Happy chemicals

[Modest]

Great link and interesting read thanks for sharing G!

Could do with one of your Limitless pills Modest!

You a cop?

Anyway, why are you feeling sh1thouse, is it trading related or one of those things you just can't put a finger on it?

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Great link and interesting read thanks for sharing G!



You a cop?

Anyway, why are you feeling sh1thouse, is it trading related or one of those things you just can't put a finger on it?

PM me ... nah just kidding.

Work-related problems.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

So I changed a few things at work and noticed improvement. I think I can sustain and take it further.

Took two of these questionnaires: https://www.authentichappiness.sas.upenn.edu/

Found out my main strengths - well I guess I knew them already. Trying to see how these can be employed to a greater degree.

Noticing how giving/service feels, and trying to see where that can be enhanced.

And since the whole idea of this was to improve trading... yes, a good week this week. The x factor of trading is mood.

Looking back at Breuning's suggestions, I'm not sure that this was the way to go. Some things sound good on paper and then when you come to do them, nothing happens.

Perferring what I've found on Udemy.com. Plenty of courses there and some quite good. example: https://www.udemy.com/courses/personal-development/

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Three of the most useful changes have been:

- Trying to ensure high omega 3:6 ratio in my diet to reduce general body/brain inflammation
- Short meditation/biofeedback exercises multiple times/day
- Monitoring my thoughts/emotions more closely

I want to get to a better level before I consider taking this into discretionary trading. I don't think I'll need to add anything new, but continued practice and skill development of mindfulness should help get me there.

 

[PeterJ]

thanks for the interesting thread GB
i am really enjoying it
to trade successfully continuosly
one must really be in a good place mentally and physically
a great reminder for me to let go of some vices !

thanks
Peter

:hammer::hammer:

 

[Gringotts Bank]

thanks for the interesting thread GB
i am really enjoying it
to trade successfully continuosly
one must really be in a good place mentally and physically
a great reminder for me to let go of some vices !

thanks
Peter

:hammer::hammer:

Thanks Peter.

If I can reach my goal I'll try and do a summary list of 'most' to 'least' useful items I needed to change.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Flow FTW. My account is up 8% in 2 weeks. Mood more stable. Few other issues to iron out.

A couple of good points here.

http://www.superhumanentrepreneur.c...00-learn-230-faster-skyrocket-creativity-700/

 

[Gringotts Bank]

I'm finding I have a major block on my progress in meditation - 'right speech'.

Pretty annoying, since I pride myself on speaking my mind whether positive or negative.

But all the reading I'm doing indicates that I'm not going to get my mind nearly as clear as I want without fixing this aspect. Some online chats with guys who are advanced meditators has also revealed that a very high level of virtue is a requirement for going deep. So that would mean not speaking or writing (or even thinking) critically about others. That's going to be a tall order for me, but since I really want to get good at meditation I'm going to have to give a try. I'll do my best not to become a Pollyanna. The things we do for success.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca4/index.html#threefold

 

[Gringotts Bank]

In today's news I read this by Warnie:

"Whatever it is, I want more ... Cars, clothes, money, houses, can't have enough. I just want more cars, more money and more houses. In reality we are very lucky but I would just like to have more stuff," Shane said. I like his honesty. He said this after just spending 250k on a new Bentley and 16 mill on re-purchasing his old Melbourne home. He has a 20 car garage for all his luxury cars.

What I'm wondering is this...

Right now, for me, I want more... and that wanting creates a feeling of disatisfaction. It's the feeling of disatisfaction which drives the desire to succeed, because I think that I can be rid of that feeling forever if I get everything I want. Is my disatisfaction any different to that of someone who has several expensive houses, cars, hot women, but still wants more? Warne said he can't get enough. That necessarily means he lives in a state of permanent disatisfaction/desire, like the rest of us. It might be easier to keep that disatisfaction hidden, through constant purchases, but it's still there.

That's what this is about- http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca2/index.html

Does anyone know if it's the same feeling?

 

[shodd]

Interesting thread!

Do you think that the desire for more can be linked to the strive for success? Almost like a side effect if you like. We as traders are constantly striving for perfect execution; for if we are to achieve it then the success will surely follow. And what better way to measure that success with all of the "stuff" you accumulate with the proceeds.

There's a substantial amount of pain that we all go through when learning to trade; most never break out of the cycle. I think you're right in stating that the desire to want more is addictive, just as I think the desire to succeed is too. It's easy to get caught up in the daydream that follows a modicum of success. It's what spurs you on. The more stuff is the external validation that that you're using to release the dopamine. And as with anything pleasurable your brain will try an engineer repeat doses

In the case of Warnie he's just trying to feel the same way he did when he was making fools of the world's best batsmen. And like many other elite sports people he's unlikely to ever obtain similar highs without some extensive inner reflection.

Interestingly I was at a baptism of a friend's baby boy over the weekend - the minister delivered a sermon on being humble and satisfied with the simple things in life. To derive pleasure from the small and not get too caught up lamenting what you don't have or can't achieve. I thought there's a lot in this message but I didn't think it would be compatible with the mindset I have when it comes to achieving what I want in trading. But after reading through this thread I would like to investigate meditation further. It may just be possible to separate these lines of thought, to get the best of both worlds......

 

[Gringotts Bank]

But after reading through this thread I would like to investigate meditation further. It may just be possible to separate these lines of thought, to get the best of both worlds......

I actually ran into the same old problems I'd experienced previously with a certain style of meditation. It has a tendency to dredge up old issues and make you feel a bit off. The process is supposed to result in a release of the emotion, but that's not always the case (depending on the intensity of ones personal 'stuff'). Also, trying to free the mind by using the mind doesn't work. There's a lot of pitfalls.

So I switched back to a body scanning type of meditation, which immediately had better results. And I'll stick with this. Body awareness reduces mental activity much better than breath/emotion/thought awareness.

-------------------------------

Nature designed desire to be uncomfortable. If it wasn't, we'd have no drive to satisfy it. We'd just put it off for another day. I question why Nature put us on this ridiculous "hedonic treadmill" (see wikipedia) where we never get the satisfaction for very long before a new desire arises for 'bigger and better', more and more. We're like slaves and I'm not sure people actually get this! I guess I'm trying to break free. The issue, as you say, is that the dopamine hit from achievement is highly addictive. Dopamine from achievement is no different from dopamine from cocaine, except for the obvious health risks of the latter. .

------------------------------------

My theory is that not all material success is equal. What differentiates the types is how the wealth is generated. So the methods are:

- Cheat the system somehow - only for dummies.
- Become an extremely tough and smart competitor. 70+ hrs/week, every week.
- Get into a flow state which attracts success

The paradoxical thing about the last option is that a desirous/greedy/fearful attitude has to be transcended. I've posted on other threads several research papers which show how desirous/greedy/fearful attitudes are detrimental to trading profits. The same appears to be true in business, but I have a limited sample size. The difference between the 2nd and 3rd options couldn't be more stark. The second fuels the fire of desire, the third aims to transcend it. I imagine the second is the only way to create massive wealth, but it appears like true happiness gets bypassed in the process. I'm not highly successful, so I just have to base it on snippets of meetings with such people - they seem very hardened.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Breath meditation is such a revealing process. Sitting-still-and-doing-nothing-at-all has the effect of bringing you into direct contact with your beliefs about personal goodness/okayness/worthiness.

If your 'goodness' as a person is maintained only through your actions/achievements, or through interaction with others, then the prospect of "sit and do nothing" will be highly threatening. "Am I still good if I'm not doing something or getting attention from others?" This is the question meditation brings you into contact with. Irritation and restlessness can result.

So those who do meditation easily must be those who have high self-acceptance. Those who find it hard are probably relying on a sense of 'goodness' derived from doing/interacting. Activity/interaction is a common defense against a core belief in unworthiness/defectiveness as a person. "So long as I'm busy/achieving/interacting, I am ok". This is the common human travesty.

Linking it back to trading performance. It's known that those who trade very well are those who can get 'in the zone' (zone = meditation, basically). But getting into that state will require high self-acceptance, otherwise any attempt to get into this state will cause a feeling of threat (relating to the question of self-worth, as described above). I'm starting to see why so few people reach a high level of [discretionary] trading performance. Modern society reinforces a self-worth which is contingent upon achievement/interaction, as opposed to a worthiness as a core, contingent-free reality.

Unfortunately, religions tend to encourage "being good" as a way of enhancing meditation, but if being good is used to prop up self-worth, then it's still external and contingent (not inherent). Dangerous stuff. It's a subtle aspect which I don't really understand very well.

 

[Klogg]

Must say, really good thread.

Nature designed desire to be uncomfortable. If it wasn't, we'd have no drive to satisfy it. We'd just put it off for another day. I question why Nature put us on this ridiculous "hedonic treadmill" (see wikipedia) where we never get the satisfaction for very long before a new desire arises for 'bigger and better', more and more. We're like slaves and I'm not sure people actually get this! I guess I'm trying to break free. The issue, as you say, is that the dopamine hit from achievement is highly addictive. Dopamine from achievement is no different from dopamine from cocaine, except for the obvious health risks of the latter. .

On this - I find that reading of the Stoic philosophy and aligning myself with these principles had the biggest effect in this area. The study of philosophy is hugely liberating if you share the same principles.

For anyone that's interested - "Letters from a Stoic" by Seneca has to be one of my favourites.



Now as for meditation, I also prefer to be aware of my body than my thoughts. It's almost like some sort of circular logic when I try to think myself into a meditative state.


And a final thought that hasn't been covered directly (I don't think...) - Whenever I'm pressuring myself for a certain result, the anxiety that ensues always kills my flow. Ironically, it's when I care less about the specific result that I perform better.
I'm sure this is the case for most, as anxiety never really helps anyone...

 

[Klogg]

Sorry for the double post, but another thought on this - have you thought about playing with diet/nutrition in other ways? (other than supplements)

I listened to this and this and decided to make the complete change to a ketogenic diet.
As it turns out, the lack of insulin spikes and intermittent fasting (I skip breakfast + lunch twice a week) really work well for me. It's also caused me to drop weight, but I was carrying a little extra anyway so no harm.

FWIW - I'm now on a ketogenic diet for the last 7 weeks.


P.S. I'm no medical professional, so anyone with Type 1 Diabetes should be really careful with this.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Sorry for the double post, but another thought on this - have you thought about playing with diet/nutrition in other ways? (other than supplements)

I listened to this and this and decided to make the complete change to a ketogenic diet.
As it turns out, the lack of insulin spikes and intermittent fasting (I skip breakfast + lunch twice a week) really work well for me. It's also caused me to drop weight, but I was carrying a little extra anyway so no harm.

FWIW - I'm now on a ketogenic diet for the last 7 weeks.


P.S. I'm no medical professional, so anyone with Type 1 Diabetes should be really careful with this.

I'm using a low inflammation diet - basically salmon and grass fed meats and vegetables and not too much of fruits/carbs. But I get hungry for food with sugar/fat content, so it's less than ideal.

I'll have a look at ketogenic thanks. Might be able to justify increasing fat content!

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Must say, really good thread.
On this - I find that reading of the Stoic philosophy and aligning myself with these principles had the biggest effect in this area. The study of philosophy is hugely liberating if you share the same principles.

For anyone that's interested - "Letters from a Stoic" by Seneca has to be one of my favourites.

I agree - at some point there's a realization that we are literally slaves to desire. Desire uses up our energy like a parasite, and gives us very little in return. Achievement/attention is met by a shot of dopamine which feels great, but just like a casino, the system is designed to only reward us 'just enough and no more'. The system wants us to keep playing. Eventually we realize we're not playing, but being played. I mean we're being played by our own nature - human nature!

On the flipside, a Stoic/renunciate lifestyle can have disastrous effects on a person who's not ready for it. It's just too easy to fall into the trap of denying feelings/drives/emotions, and this can severely aggravate a shame-based personality, leading to melt down! My [current] understanding is that things have to be done in the right order. A healthy self image first, then a moving away from pleasure/pain fixation.

 

[Klogg]

On the flipside, a Stoic/renunciate lifestyle can have disastrous effects on a person who's not ready for it. It's just too easy to fall into the trap of denying feelings/drives/emotions, and this can severely aggravate a shame-based personality, leading to melt down! My [current] understanding is that things have to be done in the right order. A healthy self image first, then a moving away from pleasure/pain fixation.

I never thought of it that way, but it's a very valid point.

Achievement/attention is met by a shot of dopamine which feels great, but just like a casino, the system is designed to only reward us 'just enough and no more'.

Also on the 4HourWorkWeek podcast, there's an interview with Tony Robbins about achievement vs fulfillment. Well worth listening to if you're interested.

 

[galumay]

Sorry for the double post, but another thought on this - have you thought about playing with diet/nutrition in other ways? (other than supplements)

I listened to this and this and decided to make the complete change to a ketogenic diet.
As it turns out, the lack of insulin spikes and intermittent fasting (I skip breakfast + lunch twice a week) really work well for me. It's also caused me to drop weight, but I was carrying a little extra anyway so no harm.

FWIW - I'm now on a ketogenic diet for the last 7 weeks.


P.S. I'm no medical professional, so anyone with Type 1 Diabetes should be really careful with this.

Klogg, my wife and I have been eating what is essentially a variation on a ketogenic diet, we cut most carbs out, not that we had a high carb diet, and have had fantastic results in the 9 months we have been following it. Lost heaps of weight, I am down to 81kg and my waist is under 100cm, mentally it has had a really positive impact, higher energy, better concentration and less sleepy. My wife has seen similar weight loss and also improved health with her chronic condition (Chrones).

It was tough at first - no pasta, rice, bread or potatoes!! But I dont miss any of it now, have started having a little bit of each very occasionally now that we have stabilised - enjoy the treat, but dont miss them.

Will have to chase down and read some Seneca now!

BTW linked with this discussion is the interesting research of the effect of delaying gratification, I will find a link to what I was reading and post it.

edit - http://jamesclear.com/delayed-gratification

 

[Klogg]

Klogg, my wife and I have been eating what is essentially a variation on a ketogenic diet, we cut most carbs out, not that we had a high carb diet, and have had fantastic results in the 9 months we have been following it. Lost heaps of weight, I am down to 81kg and my waist is under 100cm, mentally it has had a really positive impact, higher energy, better concentration and less sleepy. My wife has seen similar weight loss and also improved health with her chronic condition (Chrones).

It was tough at first - no pasta, rice, bread or potatoes!! But I dont miss any of it now, have started having a little bit of each very occasionally now that we have stabilised - enjoy the treat, but dont miss them.

That's awesome, well done!

I do find that introducing some carbs (low Glycemic Load) is still OK, but white rice/pasta/bread and some fruits will cause huge insulin spikes and make me really hungry.

Also, I have a fear that because I'm eating so much fish, I may be consuming too much mercury. At the moment I eat a lot of smoked salmon, tuna, mackarel and sardines... do you find you have this problem?


Oh and that article is a summary of 'The Marshmallow Test'. Great book, I can't recommend it enough.
If you like "Thinking, Fast and Slow", then this is also for you.

 

[galumay]

That's awesome, well done!

I do find that introducing some carbs (low Glycemic Load) is still OK, but white rice/pasta/bread and some fruits will cause huge insulin spikes and make me really hungry.

Also, I have a fear that because I'm eating so much fish, I may be consuming too much mercury. At the moment I eat a lot of smoked salmon, tuna, mackarel and sardines... do you find you have this problem?


Oh and that article is a summary of 'The Marshmallow Test'. Great book, I can't recommend it enough.
If you like "Thinking, Fast and Slow", then this is also for you.

Thanks Klogg, yes I have seen no impact from adding back in some small amounts of carbs, for me it worked to have none for the first 6 months to really get any appetite or desire for them out of my system.

The fish is not an issue for me, we live in a remote part of tropical Australia and I catch most of what we eat and mercury is not an issue because there is no industry. I still eat plenty of meat as well though.

(sorry GB, we have got a fair way off topic!)