Graduating students - What are your plans?

[cashcow]

Never underestimate a menial job and frugality, take what you can get a job is a job!

Ne'er a truer word spoken.

 

[maffu]

I graduated with a Bachelor of Business with Finance in July, I was unable to get any grad jobs although most of my friends did. I got to quite a few second interviews at IB's and missed out. (I did get offered an accounting role at a business i was working with but did not really want to become a CPA)

I am now doing the Honours degree in 2009 and practicing up on those psychometric tests that get given by the trading and arbitrage firms.

I would be happy to give Para planning a try if I am unable to get any trading/IB positions as Financial Planning seems to be a decent job, very people orientated and lots of planning and strategy which I like. I did 4 Financial Planning subjects at Uni and enjoyed them.

Whether or not there is many IB's taking on grads for 2010 remains to be seen...

 

[Julia]

Yeah I agree 100% with that one. There are no excuses when trying for a job. I'm not in Uni yet but all ready have employment set up with a investment bank in Sydney, who've offered to sponsor my uni fees, and a stock broker or merchant bank in Melbourne. This is because I've got myself out there and shown them what I can do. I've got three things set up, as long as I finish off school well and get a good score I'm basically in the door.

You've got to be able to stand out from the crowd in your own way. These people interview guys all day and all night, they've got to be able to remember you. You better make a damn good impression. Myself, I've started investing young so I can build up a track record and show my interest on paper. I'm also very good at communicating and I think this is a big thing. You've got to be able to talk to people and make people like you. Some people can do it and some can't.

Good luck with the grad programs, I'm sure it will be tough because of the hellish financial environment. Nothing wrong with trying.

Gee whiz, Wonderrman, you must have some powerful connections!
Maybe the old school tie network?
Or be an extraordinarily talented individual.
Will you share which firm is paying for your uni tuition?

 

[wonderrman]

Wondermann, sounds like you have done well for yourself. Care to share how you got this lined up so early? Is it on paper or verbal? I find it hard to imagine that a bank would say 'yes you can have a job in 5 - 6 years time...' (no offence intended)

Yeah no problems. The Sydney IR bank I filled out a questionairre online to get an interview for a graduate program (for a bit of fun obviously I knew I couldn't win cause I'm not in Uni). I got a call from the MD saying that they'll would like me to come up for an interview. I told them I wasn't in Uni and said I only did the questions for a bit of fun and to see how I lined up against others. Since then they've flown down here and I've meet them personally and been up to their office to see what it's like. Keep in touch via email and phone, she sends me books down every now and then.

Obviously nothing is in paper, but its all about building up the relationships and getting my foot in the door. I know the two MD's well now and speak to them often. I have a dialogue with them, they know me well I skip a lot of the grad selection process and get straight into it.

The Melbourne firm I meet while I was on work experience. I really wanted to do work experience with them but couldn't because they're a very small outfit. I meet up with them for lunch though when doing work exp. and spoke to them for a while. I keep in touch with the guy via email. He said they would be more then happy to give me some part time work in my second yr of uni (as long as my grades are good etc.) if they have a spot.

The Melbourne brokerage was were I did work experience. I use them now for my brokerage. I made a good impression and keep in touch with the CIO via email and the MD.

I don't really want to say the names of the firms in such an open forum, but if you really want to know PM me I guess.

More unbelievable that they will pay for his Uni fees. Private sector is a market, plenty of talented individuals. It's not the Public Sector looking at an education as a political goal.

That is only the Sydney firm. They either sponsor it or half sponsor it. This could change though obviously if circumstances change.

Having trading experience at a young age, won't make the slightest difference.

I think I'll disagree with that one. If I was exactly the same as the other candidate but have 5+ yrs in investing, I think the person with the experience would definitely win out, all other things being equal.

 

[wonderrman]

Gee whiz, Wonderrman, you must have some powerful connections!
Maybe the old school tie network?
Or be an extraordinarily talented individual.
Will you share which firm is paying for your uni tuition?

No nothing like the old school network. Dad's works for Toll and mum's a secretary. I think it's because I'm young but been able to do well for my age I guess. Anyway I feel like I'm big noting myself so lets talk about something else now.

 

[MRC & Co]

I think I'll disagree with that one. If I was exactly the same as the other candidate but have 5+ yrs in investing, I think the person with the experience would definitely win out, all other things being equal.

Ceteris Paribus doesn't really apply in the real world, I've seen plenty of guys with little knowledge of the markets, gain employment over far superior traders, due simply to their grades when it comes to grad positions. Sad, but true. For a broker however, being a good salesmen helps a lot. Again, sad, but true.

Either way, good luck to all the new guys graduating. Expect plenty of rejection, that comes with the territory, but keep your head up and your resume floating around to everyone in sight. Someone will give you a shot if you dig hard enough. Just show them how much you want it.

 

[nunthewiser]

Now al ot of u guys know me for my excellent spelling and grammar skills, but a lot of u dont know my other side...........



graduate / dont graduate............ get a piece of paper with ya name on it


you know what i found?

theres no substitite for initiative........... you want the job .....YOU will go get it , just depends on what train of thinking you catch..

has found that the person that presents themselves to me as smart enogh to want the job but smart enognh to present what i need for the job ....is the one that ghets the job


you guys maybe in a more learned world than i dwell but i bet my left nut that those that fill the extra shoe are the ones that end up owning the shoe shop



initiative

amen

 

[doctorj]

initiative

Interesting you say that - I've always found that the 'skill' to be the most desirable (and also least common) amongst graduates I've had on my teams.

I don't want someone that knows everything, but I do want someone with the initiative so they don't need to be led by the hand through everything.

The other thing I love to see is some confidence. This doesn't mean someone that thinks they know everything, but someone that's got the balls to give something a go even when they're operating under imperfect or incomplete information.

By having a crack at something, you've got a basis on which to build.

 

[nunthewiser]

Interesting you say that - I've always found that the 'skill' to be the most desirable (and also least common) amongst graduates I've had on my teams.

I don't want someone that knows everything, but I do want someone with the initiative so they don't need to be led by the hand through everything.

The other thing I love to see is some confidence. This doesn't mean someone that thinks they know everything, but someone that's got the balls to give something a go even when they're operating under imperfect or incomplete information.

By having a crack at something, you've got a basis on which to build.

amen


skill is only a part of it in my book ....most ppl that have got the "nonce " behind them will develop the skills needed ..... bit like that give a bloke some bait and he will catch a fish story that one hears when at the geraldton hotel on a quiet arvo

has hired "qualified "machinery operators in the past that wasnt worth the paper they gave me , have hired lawyers that could only converse there point in a mirror

balls. initiative , passion



lol bugga me im finding 2 words a minute to apply now

 

[prawn_86]

Some good discussions here guys thanks

Anyone out there know how to best prepare for the psych tests?

 

[maffu]

Some good discussions here guys thanks

Anyone out there know how to best prepare for the psych tests?

I found practising lots of them can help. There will be hundreds of websites trying to sell you tests, but you can find plenty of free stuff as well through google and company sites that have sample questions.

I do know a guy who spent cash online and did plenty of IQ and Psych tests in the months leading up to interviews and ended up passing one of the hardest Arbitrage firms testing and got a 100k grad job. So its up to you if you would want to pay money to get better quality practise.
I like sticking to the freebies.

Although the Pysch tests that come down to personality characteristics, well you can not really practise them. Its just the Maths and IQ test ones that can be practised.

 

[sammy84]

Some good discussions here guys thanks

Anyone out there know how to best prepare for the psych tests?

Do only one practice then forget about it. They are designed so that they cannot be practiced or learnt.

I'm not to sure about Wonderman's story. No firm was named. From what I know most of the co-op places programs in both IB's and professional services have been suspended indefinitely.

 

[wonderrman]

Do only one practice then forget about it. They are designed so that they cannot be practiced or learnt.

I'm not to sure about Wonderman's story. No firm was named. From what I know most of the co-op places programs in both IB's and professional services have been suspended indefinitely.

Believe me or not i don't really care. I know it's the truth and thats all that matters to me. I have named the firm to someone whose asked as well mate (via PM).

 

[ROE]

Thought this deserved its own thread.

Im graduating at the end of this yr, with a Finance and a Marketing degree. Im a realist so i know the job market isnt good, and not likely to get much better by then.

To those also graduating soon what are your plans? And why?

To those already in the workforce, any advice/opinions?

Never fear , having a degree and skills is only half the job the other qualities are

1. Work hard
2. Show them that you are willing and able to take on tackles jobs that isn't necessary fit in your role.
3. Be a good sport, don't be cocky and fit in with the team.

Don't under-estimate those qualities, you be surprise that those qualities usually get you the job rather than your degree and experience.

Once you have those reputation, people just offer you jobs through network of people that work with your previously.

 

[prawn_86]

Thought i would bump this thread again as its now the time when most final year students start finding out if they have got into grad programs.

Any one had any luck? Or have you been forced to change your plans?

I know myself personally i lowered my expectations before i even started applying and i applied for as much as i could, at a rate of about 1 or 2 a day while the apps were open. I have been rejected for a heap of them already.

We (my partner and i) are now considering a few different options for if i dont happen to get a job and looking at serious alternatives.

What are other experiences so far?

 

[ojm]

What are other experiences so far?

I'm currently on a year of work experience, so I guess I'm pretty lucky that I'm not looking for a job now. However, if the market is terrible this time next year still, I will struggle to secure a job (I'm doing engineering - mining: dead, manufacturing: dead).

I've decided if that is the case, I will either:

- do masters or similar related to engineering
- maybe do a Finance or business degree 'cos I'm quite interested in that (not sure if there is many places that'd want Eng/Finance etc tho and if it'd make me more desirable or whatnot)
- work full time in unrelated field and keep looking (I've got quite a bit of experience in warehousing environments, so should be able to at least get a low level job there [which generally pay good], or better yet supervisor/team leader role)
- travel overseas (family in UK, USA and South Africa - gotta go see 'em all one day!).

Best of luck.

 

[doctorj]

I'm- maybe do a Finance or business degree 'cos I'm quite interested in that (not sure if there is many places that'd want Eng/Finance etc tho and if it'd make me more desirable or whatnot)

This isn't a bad idea at all. After the mathematics in an engineering degree, finance will be a walk over. Overload and do it quickly, or consider a post graduate qualification of some sort.

The combined degree is valuable, but its exact application of it will vary depending on your engineering specialism.

Engineering qualifications are applicable to investment banking and in particular project finance. Several of the most experienced project finance guys here in London were originally BP engineers on the early North Sea Oil projects.

 

[starwars_guy456]

Law student here, Monash Uni, in my final year.

Job market is very hard to crack into at the moment, I've heard stories of law firms either:

-Cutting half their intake, and
-Deferring staff for a year, and
-Offloading staff

Been applying for heaps of graduate positions, doesn't look like I'll even get an interview though...

I'm in the midst of applying for government positions now, a job in Canberra is a job after all!

Regards
-Ed

 

[prawn_86]

We are thinking of possibly buying a cheap motor home and travelling around Aus for a few months.

Only thing im worried about is trying to pick up work along the way, with the job market the way it is, people are probably not going to have much work for others who are just passing through...

Have started a thread on the travel forum also:
http://www.aussietravellersforum.com.au/forums/showthread.php?p=1019#post1019

 

[JTLP]

LOL is all I can say.

I got myself a cheap ticket...leaving for Europe again mid year...don't know when I'll be home...don't care really. Job market is shot, grad positions are shot...the sky is falling ra ra ra.

I'm young and there is nothing I can do about this mess. I have no obligations (being only 22), I've got my life ahead of me and why not visit friends overseas and be happy when everybody has a doom and gloom mentality. By the time I come back things may have improved, I can get a menial job, work my way up and into a position and crack through the system this way. I don't see grad positions getting any easier...I actually see them getting harder with the backlog of people graduating and not finding work. There is more then 1 way to climb the mountain...

On a side note Prawn...perhaps you could do fruit picking around Australia or something of that ilk? I am planning to drop into France and pick grapes...awesome fun (although hard work), free accomm and food, 100 euro a day and you meet some great people.