business
- no years spent as a director of a family business or a company
- no years as a director of a public company
- no years in a senior position in a public company
- no years in a senior position in a private company
- no years working in corporate finance
- no years in corporate or business restructuring
- no years working in or with a bank
- no years of experience in the capital markets
- no years in a stockbroking firm
- no years in negotiating debt facilities with banks
- no years running a small business
- no years at the World Bank or IMF or OECD
- no years in Treasury or Finance.

But these people have plunged Australia into unprecedented debt, and now have the gall to rub our noses in it like a naughty puppy caught weeing on the carpet. BUT they do know how to put on a spin to get them out of trouble.

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Scary stuff when you think about it

Like I said before "We spend 250 billion dollars a year on defense. And here we are. The fate of the planet is in the hands of a bunch of retards I wouldn't trust with a potato gun."

cheers

think we need a new thread titled.....
Rudds list of broken and faulty pretend promises
so far we have had.....fuel watch, grocery watch, climate change, workplace change....
all a huge waste of our money....but he has been looking after his mate Grant....what is the latest...oh yes doing deals with China to help his mate...
thats the next episode....

Reality hits PM as millions wastedCOMMENT: Dennis Shanahan | June 27, 2009
Article from: The Australian
WHEN Kevin Rudd rhetorically promised in the 2007 election campaign to do something about rising petrol and grocery prices, he was making a promise he could not keep.

Yesterday, after the waste of millions in taxpayers' funds, the Rudd government conceded that reality and dumped its promise.

This is a broken election promise, a betrayal of expectations of voters and a repudiation of Rudd's promise, a promise that was always a pretence.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25697091-17301,00.html

Did't take long for the "dirt" bag to come out after Parliament went into recess.
Libs are digging into every detail on Rudd they can to manufacture another scandal.
But there is one tailor made for Labor (note the spelling Uncle Barry) should they wish to use it. It's about Turnbull's announcement a day before the 2007 federal election was called, offering funding for Australian Rain Technology. That company is part-owned by Mat Handbury, Turnbull's neighbour and a member of the Wentworth Forum, an electorate fundraising committee.
My recollection was that Labor knocked ART's funding on the head on coming into office, just as they revisited the hundreds of regional rorts that Howard's government had funded through a massive pork barrelling exercise that Audit closed the book on.

rederob said:

You are raising issues that were dealt with in Parliament ad nauseum last week.

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Yes, and excuses for Swan and Rudd's shonky behaviour have been repeated ad nauseum by you.

But of course a bore is the last person to know that he is a bore. I suppose you have never wondered why people give you a wide berth when they see you coming.

You are probably a big hit at the local branch of the Green party. Being boring is what they do best.

Calliope said:

Yes, and excuses for Swan and Rudd's shonky behaviour have been repeated ad nauseum by you.

But of course a bore is the last person to know that he is a bore. I suppose you have never wondered why people give you a wide berth when they see you coming.

You are probably a big hit at the local branch of the Green party. Being boring is what they do best.

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More mud throwing - no evidence.
There is no substitute for consistency.
Keep it up.

rederob said:

Did't take long for the "dirt" bag to come out after Parliament went into recess.
Libs are digging into every detail on Rudd they can to manufacture another scandal.
But there is one tailor made for Labor (note the spelling Uncle Barry) should they wish to use it. It's about Turnbull's announcement a day before the 2007 federal election was called, offering funding for Australian Rain Technology. That company is part-owned by Mat Handbury, Turnbull's neighbour and a member of the Wentworth Forum, an electorate fundraising committee.
My recollection was that Labor knocked ART's funding on the head on coming into office, just as they revisited the hundreds of regional rorts that Howard's government had funded through a massive pork barrelling exercise that Audit closed the book on.

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At least Ros Kelly went down for that kind of behaviour as Sports Minister.

Was Turntable Environment Minister at the time he gave his mates over at the Australian Rain Corporation the $10 million dollar grant?

look who is diverting...ducking and shoving now....
the question raised in parliament....was Rudd lying when he said he had nothing to do with helping his mate Grant out......
he lied when he said NO....
now we find rudd wastes his time as a PM helping his mate get contracts in China....thats an even bigger deal.....
none of them are fit for the role bestowed on them.....neither labor nor liberals...
except for Costello....
just like Paul Mullett appears to have got off scott free.....he is a crook and a rogue....there is no doubt about it....but the prosecutors stuffed up....it does not mean he is innocent.....
same us rudd and swan

rederob said:

More mud throwing - no evidence.
There is no substitute for consistency.
Keep it up.

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Sorry. It was a cheap shot. I know you can't help it. You are obviously a very lonely man.

kincella said:

look who is diverting...ducking and shoving now....
the question raised in parliament....was Rudd lying when he said he had nothing to do with helping his mate Grant out......
he lied when he said NO....

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You need to move on.
Even Turnbull has conceded Rudd has no case to answer.
His flame is on Swan's song.

Or.....
Have you got another email you want to send to PM&C and have it turn up in Grech's friend's computer?

kincella said:

look who is diverting...ducking and shoving now....
the question raised in parliament....was Rudd lying when he said he had nothing to do with helping his mate Grant out......
he lied when he said NO....
now we find rudd wastes his time as a PM helping his mate get contracts in China....thats an even bigger deal.....
none of them are fit for the role bestowed on them.....neither labor nor liberals...
except for Costello....
just like Paul Mullett appears to have got off scott free.....he is a crook and a rogue....there is no doubt about it....but the prosecutors stuffed up....it does not mean he is innocent.....
same us rudd and swan

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Here's an interview about Turntable when Environment Minister.

Govt defends $10m grant for untested rain-making technology
The World Today - Wednesday, 24 October , 2007 12:36:00
Reporter: Tanya Nolan.

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2007/s2069159.htm

ELEANOR HALL: The Federal Government is defending its decision to award $10-million to a company to trial rain-making technology.

The Environment Minister Malcolm Turnbull has announced the grant to the Australian Rain Corporation, a company part-owned by Rupert Murdoch's nephew, Matt Handbury.

But researchers commissioned by the National Water Commission to investigate the technology have questioned whether the $10-million grant should have been awarded now, saying a more careful evaluation of the science is needed first.

Mr Handbury himself agrees the science is in no way conclusive, but denies his family connections have helped him secure the federal money.

Tanya Nolan has our report.

TANYA NOLAN: It's a technique developed in Russia in the last decade, and it involves sending electrical charges into the atmosphere to make clouds and ultimately rain.

But the problem with it, says Neville Fletcher, a visiting fellow at ANU and emeritus professor of physics at the University of New England, is that it hasn't ever been examined in a thorough scientific way, nor has it been peer reviewed.

NEVILLE FLETCHER: I haven't seen yet enough evidence to say that I'm persuaded that it's going to work. The measurements in Queensland showed that there was more rain in the catchment area than there usually was when the equipment was running. But there was a lot more rain in that part of Queensland at that time as well. So it's a little bit hard to say. It didn't show that the equipment worked, but there was nothing to indicate that it didn't work. So it was a possible.

TANYA NOLAN: Professor Fletcher's conclusions are contained in a report released in August, prepared in conjunction with Ken McCracken from the CSIRO and commissioned by the Government's National Water Commission.

The report warned the commission not to go ahead with any trials of the technology until the science behind it could be more thoroughly tested. But it did say that if it could be done "at no great expense" a trial could be "worthwhile".

The report was produced after a small-scale trial of the technology was conducted in May in conjunction with the University of Queensland, which concluded there was an increase in rainfall at the time and recommended more scientific testing be done.

Environment Minister Malcolm Turnbull has now awarded $10-million to the Australian Rain Corporation, which owns the technology, to conduct a full scientific trial of it.

MALCOLM TURNBULL: The report commissioned by the National Water Commission recommended a further scientific trial. The University of Queensland went a lot further than that and recommended a very substantial long-term operational trial as well, which would have cost a great deal more than $10-million.

What I've endeavoured to do is to ensure that we do, we have both a meaningful operational trial and a scientific assessment so that we can investigate this technology in a timely fashion.

TANYA NOLAN: Professor Fletcher says the money would be better spent in stages, rather than funding all the stages simultaneously as the Government is doing.

NEVILLE FLETCHER: My preference would have been first to spend a smaller amount of money doing a careful evaluation of the science, and then, if that looked reasonable, to go onto a field trial. The trouble with jumping in immediately with a field trial in parallel with the science is that the science may turn up things which indicate the field trial ought to be done in a different way.

TANYA NOLAN: Professor Fletcher's view is supported by the water commissioner, Peter Cullen, who is quoted in the News Limited press as saying he is surprised the full $10-million has been awarded before the first step is taken of seriously evaluating the technology.

Chairman of Australian Rain Corporation Matt Handbury says he appreciates that argument, and agrees there are some holes in the science.

MATT HANDBURY: I can understand that logic, but as I said, even when you've worked out the science, how it works, we still wouldn't have demonstrated that it works, and the need for water supplies is so critical in Australia.

TANYA NOLAN: You're name has come up in connection with your uncle, Rupert Murdoch, as possibly a reason why you might be getting all this money at once without the rigorous scientific testing?

MATT HANDBURY: Oh, I haven't heard that Tanya. I think I don't seem to be able to get my name in the paper without my family connections, which I'm proud of and delighted in, but I don't see how… Rupert's aware of this, he's pretty interested in the environment and climate change at the moment, and very interested, but he has no direct involvement, and…

TANYA NOLAN: You don't think your family connection may have precipitated this $10-million windfall for your technology?

MATT HANDBURY: Not in the slightest. I think that… not in the slightest, I can't see the connection.




Oh Kennas, I think this post would also be suitable in the Russia - What are they up to? thread

like I posted earlier....none of them are fit for the role bestowed on them.....neither labor nor liberals...
except for Costello....
just like Paul Mullett appears to have got off scott free.....he is a crook and a rogue....there is no doubt about it....but the prosecutors stuffed up....it does not mean he is innocent.....
same us rudd and swan
and I wonder if we had some looking at travel rorts....what would that throw up....
there should be no role in parliament for crooks......but it appears we have more crooks at the top than ever before......

rederob said:

The very best that the Opposition can do is infer that Swan's direct chat with Grant constitutes "special treatment".
WOW
A Minister spoke to a constituent about a matter that came under his portfolio responsibilities, and was subsequently kept in the loop. Never happened before has it?
Oh, it has!
There were 12 years of it before Rudd, and many more before that under Hawk and Keating.

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Ya gotta be kidding me rederob?? You honestly believe that this does not smack of collusion?? Information sent to his PRIVATE home fax?? Denials in parliament that he had not received information in regards to the whole torrid affair?? Mr Swan claimed he was not following the situation closely?? Which part of this are you not getting? I concede the whole matter is a dismal failure on the Libs behalf and the smoking gun has blown up in their face BUT really !! Even the hardest died in the wool Labor voter must realise at some time that MAYBE ... yes just maybe the hand was caught in the cookie jar.

trainspotter said:

Ya gotta be kidding me rederob?? You honestly believe that this does not smack of collusion?? Information sent to his PRIVATE home fax?? Denials in parliament that he had not received information in regards to the whole torrid affair?? Mr Swan claimed he was not following the situation closely?? Which part of this are you not getting? I concede the whole matter is a dismal failure on the Libs behalf and the smoking gun has blown up in their face BUT really !! Even the hardest died in the wool Labor voter must realise at some time that MAYBE ... yes just maybe the hand was caught in the cookie jar.

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You are implying it is wrong for a Minister to be informed about a matter that he was asked to become involved in, via a representation made through a local MP.
I am saying it would be wrong if the Minister sought for a constituent a level of assistance that would not be afforded to another.
Swan makes no denials about what is on the public record, although he does admit he was not aware of the final outcome of Grant's case. Then again, there is no public record - via the email trail or otherwise - that Grech or Treasury briefed Swan on such.
If you ever worked in Canberra you might have some knowledge of what happens and how. I did and I do. Swan's evidence may be as he says. He might be telling lies: I don't know. But I do know that as Treasurer at the time of these events Swan was heavily committed to the Budget process and Grant's sideshow was of fleeting and marginal interest.

Deep Throat Emerges

http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/explosive-twist-charlton-comes-clean/

In the latest explosive turn in the ute-gate saga, comedians Mathew Kenneally and Toby Halligan have received a copy of an e-mail sent to Malcolm Turnbull’s shedding new light on the events.


From: Andrew_Charlton_4Eva@hotmail.com

To: Malcolm.Turnbull@gmail.com

Dear Mr Turnbull,

I’ve been feeling guilty since we spoke at the mid-winter ball, thanks by the way for the friendly advice. They taught me many things at Oxford but the value of not lying wasn’t one of them.

Watching the debate and coverage of Ute-gate it’s become harder and harder for me to stay silent when I know the truth.

I faked the fake email.

I snuck into Treasury and sent an email from my personal account to Mr Grech’s home email.

It was all part of a plan for you to believe the fake fake email was a real email and be embarrassed when it was revealed to be a fake email.

I can’t say too much, you saw what happened to Godwin, but I can tell you this:

The links between John Grant and the government are greater than even you can imagine.

My title as economic advisor is only a cover for my real role of John Grant Liaison Officer.

Grant has not only had a mobile phone conversation with Mr Swan, the two are Skype buddies and Mr Swan has been following Mr Grant’s updates regarding his attempts to gain finance on Twitter.

The links between the PM and Grant go deep.

The PM always wanted a ute but, despite his many written requests to her, Therese never approved finance for it.

But Grant helped the PM out and he’s never forgotten it. Don’t follow the money, follow the ute… specifically a 1996 Mazda, number plate KR 007

Ozcar is just the tip of the iceberg. I’d tell you more but I’d rather not do it in a fake email.

Meet me in the Press Gallery car park, I’ll be in the back of a Ute.

Happy to discuss there!

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A.

A breakthrough at last !!!!!!!!

"Swan's evidence may be as he says. He might be telling lies: I don't know." (rederob)

There ya go ...... now doesn't that feel better?

I have no drama's with Ministers representing their constituents to the best of their abilities and they should be making informed decisions with as much erudition as they can gather on the subject matter at hand. BUT when confronted with allegations that they were probably being over generous with their time and resources in resolving Mr. Grant's finance issues to stand up in Parliament and deny association beggars belief. This in itself is not a startling revelation neither. The same grubby politics has been thrashed out through the media for generations.

You don't have to work in Canberra to know how commerce works. You scratch my back mateee and I will scratch yours etc. ad infinitum has been around since the dawn of time.

I think what is missing here is that people are starting to grow tired of the spin being placed on what is coming out of Canberra and the mood shift is being shown here in this thread. The times they are a' changing brother.

a couple of days ago I posted the idea......that Grech may have had nothing to do with the emails and it could have been anyone from either camp....
now I find this.....
thanks to Calliope for the reminder to the link

Crazy Costello theory....the Costello Comeback
There are even byzantine claims that the sham email found by the AFP yesterday at treasury official Godwin Grech’s house - which has today been pelted with eggs - was the political equivalent of an exploding cigar aimed at destroying Malcolm Turnbull’s leadership.

The theory has been given extra legs with revelations on The Punch yesterday that the AFP want to have a quiet word to former Costello staffer Paul Lindwall, who until recently was working as Mr Turnbull’s economics advisor, to see what role if any he had in the email affair. There are no suggestions of any wrongdoing on his part but he is a confidante of Mr Grech and the coppers are keen to rule him in or out of the equation.

It’s anything goes stuff in Canberra right now. The wildly speculative Costello talk does indicate one thing - serious Liberal disquiet over Malcolm Turnbull’s judgment on Utegate, and his ability to bounce back from a shocking 24 hours.

http://www.thepunch.com.au/hot-topics/peter-costello

LMFAO at the exploding cigar analogy ... love it. Very apt in the situation.